R44 for leaseback questions

[xolo_flight]

Are there any R44 owners in here that can shed light on yearly operational costs, ie insurance, maintaince.....

I have some property that I might want to sell and then get an R44 and work out a lease back to area flight schools or tour ops. Hoping that the aircraft will be flying enough in a month to cover the monthly bills and still allow me to fly for free 2-3 times a month. Example: sell property, borrow from myself $250.000, repay myself over 20 years = 12.500 a year or $1041 a month. At the rate for 1hr in an R44 at $415 it needs to fly 3 times a month for it to cover my ops costs. anything more than 3 hrs would go into future repairs, pay myself back.

 

any feedback is appreciated

[Goldy]

I think you're looking at this wrong. First, forget getting $415 an hour? Where the heck do you find people to pay that rate for an R 44 ? If you lease back to a flight school, they have to pay insurance, 100 hour inspections and basic repairs...which amounts to somewhere around $70-$85 an hour in an R22 and maybe as much as $150 hour in an R44...so if the flight school "sells" time for $400...they may give you $200 or so for the R44. I know in the LA area, R22's leaseback around $80-$90 per hour.....from that the owner has to set $58-60 per hour aside for the 2200 hour rebuild, and the rest goes into paying the monthly bills. I dont have the exact figures for an R44, but hopefully you get the picture. Remember every hour on the meter of a helicopter is an hour closer to a rebuild, which depreciates the value of the bird. You have to set aside that reserve each hour to keep it flying...you'll find the numbers wont work out unless the bird is in the air 40 hours a month or more....Be sure to visit Robinsons website for their "estimated" costs per hour....I'm not saying its a bad idea, just talk to a school first about what they would pay, what costs they would cover, and how many hours they think it could fly each month...good luck

[HH60Pilot]

The Raven II that I was leasing was $225 per hour to the leasing company. I was responsible for paying for the lease, fuel, oil, scheduled and unscheduled maintenance, labor to perform AD's, insurance, hangar, and the rest of the expenses. The leasing company covered the cost of the 2,200 hour overhaul and parts for AD's. I no longer lease the R44 but have the a lease with the same company on a R22 Beta II at $85 per hour.

 

Insurance on the R44 for Part 91 scenic tours (read...no flight instruction) with a company other than Pathfinder was $28,000 per year and it covered the full hull value of the ship as requested by the leasing company. This was a named pilot policy with two high time pilots (9,000 hours TT between the two of us). Switching to Pathfinder resulted in the premium being reduced to about $14,000 (yep 50%) and we could then do instruction with it as well. The drawback was that Pathfinder uses a specific formula to determine hull value and we were exposed about $40,000 if the bird was totalled. If you go 3 years without totalling the bird, then you are money ahead with Pathfinder. The other thing was just getting the operating expenses reduced by over $1,100 a month made it a bit easier to pay the other bills.

 

Goldy...We had people paying us $500 per hour dual for the R44. Another operator I know gets $420 per hour for his and that doesn't include the CFI. A field overhaul on an R22 is $80,000-$90,000, divided by 2,200 hours equals $38.64 per hour (based on $85,000) to cover the overhaul, not the $58-$60 as you stated.

 

Doug

 

Added...Goldy, You are right in an operator not paying $415 an hour for an R44, the end customer will be paying that much. Guess I misread the post the first time.

[xolo_flight]

The Raven II that I was leasing was $225 per hour to the leasing company. I was responsible for paying for the lease, fuel, oil, scheduled and unscheduled maintenance, labor to perform AD's, insurance, hangar, and the rest of the expenses. The leasing company covered the cost of the 2,200 hour overhaul and parts for AD's. I no longer lease the R44 but have the a lease with the same company on a R22 Beta II at $85 per hour.

 

Insurance on the R44 for Part 91 scenic tours (read...no flight instruction) with a company other than Pathfinder was $28,000 per year and it covered the full hull value of the ship as requested by the leasing company. This was a named pilot policy with two high time pilots (9,000 hours TT between the two of us). Switching to Pathfinder resulted in the premium being reduced to about $14,000 (yep 50%) and we could then do instruction with it as well. The drawback was that Pathfinder uses a specific formula to determine hull value and we were exposed about $40,000 if the bird was totalled. If you go 3 years without totalling the bird, then you are money ahead with Pathfinder. The other thing was just getting the operating expenses reduced by over $1,100 a month made it a bit easier to pay the other bills.

 

Goldy...We had people paying us $500 per hour dual for the R44. Another operator I know gets $420 per hour for his and that doesn't include the CFI. A field overhaul on an R22 is $80,000-$90,000, divided by 2,200 hours equals $38.64 per hour (based on $85,000) to cover the overhaul, not the $58-$60 as you stated.

 

Doug

 

Added...Goldy, You are right in an operator not paying $415 an hour for an R44, the end customer will be paying that much. Guess I misread the post the first time.

 

Thnx for the information. My flight school leases back an R44 here locally and was just currious about the finances involved. A former neighbor did somewhat of a similar thing with his 47' motor yacht in the caribean. THNX appreciate the feed back

[Huey]

My Godfather told me once:

"If it flys, floats or fuqks rent it, don't buy it!"

HA!

I thought it was a good one...

[HH60Pilot]

Thnx for the information. My flight school leases back an R44 here locally and was just currious about the finances involved. A former neighbor did somewhat of a similar thing with his 47' motor yacht in the caribean. THNX appreciate the feed back

 

You are welcome...Doug

[amos]

Do you guys know of any Helicopter Leasing Near Cincinnati? Im looking to start a Part 91 operation

[troll.detector]

Are there any R44 owners in here that can shed light on yearly operational costs, ie insurance, maintaince.....

 

any feedback is appreciated

You might find these links useful in answering your question:

 

http://www.aneclecticmind.com/2010/12/28/the-real-cost-of-helicopter-ownership/

 

http://www.aneclecticmind.com/2013/09/12/why-i-charge-545hour-to-fly-passengers-in-my-helicopter/