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I have a question. I was looking around the net and I ran into this school called Twin Air Helicopters. Has any one heard of them or gone there? There website is http://www.twinair.net

 

The offer you 500 hours for about the same price as every other school out there.

 

I was just wondering. Look forward to your responses if there are any.

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That's right. PBH's newest instructor!

 

NO, the heli and pilot were not from PBH and I don't want to write on here who it was. However, I hear that the pilot was flying without the governor on and got into a low RPM condition. He lowered collective first before rolling on throttle. The correlator in the Robinson helis are so good and when lowering the collective he actually decreased his RPM even lower, beyond what rolling on could recover.

 

Lesson: Roll on throttle first OR as you are lowering collective! "Simultaneously lovin baby"

 

Congrats, I am from around that area. I have a condo near the beach in Ft Lauderdale.

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I am taking lessons at Airwest Helicopters in Glendale Az, flying the enstrom f28f. I am doing their professional pilot program and very happy with the options available to me. Instructors are awesome as well as their maintenance.

 

 

Wow the schools prices are really cheep, It looks like the only platform you train in is the Enstrom. Is that right?

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And what is the cost between R22 and the S300 hr rate?

 

I think the two closest schools to LGB with a 300 are Western in Ontario and Group 3 at VNY. It's usually 50-75 an hour more for the 300 time.

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  • 3 months later...

Ive noticed alot of chatter on here about schools in California or in Florida, but non one has mentioned how important mountain time is. I am working on my CFI at Silverhawk Aviation in Caldwell Idaho, and we do almost nothing but "mountain time". I would recomend anyone who is looking for excellent training done safely and cost effective for mountian flying this is the school. I researched alot of other schools that offer "mountain flying" as an extra class, but Im strapped for cash as it is, I am half way through my CFI now, have about 135 hours of mountain time logged, have 200 hours total right now, and have spent $58,000! and I am right at the average money level for Silverhawk Students. Don't feel like you should pass up a school because it is cheaper and represents worse training. Jerry Timble Helicopters is super affordable and he gives awesome instruction. Silverhawk can not be recommened any higher, get real flying experience and try an landing on some of the mountains here in Idaho, or in some of our canyons. Not to mention cheaper rates $248/hour dule instruction, includes fuel, insturctor, everything.

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Not to be contrarian, more curiuos about the perspective than anything.......but just how important is mountain time?

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Ive noticed alot of chatter on here about schools in California or in Florida, but non one has mentioned how important mountain time is.

 

Check some other threads, there is one called high altitude training that discusses that topic in great, painful detail. At least the first page or sp does

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The way I see it, when you are flying a Robsinson at high DA's you need to be very smooth and know how to manage power. When I went to the Robinson course in Torrence, flying was a breeze, I was able to do perfect 180 autos, full downs, ect.. Everything at sea level just slowed down for me, and at that point I realaized how lucky I was to train where I am training. People think complex airspace is something that is so essential, but you can sit in an office and practice that or listen to live ATC. But to go and land in some confines or pinnacles up at 7000 feet, that is a challenge. Some think that this is overtly dangerous, but it is because they have not flown in this environment before. Our cheif pilot has somehting like 3000 hours of mountain time flying utility and fire contracts, we learn some absolutly awesome things and we learn them safely, You know where your wind is at all times, you know you will have to double check in-ground and out of ground effect charts prior to your flight. You have to be exact with weight and balance, as well as know your weather. Every time we go out, we have to pull together all of our training to make each flight work. As a result, I am that much more proficient at reading charts, reading weather, judging wind, knowing the limitiations of the helicopter, I think that all of that training will keep me alive in the future. So that is why I think that mountain time is important.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ive noticed alot of chatter on here about schools in California or in Florida, but non one has mentioned how important mountain time is. I am working on my CFI at Silverhawk Aviation in Caldwell Idaho, and we do almost nothing but "mountain time". I would recomend anyone who is looking for excellent training done safely and cost effective for mountian flying this is the school. I researched alot of other schools that offer "mountain flying" as an extra class, but Im strapped for cash as it is, I am half way through my CFI now, have about 135 hours of mountain time logged, have 200 hours total right now, and have spent $58,000! and I am right at the average money level for Silverhawk Students. Don't feel like you should pass up a school because it is cheaper and represents worse training. Jerry Timble Helicopters is super affordable and he gives awesome instruction. Silverhawk can not be recommened any higher, get real flying experience and try an landing on some of the mountains here in Idaho, or in some of our canyons. Not to mention cheaper rates $248/hour dule instruction, includes fuel, insturctor, everything.

