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I heard a rumor today from a CFII that there is an 80 percent failure rate for the CFI checkride the first time around. This can't be true is it? Can any CFI's out there shed some light on this?

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I've been told by a DPE that it was 84%. I've also heard numbers ranging from 70% to 90%.

 

Don't have any hard data to back any of it up, but I do know several instructors who passed everything on the first try except the inital CFI.

 

That being said, I passed on my first try, and I know of two other people who passed on the first try, so I suspect there is some stretching of the truth there.

 

Fly Safe!

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I've been told by a DPE that it was 84%. I've also heard numbers ranging from 70% to 90%.

 

Don't have any hard data to back any of it up, but I do know several instructors who passed everything on the first try except the inital CFI.

 

That being said, I passed on my first try, and I know of two other people who passed on the first try, so I suspect there is some stretching of the truth there.

 

Fly Safe!

 

Any idea what part of the PTS the students are failed on? I suspect either ground or maybe the full down autos? It seems to me the CFI flight standards are at least similar to the commercial flight standards.

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I would hazard a guess that the flight portion of the CFI ride is the most inconsistantly administered flight test of any of the checkrides (except possibly the CFII flight test). I have experienced, observed, heard first and second hand of flight tests where:

 

-the candidate flew all the maneuvers, teaching every one;

 

-the candidate flew all the maneuvers, teaching only one;

 

-the candidate flew very few of the maneuvers (less than 1/3), but taught all that they flew, the examiner flew the rest and the candidate evaluated the examiner's performance afterward;

 

-the candidate flew very few of the maneuvers (less than 1/3), and taught only one, the examiner flew the rest and the candidate evaluated only one of the examiner's maneuvers afterward;

 

-and many variations on this theme. The only thing that remained consistant was that the CFI candidate was required to fly to Commercial PTS standards.

 

On the oral side, while there are huge differences in how the questions come, most orals I've experienced, sat in on, or heard first-hand debriefs of seem to cover a similar range and scope of material.

 

People seem to fail CFI rides in the oral due to a lack of DEPTH of knowledge, which creates an inability to properly teach the material.

 

In the flight, it is due to a lack of practice in talking through maneuvers while being ahead of the aircraft and the maneuver. While it is true that the aircraft only has to stay within Com. standards, the pilot has to be able to tell the student/DPE what is going to happen 10 seconds ahead on a running basis. Most under-prepared CFI candidates tend to go quiet, or fall back to describing what just happened. Or they may describe things in confusing and inconsistant terms "bring in a little collective", "raise your attitude", "stay straight"...

 

It's increase or decrease power, or raise or lower collective (in a Schweizer, for instance these means two different things).

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On the oral side, while there are huge differences in how the questions come, most orals I've experienced, sat in on, or heard first-hand debriefs of seem to cover a similar range and scope of material.

 

People seem to fail CFI rides in the oral due to a lack of DEPTH of knowledge, which creates an inability to properly teach the material.

 

My oral questions came from the ASA Oral Exam Guides for CFI and for helicopter...

 

As for the flight portion I flew some of the maneuvers and so did the DPE... I described them all and never stopped talking the entire flight.

 

The DPE should have a preflight briefing as to how he wants the flight to take place.

 

Needless to say I passed on my first try but it was a very long oral and we flew for 1.5

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I would agree with Fling on his view of the CFI checkride.

 

His comment about the depth of the knowledge rings very true. Many people can parrot the knowledge, without having a deep understanding of it.

 

Giving the book answer for what disymmetry of lift is one thing, drawing it on a white board and explaining it to your mother so she understands is quite another.

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The oral is the biggest portion people fail. As stated above it is one thing to know and explain something and quite another to TEACH it, using different methods. I have found that people that are used to teaching/telling others what to do have a much higher pass rate than those who have never been in charge of any situation.

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