Flying for BoatPix

[jdrockin]

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for months and I finally have something to post about! Anyway, I've been trying for years to fly helicopters and things are (hopefully) coming into focus. I've got my school picked out (local), I'm working on financing, but I'm looking at different ways to build hours. I've seen ads for Boatpix flying but I couldn't find any threads about them(Excuse me if I missed them). Are they a good company? Is it a gimmick? What are the requirements? Has anyone flown for them before? Do you log enough hours? Etc... Any and all info would be appreciated. I know weight is an issue with them but considering I'm 5'11" and weigh in at 130 lbs soaking wet, I'm not too worried (Being the smallest guy isn't always bad) Thanks! Joel.

PS Any other suggestions about ANYTHING please let me know! Feel free to email. Thanks Again!!!

[kanedog]

5'11" and 130lbs? Are you sure?no offense but just wondering

[jdrockin]

5'11" and 130lbs? Are you sure?no offense but just wondering

I'm 100% certain. I don't try to be this small. I'm currently working construction but I can't build any weight. Oh well. I've been told this puts me at a big advantage for early flying...Any thoughts?

[FUSE]

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for months and I finally have something to post about! Anyway, I've been trying for years to fly helicopters and things are (hopefully) coming into focus. I've got my school picked out (local), I'm working on financing, but I'm looking at different ways to build hours. I've seen ads for Boatpix flying but I couldn't find any threads about them(Excuse me if I missed them). Are they a good company? Is it a gimmick? What are the requirements? Has anyone flown for them before? Do you log enough hours? Etc... Any and all info would be appreciated. I know weight is an issue with them but considering I'm 5'11" and weigh in at 130 lbs soaking wet, I'm not too worried (Being the smallest guy isn't always bad) Thanks! Joel.

PS Any other suggestions about ANYTHING please let me know! Feel free to email. Thanks Again!!!

 

 

Hey jdrockin. I am currently doing the BoatPix package. The prices have changed a bit since I enrolled. Been flying with Helicopter Academy since last summer. Have not flow in three months though since they took the helicopter from MD and has been using it in FL. 3 Helicopter were severly damaged last year due to the Hurricanes in FL. They are getting them fixed and believe they are almost done. But the hurricanes hurt last year.

 

The deal is absolutely 100% legit. It is not a gimmick at all. I have spoken to the Owner of the School Tom a couple times and he is a real nice guy. The helicopters are maintened very nice. When something is wrong it gets fixed. You will log the hours you want. If you can fly alot you will get alot of hours. The Boatpix jobs are mainly during the weekends. Although there are the times that they will be all week. So until your licensed you will have to train during the week. Once you can fly with Boatpix you can log 100 - 150 hours in a summer easy. Depending on how many folks are doing the Boatpix package in your area. I live in MD and there are only two of us doing it here. So this summer I hope to be flying every other weekend.

 

So even with the setback of not flying for the last three months, I still give this school two thumbs up..

 

Where are you located??

[cmsrally]

Hey Fuse,

How far of a commute are you away from where you train?

Im am bout 15mins north of Baltimore. I keeping my options open.

Just curious if you looked at Advanced Helicopter Concepts in Frederick since u are soo close to them?

 

Thanx in advanced,

Chris

[FUSE]

Hey Fuse,

How far of a commute are you away from where you train?

Im am bout 15mins north of Baltimore. I keeping my options open.

Just curious if you looked at Advanced Helicopter Concepts in Frederick since u are soo close to them?

 

Thanx in advanced,

Chris

 

 

Hey Chris,

 

I live about an hour and 15 minutes away from Bay Bridge Airport (W29) in Stevensville, MD. That is just on the other side of the Bay Bridge on the eastern shore.

 

I tried looking at Advanced Helicopter Concepts but they would never return my calls. I called 6 times and gave up. From just a financial angle I couldn't find anyone that beat Helicopter Academy. That was 30,000 for 300 hours of flight time. I went there for an introductory flight and was hooked immediatly. I really like my instructor. What was amazing, at least to me, was that he was 20 years old and to me was a kick butt pilot. He just left to fly at the Grand Canyon with around 1400 hours under his belt. He put in almost 1000 hours last year just at Helicopter Academy. I really like the school. I'm curious to meet my next instructor. Hope he is a good guy like my last one.

[cmsrally]

Sounds like a good place. I have heard so-so things about Boat Pix. Your the first true positive review I have heard. Do they have other missions besides photos?

[FUSE]

This is how I feel about schools. Yeah, the school itself can help you form an opinion of it. But man, the instructor can really make or break how you feel. My instructor was absolutly awesome. Not only did I feel that he was my teacher but a friend as well. Never met the guy till that first flight but he impressed me right away and was very easy to get along with. He had no problems taking time to explain anything to me that I needed to know. He never charged me for ground instruction, even though he spent more than just a couple hours teaching me. We would go out to lunch and just talk shop the entire time and it was nothing more than one guy trying to help out another guy. Not someone trying to make a ton of money off of me. I'm sad / nervous that he has left and moved on and now I have a new instructor.