 

Can you tell us what criteria you use to log as mountain time? I know others that have trained at Silverhawk and did not log all that much mountain time. How many t/os & landings did you log as mountain time?

Also, can you tell us how much time you used for Private, IFR, Commercial Certificates.

KEUL is 2,431msl so how do you get to do "almost nothing but" mountain time.

I used to base in Hailey, Id. KSUN 5,318msl in the summers, travel forth and back to KBOI above 9,000+msl, and did not log mountain time.

 

Thanks for any info you can give to verify Silverhawk as a mountain flying location.

 

Mike

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The way I see it, when you are flying a Robsinson at high DA's you need to be very smooth and know how to manage power. When I went to the Robinson course in Torrence, flying was a breeze, I was able to do perfect 180 autos, full downs, ect.. Everything at sea level just slowed down for me, and at that point I realaized how lucky I was to train where I am training. People think complex airspace is something that is so essential, but you can sit in an office and practice that or listen to live ATC. But to go and land in some confines or pinnacles up at 7000 feet, that is a challenge. Some think that this is overtly dangerous, but it is because they have not flown in this environment before. Our cheif pilot has somehting like 3000 hours of mountain time flying utility and fire contracts, we learn some absolutly awesome things and we learn them safely, You know where your wind is at all times, you know you will have to double check in-ground and out of ground effect charts prior to your flight. You have to be exact with weight and balance, as well as know your weather. Every time we go out, we have to pull together all of our training to make each flight work. As a result, I am that much more proficient at reading charts, reading weather, judging wind, knowing the limitiations of the helicopter, I think that all of that training will keep me alive in the future. So that is why I think that mountain time is important.

 

You dont have much experience in complex airspace do you? Enjoy your first flight into the LA basin on a marginal day! I would say your chances of being paid to do that early on in your career will be far more likely than you doing a confined area landing at 7000.

You may be learning some valuable skills, but I would caution you highly that your probably not at the level you think you are. The few times I've been asked about my small amount of mountain time, it wasn't about how many pinnacles or confined area approaches I've made, or how many canyons I've flown over, it was "What kind of work were you doing up there?" In real life, people don't just go out and shoot approaches to a hover and then drop off the side and gain airspeed and fly away. They actually work at those altitudes usually OGE. I hate to sound like a jerk, but one day when your out of a training environment, and away from all the instructors standing around telling you how awesome your experience is, you will probably look back one day and chuckle to yourself when you look at what you used to log as "Mountain Time". Actually, I know you will. Because I was in the same boat. In my certificate training, I probably logged about 10hrs of "mountain training". If it wasn't in pen I would probably erase it! When I started doing what I do now, several times in my mountain training as low as 2500-4000ft, I landed a few times after a training session with our unit instructor with my hands shaking. And that was in a 500E with an R+ engine stripped out and low on gas. Maybe Im just a weenie. So again, just take it easy when you throw out "135hrs of mountain time".

 

Anyway..... As far as schools. Western Helicopters in Rialto CA is top notch. One of the few school/companies I know of who's web site is ACTUALLY their stuff. Ive attended probably 6 flight schools for various levels of training. The instructors really are multi-thousand hour CFIs, retired military, 40+ year fire and utility pilots. I go down every 6 months for FTDAs. Its not uncommon at all to be down there with LE pilots from multiple state, federal and local agencies who are there for different types of training. Also, utility pilots doing long line refresher training, and other skill training. When we use their 500D for FTDAs, we land, and after the course its not uncommon at all for the instructor to walk away from me, and walk right into the classroom with a beginning private pilot student taking their first flight in their 300C. Easy going atmosphere.

