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Q:hotdoggin


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how dangerous do you really experianced pilots think hotdoggin is??

 

 

I think the question is quite obvious and doesn't really require an experienced pilot to answer.

 

Yes....Hotdoggin is dangerous.

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Deadly dangerous...

Here is a good link...

Watched the Robinson videos yet? Check out the safety class. There are a couple of videos that could be definitely be considered hotdogging that follow with the inevitable.

And there are NTSB reports to back it up. I personally have two *ex* acquaintances not alive to talk about the dangers hotdogging. If they could talk about it, it might not be as effective as this note. Presuming it is taken seriously...

Ask my friend's widow, who was sued by a surviving passenger for her husband's entire estate (everything she had, and the second time widowed). ...Because he had kept a journal on the incompetent pilot that was "hotdogging" to whistle blow him. ...Leaving her and the kids mostly penniless... He wasn't even the pilot, but made the decisions of riding along just one time, and delaying exposing his journal...

Hotdogging hurts our insurance premiums to say the least, not to mention families of pilots & passengers, and the reputation of what we are passionate about. Part of the cost of what we pay in the high insurance premiums is due to hotdogging. Never mind the press eats it up... Think twice before considering it.

Is hotdogging dangerous? I consider that to be a true/false question in regards to the answer without middle ground.

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Thank you for the reply,it was taken seriously. You can bet that when i get my pilots license i won't go out there and immediately start acting like a hotshot!

 

I'm disturbed by this comment "i won't go out there and immediately start acting like a hotshot!"

 

You should never start acting like a hotshot. True professionals fly as safe as possible all of the time. As previously mentioned:

 

Insurance Rates go up.

 

Hour requirements go up.

 

Pilots get killed when acting like a hotshot.

 

Passengers get killed when acting like a hotshot.

 

 

 

Here are a couple things to remember since you are just starting out.

 

A helicopter is a tool like a chainsaw. You don't go swinging it around like a hotshot, because in the end, it will bite you in the a*s. You need to respect it.

 

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are very few old bold pilots.

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Thank you for the reply,it was taken seriously. You can bet that when i get my pilots license i won't go out there and immediately start acting like a hotshot!

to:scott83 i am disturbed that you were disturbed by my comment,to clear this up when i stated i would not go out there and immediately "start acting like some hotshot",i meant that i would NOT act like a hotshot, AT ALL!

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to:scott83 i am disturbed that you were disturbed by my comment,to clear this up when i stated i would not go out there and immediately "start acting like some hotshot",i meant that i would NOT act like a hotshot, AT ALL!

 

 

I'm sorry that I get concerned when someone first posts a question asking high timed pilots if it's really dangerous to be hotdoggin, then follows up by saying that you won't "immediately" act like a hotshot. You have to understand that if you are out there flying like that, it not only affects yourself, but it affects all of the other helicopter pilots out there working, including myself. I hope you are serious when you say that you will not act like a hotshot at all.

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I'm sorry that I get concerned when someone first posts a question asking high timed pilots if it's really dangerous to be hotdoggin, then follows up by saying that you won't "immediately" act like a hotshot. You have to understand that if you are out there flying like that, it not only affects yourself, but it affects all of the other helicopter pilots out there working, including myself. I hope you are serious when you say that you will not act like a hotshot at all.

I do understand(and have for sometime now), i asked the question about hotdoggin because other people i have talked to all had different ideas about the danger in doing it. I was satisfied with the answer i got on this website because it seemed that most of the people here are very experianced pilots,most of the people i had talked to were younger and inexperianced.

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  • 4 weeks later...

While I know that this accident is fixed wing, it is recent and in my area. It played hell with aviation in the media and that hurts all segments of the flying community.

 

Roseville, CA accident...

 

Within just couple of weeks of the accident AOPA held a safety seminar in Sacramento for pilots to remind everyone on the dangers of this type of activity.

 

Doug

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I have a question to ask about military flight. Why do military helicopters frequently fly extremally low and fast in and around congested areas? And why are pilots told to fly hard do to dull missions?

 

It is difficult to reply to your accusations without being given a specific example with facts to back it up. In 23 years in the service, I was never asked to do anything that remotely resembles what you are implying. To the contrary, when accused of doing anything like this (I was guilty on a couple of occasions early in my career when flying jets) I got a good ass chewing from the commanding officer. Military aircraft are still governed by the altitude restrictions spelled out in FAR 91.119, so flying low over a congested area is frowned upon.

 

Military flying is at times dangerous enough on its own without having to make it more difficult just because someone wants to spice up a dull mission. Military pilots train to the limits of the performance envelope of the aircraft we fly, so that when we need the maximum capabilities of our aircraft in combat, we know what to expect from our machine. Some in the civilian sector see this as hot-dogging, showboating, and dangerous; I call it being able to get the maximum out of my helicopter so that I can survive in a combat situation and make it home in one piece.