 

As far as I know photo missions is all they do besides the instructing part. Never heard of them doing anything else. I know my instructor did things like sail boat races, jet ski competitions, fishing tournaments, ect.... This will be my first summer that I will be allowed to fly with boatpix. Last year was just training during the week...

[jdrockin]

Hey thanks for all the advice. I'm located in Madison, WI, but I knew I would have to relocate. I have a somewhat local school that I'm really excited about, I just need to secure funding(easier said than done!). I thought the Boatpix deal looked like it would be a lot of fun so who knows. I've talked to a few instructors all over the US and every one has made a comment on my weight so I'm hoping that'll make things slightly easier getting my foot in the door. Let's Hope! Thanks again, Joel

[Gunner]

boatpix is great but check the regs... can you fly commercial missions even though there is a CFI on board? Is it flight training or is it a commerical revene generating mission? sort of an open issue...

[delorean]

The deal is absolutely 100% legit.

 

I don't know about the 100% part. They're reading the regs THEY want to--finding a loop hole. The FAA will take the strictest interpretation that they can when they go after you. AND.....

 

Private pilots logging PIC time on commercial flights what they'll see. The fact that a CFI is onboard doesn't change things and the fact that they are only acquiring photos that haven't been sold yet doesn't change things either. Basically the private pilot is compensated in a reduced rate for acquiring pictures that are going to be marketed at a price to pay for the flight expenses and turn a profit.

 

It's a great concept and you could read the regs in their favor, but the FAA is going to take the opinion above. Then it's going to be up to YOU to defend yourself. Be prepared to spend $50,000+ to get from possibly winning the hearing, then losing the NTSB appeal, and to get to the US Court of Appeals in DC. And if you lose, your out that money, the money you spent with BoatPix, and the money you'll have to spend to get that couple hundred hours back.

 

It's a gamble.....

[FUSE]

I don't know about the 100% part. They're reading the regs THEY want to--finding a loop hole. The FAA will take the strictest interpretation that they can when they go after you. AND.....

 

Private pilots logging PIC time on commercial flights what they'll see. The fact that a CFI is onboard doesn't change things and the fact that they are only acquiring photos that haven't been sold yet doesn't change things either. Basically the private pilot is compensated in a reduced rate for acquiring pictures that are going to be marketed at a price to pay for the flight expenses and turn a profit.

 

It's a great concept and you could read the regs in their favor, but the FAA is going to take the opinion above. Then it's going to be up to YOU to defend yourself. Be prepared to spend $50,000+ to get from possibly winning the hearing, then losing the NTSB appeal, and to get to the US Court of Appeals in DC. And if you lose, your out that money, the money you spent with BoatPix, and the money you'll have to spend to get that couple hundred hours back.

 

It's a gamble.....

 

 

Sounds like to me it's a gamble not worth taking flying on my private during the missions. The way I understood it was that I'm paying for the first 150 hours to get my commercial and then after that I work for BoatPix till the 300 hour mark.

[jdrockin]

I thought so too. If I get my commercial and fly with them after I already have 150 hours, I shouldn't have any problems, right?

[FUSE]

I thought so too. If I get my commercial and fly with them after I already have 150 hours, I shouldn't have any problems, right?

 

 

There shouldn't be any problems flying for anyone while the ship is making money if you have your commericial.

[delorean]

There shouldn't be any problems flying for anyone while the ship is making money if you have your commericial.

 

 

True, but there's another factor in there. You have a CFI and a commercial pilot (that may or may not hold a CFI.) The whole purpose of this gig is to take pictures right? So how can you log PIC or dual received when you're hanging out the side of the helicopter shooting pictures.

 

One of my students did about 100 hrs with BoatPix a few years ago. During that time I though he took pictures half the time and flew the other half. So he only got 50 hrs of REAL time (which was mostly straight & level by the way). So he spent $10,000 on 50 hrs of REAL time.....that equals $200/hr. For an extra $20/hr he could have flown with me for that 50 hrs and got his instrument rating early. But, he did get an extra 50 hrs in his logbook--whether that time is legit or not remains to be determined.

 

Fifteen to twenty years ago the FAA busted two CFIs that formed a partnership and bought a twin-engine airplane. They flew it about 200-300 hrs and BOTH logged PIC and dual given. First the FAA nailed them on the dual given part--they can't BOTH be giving dual--one has to give it, one has to receive it . Next, they nailed them on the fact that both had the same amount of hours and how could either be giving 200+ hrs of instruction to their peer? Basically, they were fighting their way to the point that they knew these guys weren't receiving flight instruction from each other, they were just going out to build time together; and, therefore, only one of them could be PIC. Both got a violation and lost the flight hours (or a portion thereof.)

