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Had my first red warning light come on yesterday.


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OK, I know some have had alot worse but for me this was my first experience with having a warning light come on during flight. While doing pattern work yesterday with my instructor we had just finshed doing a steep approach. Was going to be practing auto's but that came to and end once we were at a hover after the steep approach. I did my clearing turn, then did all the pre-takeoff checks and then it happened. I saw a red blip. Wasn't sure if I really saw it or not so I waited a sec. Then sure enough, the TR Chip light came on. Seeing that I was at about a 3 foot hover I immediatly landed. There were no other sounds or vibrations associated with it but I figured since I could, it's better to be safe than sorry. At that time my intructor took over the controls, took us back in front of the hanger and shut it down. Immediatly after shutdown went to the TR and inspected it. Too hot too touch and some of the paint was now peeling off. Very strange. Something is wrong. It was a bummer that my lesson yesterday was cut short like that but I was very happy with the way I handled everything. I know it was not a huge ordeal but non the less, I thought I was very calm, knew exactly what the warning light meant, and reacted properly, quickly, and smooth. I know I'll have many more in my career but it was good to get the first hickup out of the way.

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What the tail rotor tele-temp read?

 

RW

 

 

It read normal but I both my instructor and I believe that the teletemp may not be any good anymore since it got water in it. A call has been placed to have that replaced as well.

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How many hours does the helo have on it? Did they pull the chip detector to see what it had on it?

 

RW

 

 

You know, I'm not sure about total hours. I want to say a bit under 1600. Not sure though. I know that is has been 80 hours since the last 100 hour check though.

 

Since it happened last night I don't think the mechanic has had a chance to look at it yet. I believe he was out of town working.

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Guest pokey
Since it happened last night I don't think the mechanic has had a chance to look at it yet. I believe he was out of town working.

 

where IZ a cop ( err i mean mechanic) when ya need one ! :lol:

 

still not sure if being a mechanic/pilot is good OR bad :blink:

 

on 1 side "we stuck here for the night honey" :rolleyes:

 

side 2 ,- FIX IT DAMMIT !!! :angry:

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The instructor moved it with the light on? That's stupid. Really stupid. It's not that hard to move the helicopter by ground, but it can be really hard to get all the parts back together after he balls it up when the gearbox comes apart. If he had shut it down immediately, the gearbox may not have overheated. Low-time CFIs aren't always as swift as they need to be.

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The instructor moved it with the light on? That's stupid. Really stupid. It's not that hard to move the helicopter by ground, but it can be really hard to get all the parts back together after he balls it up when the gearbox comes apart. If he had shut it down immediately, the gearbox may not have overheated. Low-time CFIs aren't always as swift as they need to be.

As I recall (I don't have my POH handy at the moment) as long as there was no secondary indication the instructor acted per the procedures (for an R22, at least).

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As I recall (I don't have my POH handy at the moment) as long as there was no secondary indication the instructor acted per the procedures (for an R22, at least).

 

 

That's exactly correct. Per the POH if the warning light is not in combination with vibration or noise then land as soon as practicle. If it is associated with noise or vibration then land immediatly. He did act per the procedures.

 

But I do see Gomer Pylot's point. And it is true. I guess just because we could move it per the procedures, we didn't have to.

 

So now a question, what should we have done. We would have taken up the runway for about 10 - 15 minutes. Should one of us have stayed with the helicopter to monitor the radio and warn any traffic that may enter the pattern that we were stuck on the runway and to wait till we get it clear? Considering that for us to fly it to the hanger only added about 2 minutes max would it have been safer to move it like we did?

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That's exactly correct. Per the POH if the warning light is not in combination with vibration or noise then land as soon as practicle. If it is associated with noise or vibration then land immediatly. He did act per the procedures.

 

But I do see Gomer Pylot's point. And it is true. I guess just because we could move it per the procedures, we didn't have to.