Edited by Flying Pig
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The way I see it, when you are flying a Robsinson at high DA's you need to be very smooth and know how to manage power. When I went to the Robinson course in Torrence, flying was a breeze, I was able to do perfect 180 autos, full downs, ect.. Everything at sea level just slowed down for me, and at that point I realaized how lucky I was to train where I am training. People think complex airspace is something that is so essential, but you can sit in an office and practice that or listen to live ATC. But to go and land in some confines or pinnacles up at 7000 feet, that is a challenge. Some think that this is overtly dangerous, but it is because they have not flown in this environment before. Our cheif pilot has somehting like 3000 hours of mountain time flying utility and fire contracts, we learn some absolutly awesome things and we learn them safely, You know where your wind is at all times, you know you will have to double check in-ground and out of ground effect charts prior to your flight. You have to be exact with weight and balance, as well as know your weather. Every time we go out, we have to pull together all of our training to make each flight work. As a result, I am that much more proficient at reading charts, reading weather, judging wind, knowing the limitiations of the helicopter, I think that all of that training will keep me alive in the future. So that is why I think that mountain time is important.

 

I often vacation in a mountainous metropolitan area and when I do, I rarely, if ever, see a helicopter fly by. Conversely, I live in suburb just outside a major metropolitan area and I see at least 3 helicopters flying over my house just about every day. What this mean to a new guy? Train where the jobs are. Don't train where the jobs aren't. Any flight school can teach you to be a superpilot extraordinaire able to squeeze a R22 in a crevasse at 10k with zero visibility and winds gusting to 50. However, once you graduate and walk out the door with your shiny new CFII diploma, who you gonna know? Bambi, Tigger and Smokey the Bear?

 

Everyone knows (or should know) networking is the key to advancement. And no, phone calls, email, text messages or sending a resume constitutes networking. It's face-to-face, first name basis, know the dog's name type of networking (in professional circles it's known as interpersonal relationships). Being a superpilot means diddly........

Edited by Spike
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I often vacation in a mountainous metropolitan area and when I do, I rarely, if ever, see a helicopter fly by. Conversely, I live in suburb just outside a major metropolitan area and I see at least 3 helicopters flying over my house just about every day. What this mean to a new guy? Train where the jobs are. Don't train where the jobs aren't. Any flight school can teach you to be a superpilot extraordinaire able to squeeze a R22 in a crevasse at 10k with zero visibility and winds gusting to 50. However, once you graduate and walk out the door with your shiny new CFII diploma, who you gonna know? Bambi, Tigger and Smokey the Bear?

 

Everyone knows (or should know) networking is the key to advancement. And no, phone calls, email, text messages or sending a resume constitutes networking. It's face-to-face, first name basis, know the dog's name type of networking (in professional circles it's known as interpersonal relationships). Being a superpilot means diddly........

 

My first pilot interview outside of LE flying was for a part time gig with a local operator. I was referred to him by another local civilian operator. The first time I met him we spent about 2 hrs standing in his hangar next to his UH-1 discussing politics, common friends, local issues, whether or not I support the current presidential administration, what was my knowledge of the local area related to Ag issues. We didnt even talk about flying. I had practically memorized the UH-1 POH to prep for the meeting! All the temps, pressures, start sequence, EP's. As we were wrapping it up, I asked him if needed to see my log book or anything. His comment was "Nahhh, if he referred you to me then I know you can fly. I dont really care how many hours you have. We'll get some dual in on some jobs and Ill see how you do."

After my 2-3rd flight with him we were just shooting the breeze on the way home. There was a long comfortable silence with us just thumping along in his Huey enjoying the calm night following the freeway and he blurts out, "OK, so I pay $30 an hour. Anything special or overnight we'll discuss on a case by case. You still interested?" I agreed. A couple weeks later I got a check in the mail for the time he had spent with me on the first 3 flights. My interview was basically him wanting to know if he could tolerate me sitting next to him and to see if I could be trusted to make HIM money!