 

So let's say you get busted over 150 hrs of PIC from BoatPix. You have your commercial, so no problems there. But, they say "During that 150 hrs PIC, were you, by definition, the sole manipulator of the flight controls?" You say "yes" and they question you instructor to whether he was the sole manipulator of the controls or was giving instruction for the whole 150 hrs. He says "yes, of course." And then they bring in Aministrator's Exhibit A -- delivered just like in "Miracle on 34th Street"-- the THOUSANDS of pictures you two guys took. The FAA's attorney says, "So Mr. Dumbazz, just how were acting as sole manipulator of the flight controls while you were the sole manipulator of this camera for 2000+ action packed shots?" BUSTED!!

[SkyFocal]

Fair warning:

 

Boatpix will tell you one thing up front; but once they have your money, you'll play by their rules or you won't fly. I know what I'm talking about, I used to fly for them.

 

I left because I got in an argument with the owner about a dual cross county flight I conducted with a private pilot. The owner wanted to know why I did not take a camera. I explained that I could not do a commercial mission with a non-commercial pilot. He didn't want to hear it. He said, "We are a photography company." Remember that... it's not about flight training - it's about making money for Boatpix.

 

Also, for the guys waiting on a ship in MD... keep waiting. It isn't going to happen.

[Guest VNE]

For the Maryland guys, you might want to look into American Helicopters in Manassas, VA. Here's their website and phone number:

www.americanheli.com

703-368-9599

 

They offer a 200-hour private through CFI package for $39,500.

[sikorskypilot]

I thought so too. If I get my commercial and fly with them after I already have 150 hours, I shouldn't have any problems, right?

 

I have my commercial and i flew for them last year in chicago over lake michigan. I was alot of fun, but make sure you get a life vest. Sometimes there is none provided. I flew with a helicopter that was leased by boatpix from a local school. Good times. I would do it again.

[jdrockin]

I have my commercial and i flew for them last year in chicago over lake michigan. I was alot of fun, but make sure you get a life vest. Sometimes there is none provided. I flew with a helicopter that was leased by boatpix from a local school. Good times. I would do it again.

Out of Chicago? I thought they were only down south but that would be an awesome setup for me! Can you request where you fly or is it wherever they send/need you? Also, how many hours did you get to fly and what were you getting paid?(if you don't mind saying) Thanks! Joel

[FUSE]

Also, for the guys waiting on a ship in MD... keep waiting. It isn't going to happen.

 

 

Can you elaborate a bit more on this? Reason I ask is because last year we had two ships here. One for training and one that Boatpix would use. It was nice, and the trainer was an instrument trainer. And since I'm not licensed yet when the instructor was gone on the weekends doing Boatpix jobs I would take the trainer out to fullfill my solo requirements.

 

There are enough students here to keep one instructor busy. Last year my poor instructor did not have a weekend off for a little over two months. He flew pretty much every day. And there are only two of us doing the boatpix package. So they are more of a school here than a photography business.... Now weekends is a different story, but I was aware that Boatpix was there deal on the weekends when I joined.

 

I may be nieve but I do believe Tom that there will be a ship back here before the months end. The season for Boatpix starts in about two weeks, and then pretty much every weekend will be filled till next winter. I wasn't surprised that they took the helicopter down south considering there was a lot of time here that we couldn't fly just because of bad weather during the winter months, and the huricanes really damaged three helicopters last year. Not sure how long ago you worked with them but maybe things changed since then. So far I am pretty happy with them. But I will be the first one to tell you that things may change in the future.... Right now they don't just go out and take pictures. They are hired to goto specific places to work. At least that is how it is here in the MD area.

[Boatpix]

The pontoon equipped R22 on floats that says "Boatpix.com" is a seasonal helicopter that goes where there is boating activity. There are six on floats and four on skids. When the lake freezes over there isn't much reason to have it in a region. It left Maryland for the winter season for Florida where it was about 80 degrees today. It will return to Annapolis when the weather warms up. The R22 on skids left in January because it didn't have heat. The pilot, Paul, logged over 1,000 hours in less than a year because I always choose to have one pilot so he gets all the hours rather than splitting them up with a bunch of instructors. Paul thought he could build more time in Florida and brought the non heat equipped helicpter down here to trade it for one that had heat. Upon arrival he flew quite a bit than he would have in the IFR weather from which he came. While in Florida, Paul got a job flying at the Grand Canyon and we are all happy for him.