 

I hope that this answers your question.

 

Doug

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ohhhhhh boy,i've done it again :wacko: i am NOT accusing anyone,i swear,just asking a question. I have heard about military pilots being told to fly hard and wound up crashing because of it(don't know where or when). I was simply trying to get more info on it. As to military helios flying low and fast in and around congested areas,that comes from having them zoom over my house quite often(maybe thats because i live between ft.knox and ft.campbell) But in no way am i saying that military pilots are irresponsible or anything like that. in the name of all thats holy!

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This high time pilot paid the ultimate price for hot dogging. He left behind a wife and 5 children.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satel...d=1137834456407

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...228X00245&key=1

 

 

I've known the pilot that was killed in this crash since I was in 3rd grade. We went to grade school together and our dads worked together for about 25 years or so. He was by all accounts an excellent pilot. It's a terrible shame he got caught up in showing off. Just shows how unsafe hotdogging is, no matter how experienced you are.

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  • 1 year later...

For the sake of everyone here who read this I just want to make sure you didn't misunderstand. I do know that hotdogging is very dangerous and shouldn't be done,when I asked the question I was really just wondering how all the pilots here viewed it. So,if I gave anyone a fright because they thought there would soon be a crazy new pilot who likes to hotdog.........I apologize.

Again,I asked the question to see how it was viewed with the veteran pilots,not because I want to hotdog.

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Flying since '68. Started in the Army, with the requisite VietNam experience. I'm trained in low-level and nap of the earth operation, and lots of other fun things. I don't "hot dog".

Briefly, I worked with a couple of ag pilots. In case you're not familiar, aerial application guys spend their careers with the skids inches off the ground. Neither one of them would "hot dog".

If you're ever tempted to show off, remember this- if your audience is impressed by a hot dog, they're not smart enough to appreciate a really good pilot. Let them go to Six Flags. Heck, go with'em. On the other hand, you'll make exactly the WRONG impression on professionals.

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how dangerous do you really experianced pilots think hotdoggin is??

 

I'm not that experienced but I know it's dangerous enough to kill you and whoever you involve, that should be enough.

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As to military helios flying low and fast in and around congested areas,that comes from having them zoom over my house quite often(maybe thats because i live between ft.knox and ft.campbell)
If you live in Greenville, there is an Army National Guard training area that both the helicopters from Fort Campbell and Fort Knox use as an additional training area. I remember it being "between" those two posts.
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I agree that hotdoggin' in anything usually gets you in major trouble...

 

However...just a thought to add...

 

How about stunt pilots...(movies, air shows, etc.) Does it just look like hotdoggin' to us non-experienced newbs? Are they inside of the parameters of safety for the machines they are operating? It seems to me they might be "pushing the envelope" of safety. Is hotdoggin' considered part of their job? How do they fit in to this question?

 

Just wonderin'

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I agree that hotdoggin' in anything usually gets you in major trouble...

 

However...just a thought to add...

 

How about stunt pilots...(movies, air shows, etc.) Does it just look like hotdoggin' to us non-experienced newbs? Are they inside of the parameters of safety for the machines they are operating? It seems to me they might be "pushing the envelope" of safety. Is hotdoggin' considered part of their job? How do they fit in to this question?

 

Just wonderin'

 

 

 

Thats a very good question,Z! I'm curious about that too.

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I agree that hotdoggin' in anything usually gets you in major trouble...

 

However...just a thought to add...

 

How about stunt pilots...(movies, air shows, etc.) Does it just look like hotdoggin' to us non-experienced newbs? Are they inside of the parameters of safety for the machines they are operating? It seems to me they might be "pushing the envelope" of safety. Is hotdoggin' considered part of their job? How do they fit in to this question?

 

Just wonderin'

 

I guess pilots who do that type of flying find the risk/reward calculation acceptable and the flights are done under controlled conditions without risk to unwitting passengers/public. To me "hotdoggin" is performing risky maneuvers where the only reward is excitement or ego gratification. Just my POV.

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Don't forget that movie stunts can be designed and amplified by camera angle, editing, etc etc etc. Basically, don't believe everything you see. I'm sure those guys do a heck of a lot of hurry-up-and-wait for a lame flyby scene at 60KIAS s & l that ends up looking like a crazy chase with all sorts of limit-pushing maneuvers. They must laugh when they see the end product on the big screen. B)

Edited by heligirl03
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I know that the "hollywood" factor is involved...and stunts can be "amplified" however...they are obviously stunts in quite a few movies and air shows...

 

I'm sure they practice the stunt relentlessly and make calculations that evaluate the risk involved. They are obviously confident and comfortable with the risk.

 

I just wanted to hear what others thought about it....maybe some of you may know a "stunt" pilot.

 

However...I maintain my position and agree with the jist of this thread that hotdoggin' is like russian roulette...and you're never sure where the hot end of the gun will be pointing when it goes off...

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