Edited by Flying Pig
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You dont have much experience in complex airspace do you? Enjoy your first flight into the LA basin on a marginal day! I would say your chances of being paid to do that early on in your career will be far more likely than you doing a confined area landing at 7000.

You may be learning some valuable skills, but I would caution you highly that your probably not at the level you think you are. The few times I've been asked about my small amount of mountain time, it wasn't about how many pinnacles or confined area approaches I've made, or how many canyons I've flown over, it was "What kind of work were you doing up there?" In real life, people don't just go out and shoot approaches to a hover and then drop off the side and gain airspeed and fly away. They actually work at those altitudes usually OGE. I hate to sound like a jerk, but one day when your out of a training environment, and away from all the instructors standing around telling you how awesome your experience is, you will probably look back one day and chuckle to yourself when you look at what you used to log as "Mountain Time". Actually, I know you will. Because I was in the same boat. In my certificate training, I probably logged about 10hrs of "mountain training". If it wasn't in pen I would probably erase it! When I started doing what I do now, several times in my mountain training as low as 2500-4000ft, I landed a few times after a training session with our unit instructor with my hands shaking. And that was in a 500E with an R+ engine stripped out and low on gas. Maybe Im just a weenie. So again, just take it easy when you throw out "135hrs of mountain time".

 

Anyway..... As far as schools. Western Helicopters in Rialto CA is top notch. One of the few school/companies I know of who's web site is ACTUALLY their stuff. Ive attended probably 6 flight schools for various levels of training. The instructors really are multi-thousand hour CFIs, retired military, 40+ year fire and utility pilots. I go down every 6 months for FTDAs. Its not uncommon at all to be down there with LE pilots from multiple state, federal and local agencies who are there for different types of training. Also, utility pilots doing long line refresher training, and other skill training. When we use their 500D for FTDAs, we land, and after the course its not uncommon at all for the instructor to walk away from me, and walk right into the classroom with a beginning private pilot student taking their first flight in their 300C. Easy going atmosphere.

I don't know why people get so hostile on these things. Sure I know that I have obvious limitations as a new pilot, but this is a forum where we just add to the conversation. All I was saying, which I thought was obvious, was that flying at higher elevations made flying at sea level much easier. I am throwing numbers out there not to impress, but just give reference as to how much that we fly in the mountians. We do spend a good chunck of our training there. Yeah 135 hours is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but when you are a student training up to 200 hours, then it means alot. I'm not sure how these points missed you. You seem like you have good advice and are well intentioned, but at the same time, how does the obvious escape you? And FYI, alot of these words are not from just a 200 hour pilot, but have been relayed from pilots with 5-10k hours, mountain time of course.

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  • 2 months later...

I’ve written a text for my school which could help some fellow European students to find their way;

 

 

My initial research on licensing and costs began on forums. Since I’m an EU citizen, I would need a EASA license (formerly JAA). It became clear fairly quick that the cost of training in Europe was excessive. So excessive, that it would be cheaper first to complete training in the USA and then convert FAA license to EASA once returning to Europe. In addition to tuition savings, I preferred the method of flight and ground training in the USA. Flight training starts sooner in the US and there is less ground than in Europe. This allows new students to make faster and more comprehensive connections by nearly simultaneous application of ground theory and flight practice. I figured that by becoming a FAA rated pilot first, my built up knowledge and experience would make EASA theory easier to apply.

From this decision to get licensed first in the USA I had two options. One option would be to pursue a combined FAA and EASA license where available. Alternatively I could first acquire FAA license, accumulate remainder of 1000 hours as US instructor, and then pursue EASA license completing written exams and corresponding flights and flight checks.

As expensive as it is to become a pilot, it was important to me to have a high standard of instruction. In the US, schools operate under two designations; FAA Part 61 and FAA Part 141. Basically anyone can open a school and start operating under FAA Part 61, there are fewer regulations and little oversight. To operate under FAA Part 141 schools must apply and have their training courses approved by the FAA, they then must continually meet standards and are strictly overseen. Clearly the ‘141’ schools were the best option for someone looking for a reputable school.