 

So now a question, what should we have done. We would have taken up the runway for about 10 - 15 minutes. Should one of us have stayed with the helicopter to monitor the radio and warn any traffic that may enter the pattern that we were stuck on the runway and to wait till we get it clear? Considering that for us to fly it to the hanger only added about 2 minutes max would it have been safer to move it like we did?

 

 

You landed it as soon as practical. You IP should of shut it down there.

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So now a question, what should we have done. We would have taken up the runway for about 10 - 15 minutes. Should one of us have stayed with the helicopter to monitor the radio and warn any traffic that may enter the pattern that we were stuck on the runway and to wait till we get it clear? Considering that for us to fly it to the hanger only added about 2 minutes max would it have been safer to move it like we did?

 

you propose a question that will very depending on the situation :blink:

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FUSE- Real easy for all of us to second guess the situation- so I won't say what was done was right or wrong under the circumstances. I would have put it on the ground right now, like you did....but maybe set it down 20 feet off the active runway. I would not have wanted to be in the air...even in a 3 foot hover when that gear box froze up. Just my opinion..

 

Glad to hear all was well with both of you, helicopters can always be fixed.

 

Goldy

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Yes, you landed as soon as practical, perhaps sooner. You don't have to land a helicopter on the runway. I seldom use the runway for anything but an instrument takeoff using adequate visual reference for visibility. That's a judgement call, however, and I won't argue with it. But once you land, you aren't authorized to take off again with a known malfunction, until it has been cleared by a certificated A&P mechanic. If the FAA catches you doing this, they will whack your peepee.

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Guest pokey
Is that an official FAA reprimand? And what if the pilot is of the peepee-less persuasion? :P

 

U 2 are a riot ! :lol: :rolleyes:

 

An aquaintance of mine who owns a 300, was letting an instructor use it for flight training. One day upon landing it, the engine started vibrating verry badly, so the instructor just shut it down were it was & went to inform the owner that he thought there was a serious problem. The owner walked over to the ship (which was about 100 yards from the hangar & on the other side of a drainage ditch) The owner looked it over, didnt see anything wrong, got in, started it up, engaged rotor-----noticed a slight vibration in a hover but "contemplated on how to get it across drainage ditch w/ out flying it" ( there was really no other way w/ out taking the major part of the day) , so? YIP ! you guesssed it ! ! crankshaft broke in 2 right over the drainage ditch, wrecked it pretty bad--rebuildable, but? thousands of $$ for the damage & then the new engine on top of it?!

 

When i worked for a few operators, & the pilots would come tell me that they thought something was wrong w/ the ship?----there USUALLY was, ( altho some of the other mechanics would say "that pilot always is whining about something")

 

You made it back to the hangar with a little bit of luck, & thats NOT something that you should count on EVER!

 

(& yes, it was more than likely "technically" illegal to pick the ship back up off the ground under its own power w/ the light still lit)

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This is all great information and great advise that trust me, is being taken to the heart.

 

I wanted to add in this little bit of info as well. The light never stayed on steady. It would flicker. It did this for about a total of I would guess maybe 10 seconds max, probably closer to 6 or 7, it really wasn't long. During the flight back to the hanger it was not on and did not come on again during the shutdown. Don't know if that would change how any of you handled the situation.

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Dumb move......

 

At 3100 RPM that t/r gearbox can eat itself quick. Just because there wasn't any vibration, doesn't mean there isn't going to be one in the very, very near future.

 

You should have shut down, hiked it back up to the hangar, and returned with an adjustable wrench, safety wire pliers, and 4 ounces of gearbox oil, and a plastic cup. You can pull and replace that plug in about 5 minutes and be on your way (that's why RHC includes that little bottle of gearbox oil with every new helicopter.) Then get it back to the hangar and flush & run with mineral oil, etc.

 

Chances are it was just a little slug on the plug, but then again, for all you know, it could have been a chunk big enough to have its own serial number.