 

Although three helicotpers were damaged in a Hurricane when the hangar blew completely away, we still have seven other helicopters and at are anticipating one of them coming online shortly and the other two by the time our season starts. We'll have the equipment necessary in Maryland like we have since 1990. We flew for years out of Ocean City, then Lee Airport and then after 9/11 we trucked the helicopter to Bay Bridge where we have an office and an apartment for the pilot which is within walking distance to the airport and also on the water with a boatslip. We train in FAR Part 61 in several locations (Maryland, Rhode Island, Houston, Alabama, North Carolina, Florida and Puerto Rico) and FAR Part 141 in Florida. We are especially found of very light helicopter pilots and students. Anyone with questions can call me anytime at 561-346-2816. We've produced dozens of pilots since I bought my first helicopter in 1990 and most anyone associated with our program has glowing remarks. Some people do get kicked out for various reasons which you'll see in any business. Who else is going to train you to 150 hours and then "give" you the 50 hours to meet SFAR73 and another 100 to meet the insurance requirements of company that insures most of these helicotpers? I'm not aware of anyone logging hours incorrectly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you elaborate a bit more on this? Reason I ask is because last year we had two ships here. One for training and one that Boatpix would use. It was nice, and the trainer was an instrument trainer. And since I'm not licensed yet when the instructor was gone on the weekends doing Boatpix jobs I would take the trainer out to fullfill my solo requirements.

 

There are enough students here to keep one instructor busy. Last year my poor instructor did not have a weekend off for a little over two months. He flew pretty much every day. And there are only two of us doing the boatpix package. So they are more of a school here than a photography business.... Now weekends is a different story, but I was aware that Boatpix was there deal on the weekends when I joined.

 

I may be nieve but I do believe Tom that there will be a ship back here before the months end. The season for Boatpix starts in about two weeks, and then pretty much every weekend will be filled till next winter. I wasn't surprised that they took the helicopter down south considering there was a lot of time here that we couldn't fly just because of bad weather during the winter months, and the huricanes really damaged three helicopters last year. Not sure how long ago you worked with them but maybe things changed since then. So far I am pretty happy with them. But I will be the first one to tell you that things may change in the future.... Right now they don't just go out and take pictures. They are hired to goto specific places to work. At least that is how it is here in the MD area.

[FUSE]

Good to see you posting here Tom. Can't wait to start flying again. My wife just had our baby so I'll be ready in a couple weeks. Should be right around the time the ship gets back here.

[sikorskypilot]

Out of Chicago? I thought they were only down south but that would be an awesome setup for me! Can you request where you fly or is it wherever they send/need you? Also, how many hours did you get to fly and what were you getting paid?(if you don't mind saying) Thanks! Joel

 

Well i was asked my the local flight school here. Boat pix came to them looking for someone to fly for a day over lake michigan. The owner of the flight school came to me and asked if i were interested. I was, the whole thing seemed to be a lil bit unorganized but i went with it. They are in the chicago area a few times a year. sometime they bring there own helicopter or ask a local flight school to rent one. Look to see when there are boat races or shows on the lake in chicago. Thats when they come out.

[volition]

I flew for Boatpix for a week and I did 65 hours. We flew around southern Florida doing the air and sea show, and then we flew to the Bahamas for a fishing tournament. We did Aerial flights taking pictures of all kinds of boats. The training and experience I received at Boatpix is bare none one of the best place to learn real world flying. You learn to control power, speed, settling with power, numerous traffic, fast changing weather, etc. I’d recommend Boatpix for anyone that wants to build a whole lot of time for the best price around! Thanks Boatpix!

[dlo22]

All of the people saying the regulations are off and you are taking a gamble and could lose your license forever just doesn't make sence. If boatpix was a crappy operation and they were doing illegal missions they would have been shut down a long time ago. you don't think the faa would see and know what was going on if it was illegal. However they make it work, it works whether you guys don't think it does or not. It works and it has been proven many times over, I know a few people who have worked for them on and off. and the whole story about you only are flying half the time and taking pictures the other half. that may be true, but you are getting a hell of alot better experience than flight training. cause after the student has 20 hours or so, the instructor doesn't need to come ontor the controls and never really flies the ship, your instructor just becomes a ground instructor and a saftey pilot in MOST cases. of course not all. but I know that after twenty hours for me, my instructor may have flown five minutes per each hours. thats alot less than thirty.

 

Now silverstate is a shady deal and everyone is well aware of that. it has its own website for people to bash on them. But its funny you don't see that for boat pix, cause they are a real flight school, if they were doing anything illegal, they would surely have been caught and blasted online for doing phony operations for the past ten years.... sure their requirements might be strict, but guess what, its thier company and thier decision..... NOthing phony about what they do, or how they do it. its hours logged and you pay a price for those hours logged, and its as simple as that. anyone can speculate , but that is nothing more than speculation, unless you have some proof of them ripping people off, or doing illegal missions, or logging fake time, or breaking fars or whatever a few of you are gripeing about.....