Of the ‘141’ schools I considered I narrowed down my options to the three top rated ones for quality instruction; Mauna Loa Helicopters (MLH, Hawaii), Bristow Helicopters (Florida), and Hillsboro (Oregon). In evaluating these schools, I sought the best balance in instruction, enrollment size, weather, location, and costs.

Both MLH and Hillsboro give one on one instruction, allowing me to set the pace and tailor my experience to my personal learning style. Bristow, on the other hand, gives ground in group sessions, where I am forced to adapt to a fixed schedule, pace, and learning style that may not suit me.

Following with that same desire for an individual experience, I didn’t want a large school that would perceive me as just another number. A smaller school would more likely be closely involved and more committed to my success. MLH being medium sized was the only school small enough to meet my standards for a personal learning environment.

In terms of physical environment, weather and terrain are important factors for flying. I wanted to be able to fly in ideal VFR conditions almost daily. Of the three locations the weather in Kona, Hawaii (MLH) appeared perfect for flying while conditions in Hillsboro, Oregon (Hillsboro) were poor for the majority of the year, and Florida (Bristow) had conditions somewhere between those two extremes. Oregon’s bad weather led me to drop Hillsboro, and further debate MLH and Bristow. Hawaii has a varied terrain with its surrounding ocean, volcanic mountains, high winds, unique nature, and class B airspace. Bristow in costal Florida is also oceanfront, however flat it provides a less challenging topography.

In addition to flying, I wanted a desirable living environment. Hawaii uniquely appealed to me for surfing, hiking and all the other outdoorsy activities available.

Ultimately one of the largest factors was cost; already I had confirmed that either of the schools have suitable environments and excellent programs but I wanted to maximize my dollar.

In most aspects MLH has the lowest rates including individual grounds, simulator (needed for instrument training) and R22 hourly. The R22 hourly rate at MLH is about 10% cheaper than Bristow. On the other hand Bristow R44 hourly cost about 10% less than MLH. Since most of my training would be done in the smaller R22 helicopter, which is always cheaper than the R44, MLH would come out as the more cost effective of the two.

For my EASA licensing, I found the cheapest route to be distance-learning courses through www.captonline.com. The distance-learning EASA ATPL(H) ground course cost $3,600 USD (2250 British Pounds) whereas the ground course through Bristow is $17,000 USD. The distance-learning course is self-study consisting of 3 modules. A consolidation course of one week is required after module 1 and module 2+3. Those consolidation courses can be done through Skype, so no extra travel expenses are involved. With such a cost difference and the ability to take the distance-learning course remotely I found this option the obvious choice giving me the most freedom.

Cheaper rates at MLH and a self-study course through captonline made MLH the most cost effective way to go.

I choose to go with MLH for its great one-on-one teaching environment, superior flying conditions, unique living environment, and relative cost savings.

Overall MLH was the best fit for me. I hope sharing my decision making process helps future students with their decision.

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  • 3 months later...

Had a great time at FSANA conference in Orlando this week. As a CFI in an a small helo school in Tx I did not expect the helo support but was surprised to have speakers like Lyn Burks and Randy Rowles along with reps like Pam Landis and Debbie Sparks to represent the rotorcraft flight school industry. We at Veracity greatly greatly appreciate the opportunity to be able to see all aspects and learn from the flight instruction communityon how to grow and sustain our business and create great pilots for the future. Much appreciated.

Eric

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've read through this thread and want to know if anyone has current (2013) info regarding the following schools:

 

Hillsboro

Quantum

Longhorn

Bristow (Titusville)

 

I am doing research on obtaining additional helicopter ratings (IH and CFII) with the hope of being hired as an instructor once training is done. Obviously, that means a larger, busy school.

 

Thanks

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I would highly recommend Bristow Academy. I received my training at the Concord, CA facility [which has unfortunately closed]. The assistant chief pilot was my primary instructor; she is to this day one of the most professional and talented pilots I have had the privilege of flying with.