 

About a year ago we had one of our helicopters make a precautionary landing in a field just two miles short of landing at the destination hospital due to an engine chip light. When mx pulled the plug, they found all kinds of CHUNKS......that pilot wouldn't have made it to his destination (rooftop) by the time the engine ate itself. No vibrations either. Land and be GLAD you landed safely.

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I just thought of another story that would fit in this topic perfectly.....

 

Out at RHC safety school they told us a story about one of the few engine failures that an R22 had ever experienced that actually went back to a mechanical defect. All the others were carb icing, fuel exhaustion, or some other stupid-pilot induced failure.

 

-------------------------

A low time pilot was flying a R22 and got a low oil pressure indication (light and gauge). The guy landed, checked the dipstick, saw 6 quarts and assumed that since he had oil in it, the gauge and light must be wrong. He took off and the engine seized up less than 2 minutes later due to a sheared oil pump shaft. He was killed in the accident.

 

Here ya go....TWO sensors told him that something was screwed up (red light off of the Hobbs pressure SWITCH, and the gauge off the pressure SENDER.) And as the cylinder temp and oil temp went up, I guess he figured that was TWO more bad sensors. Yet, nothing APPEARED to be physically wrong with the engine, so he decided to go fly and ended up paying the ulitmate price for his ignorance.

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It doesn't appear your lesson ended early at all.

 

Actual emergencies are some of the best lessons, and I'm inclined to agree that you should land immediately, off the runway and shut it down. I wouldn't recommend brining the helicopter closer to any others in parking as you may add to the pile of parts. Something to consider is what you would say to the prosecuting attorney or the FAA. If the problem worsened and you continued flight and proceeded to hurt some one you could very well be in an uncomfortable situation of explaining why you elected to carry on flight. I would much rather answer why I shut down on the grass without incident.

 

Having said that, don't continually second guess yourself, as it worked out fine, but keep yourself aware of the possibilities both good ad bad.

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RED light put it down and check, this was one of the questions I was asked by the examiner, same as warning light on fuel.

Why is it that I HAVE ONLY HAD RED LIGHT OVER WATER, how did the dam thing know ? lucky it was false reading.

PS had an attack of the dreaded mud wasp to day in the static tube was still doing 40 Ks on the ground

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....and ended up paying the ulitmate price for his ignorance.

 

Didn't you just tell us that he was a low time pilot?

 

Your assessement seems harsh in that light. I think you're being hard on the guy, especially since he's dead. I am not defending his actions, but Monday-morning-quarterbacking a low timer (like me. except that I am for the moment still breathing) like that is a bit cold.

 

Dave Blevins

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BLAVE

I think as a low time pilot you have taken the message to hart IF a warning light comes on it requires URGENT investigation beter to get home late than not atall .

DELORIAN was just trying to point out that no oil presure, and warning lite on!!! was only part of the problem, a scan of inst would most possably have shown high head and oil temps.

Instructors should reinforce the lessons regarding ANY undue readings of instruments\warning lighes,

We are all sorry for the pilot and his family but we all should learn from others.

My instructor would cover instruments at random times and ask what was oil temp, what manifold presure, charge rate, it reminded me to take note of the inst and act on them.

Light on = on ground as soon as possable

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Geeeeeez......We're not talking about the cylinder temp running a "little" on the hot side or a flickering clutch light. You know, something that needs to be diagnosed to see if it could really be something, or it's nothing.

 

We're talking about a NO BRAINER here:

 

-ZERO oil pressure on the gauge

-Red oil pressure light

-Climbing cylinder head temps

-Not to mention, the grinding halt of the engine.

 

He obviousely didn't call anyone or seek help when he landed to check it out. AND.....he obviousely didn't consult the POH for guidance.

 

If I remember correctly, he wasn't some 20 hr student either. He was a CERTIFICATED pilot who had to take a pre-solo test, a written test, and a checkride at some point. Somewhere in that training he HAD to learn that you can not fly a helicopter that doesn't have any oil pressure.

 

The guy was an idiot.....case closed.

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