 

She is now the Chief Pilot of Bristow, Titusville. And I know that she is working her butt off to turn a great school into one of the best [if not the best] in the country.

 

Some will complain that Tituseville is a "pilot factory" and that you are "just a number". Unfortunately, you sometimes feel forgotten in a large school. However, overall, Bristow has a great reputation and a great program.

 

Great instructors, a solid maintenance program w/ lots of resources, & standardization [which means consistency]. Plus a huge student body, w/ a high turn-over rate [which is critical for the new CFI trying to get their foot in the door].

 

Every school will have some issues [aircraft/instructor availability, policies that you may not agree w/, etc, etc]. If you go to Bristow, you'll have your fair share of frustrations. But you'll have similar frustrations at any other school.

 

Bottom line, the training I received has served me well. Ultimately, I thank my instructor more than the school itself. But it is a good school.

 

I would like to note that I have not visited nor do I know any of the staff at the New Iberia facility. I would assume that since it carries the Bristow name it hold the standards of Bristow-Titusville. Someone else with better insight will have to confirm or dispute that though.

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I would highly recommend Bristow Academy. I received my training at the Concord, CA facility [which has unfortunately closed]. The assistant chief pilot was my primary instructor; she is to this day one of the most professional and talented pilots I have had the privilege of flying with.

 

She is now the Chief Pilot of Bristow, Titusville. And I know that she is working her butt off to turn a great school into one of the best [if not the best] in the country.

 

Some will complain that Tituseville is a "pilot factory" and that you are "just a number". Unfortunately, you sometimes feel forgotten in a large school. However, overall, Bristow has a great reputation and a great program.

 

Great instructors, a solid maintenance program w/ lots of resources, & standardization [which means consistency]. Plus a huge student body, w/ a high turn-over rate [which is critical for the new CFI trying to get their foot in the door].

 

Every school will have some issues [aircraft/instructor availability, policies that you may not agree w/, etc, etc]. If you go to Bristow, you'll have your fair share of frustrations. But you'll have similar frustrations at any other school.

 

Bottom line, the training I received has served me well. Ultimately, I thank my instructor more than the school itself. But it is a good school.

 

I would like to note that I have not visited nor do I know any of the staff at the New Iberia facility. I would assume that since it carries the Bristow name it hold the standards of Bristow-Titusville. Someone else with better insight will have to confirm or dispute that though.

 

I've visited Bristow's Academy in New Iberia and it appears to be a solid operation. Obviously, since they are based near the GoM, they probably a bit more focused on CFI's moving on that type of work, compared to Titusville.

 

The trouble with Bristow is for those who already possess the CFI but not CFII ratings. From their website and info provided by Admissions, they don't hire CFI's who obtained their rating from another school, only those who received both the CFI and CFII from Bristow. I don't necessarily agree with their philosophy but it is what it is. Additionally, when I visited New Iberia, the CFI I spoke with received all his ratings from Bristow and waited over a year for a position to open up at that facility. Finally, from what he said, they won't be needing CFI's there for at least 6-9 months (as of early 2013).

 

Good luck!

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  • 5 months later...

My company was mentioned in the second post of this thread that started in 2008. A student from Sweden recently asked for an update, is it still all true? We still have hired every instructor that has come through our school (most without the CFI or IR ratings as we fly on VFR sunny days) and have transition many that have gotten CFI's at other schools to jobs with us as we do at least three times as much photo as we do PRIMARY flight instruction. Many of the schools on this thread have changed ownership/gone out of business/closed as referenced in the previous post. . All schools hire from within but only our school has hired everybody and this is important to you if you aren't the one that is hired. At most schools, the Americans get hired first or those with with advanced ratings but we just had our Myrtle Beach pilot hired at 850 hours to fly a turbine and he didn't have an IR rating and I seem to recall he wasn't even working for us a full 12 months. We hire at 300 hours and you have to have at least 100 hours on our contract be we hire everyone. We are also still an advertiser, too. If you have any questions I remain at 561-346-2816.

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