Speaking of Autos.

[FauxZ]

The 180 auto thread got me thinking about all the auto practice we do in training and the pride in hitting the target. I'm curious how all of you have handled real power failures out there in the real world. Did you get to the spot you planned for? Were you sweating the whole way down or did you know you had it? We all TRAIN for the unexpected, I'd just like a take on someone that's dealt with the unexpected.

 

Heck, I'd even be inerested, just in general, about the number of people that have had to do an unexpected full down over the course of their career and your thoughts on the experience.

 

Thanks in advance for sharing.

[Gomer Pylot]

Been flying for 38 years, helicopters for 34, and I've never had an engine failure, over the course of about 13,000 hours. I've never had a serious emergency of any kind. Of course, most of that time has been with turbine engines behind me.

[Eric Hunt]

Same as Gomer, flying for 38 years, 13,000 hours and never had a power problem. Turbines for 11,000 of those.

[GLSNightPilot]

Almost the same for me. Lots of us old guys around, I guess. No engine failures, but I have had close to a hundred bird strikes. Never any damage, though. Some chip lights, but I always got it on the deck before anything bad happened.

[FauxZ]

Well at this rate we're all going to loose our air of danger with the ladies (or guys)...

 

In all seriousness it's good to know that things can, and often do, go quite well. So for you guys that have been flying for years, how often do you practice emergency procedures?? Is it something you take time out to do every few months or few years? Like a saftey course or just some practice time with a CFI?

 

Edit: I really need to stop mixing up the preview and submit buttons.

[GLSNightPilot]

If you're working for a Part 135 operator, recurrent training is required annually. The company training department usually does the training. For medium and heavy twins, there is no autorotation training for the most part, because they can continue to fly with an engine failure. I have done some practice autos, both in the aircraft and in the sim, in mediums. As an IFR PIC, I get a checkride every 6 months, which includes emergency procedures, including a single-engine ILS approach as well as other procedures. For small single-engine pilots, they do autos in the aircraft every year. Some companies do them to touchdown, some to power recoveries.

[svtcobra66]

I only have about 210hrs, but I had a close call, not a complete power failure. Flying with an instructor in a 300 on a night cross country, we were about three miles from Gainesville, FL airport (inbound) when the manifold pressure started to rise, and the engine starting getting rough. The instructor took over, and radioed the tower, but we continued to lose power and my instructor decided at about two miles that we were not going to make the runway. With the exception of a road to our left (which we later found out was University Blvd. of the University of Florida) and a field to our right (which we later realized was a prison), the ground was black and did not look very forgiving. My instructor decided to go for the road while we still had power, and we started our descent and radioed our intentions to the tower. There was a grass median that we originally were aiming for, but we overshot that due to some power lines, and continued to see powerlines for some distance. My instructor was searching for a place to land when finally there was a break in the power lines crossing the street, and my instructor quickly put it onto the ground with the engine vibrations growing worse. We ended up in the left turn lane with traffic coming at us on University Blvd. When we got out we noticed a burning smell, but nothing was coming out of the engine. We ended up trailering it back to the base airport, where they discovering it had spun the main bearing in the engine. We were lucky to have the power we did, and I realized then just how important it is to ALWAYS be looking for a landing spot. I think if I would not have been with the instructor I would have tried to make the airport, and judging from what the engine looked like I probably wouldn't have made it. That was definitely a learning experience for me, and hopefully I've exhausted my number of engine outs for the next 13,000 hours or so (I had about 180 hours at the time)

[Azpilot]

I had an R-22 burp while rolling the throttle on in the flare of an auto with a commercial student at the controls and I finished it to the ground with no problems. Fortunately we were doing autos to the runway. Student had his auto pegged to the numbers and with the small ground skid missed it by 10 feet otherwise it was a perfect auto.

[relyon]

My student and I were doing straight-ins when the engine decided it needed a rest (a too-low idle adjustment in a 300C, combined with some overly-brisk throttle action). I felt an odd shake, then the low voltage light caught my eye, and a glance at the engine tach confirmed my suspicion. After a mental moment of denial ("this is not happening"), I calmly stated "I have control. This one's to the ground" and proceeded to talk through the whole maneuver. We were on the ground for a minute or two getting the engine restarted, then we took off for another one, being a bit more careful when splitting the needles. The idle has since been adjusted correctly (higher).

 

It wasn't that big of a deal. All the same, if I never have another actual failure again it'll be too soon.

 

Bob

[joker]

FauxZ,

 

Good question.

 

Can you think of any other instances (other than engine failure) where you might want to autorotate?! I'm sure you can. Maybe we should include those into this discussion.

 

I personally have not had any situations which caused me to autorotate to the ground. There have been other malfunctions where I have made rapid descents. Although not autorotations, the need to choose spot quickly, and the descent profile is similar. Just the termination can be more controlled.

 

I have witnessed and know well a few who have had to autorotate. Problems ranging from blown cylinder heads to throttle linkage failure (resulting in stuck throttle).

 

So, even though engine failures are rare, the skills required are invaluable.

 

Maybe we can invite CofG into this conversation!

 

Joker

[Gomer Pylot]

Of course there are other malfunctions which require autorotation. Tail rotor failure, including everything from the transmission back. Combining gearbox failure in twins. C-box failure is rare, but if it happens you had better be quick, because most twins don't have the rotor inertia of some singles, and few pilots are ready for it, because it is so rare. With a tail rotor failure in cruise, there is a little more time, perhaps a lot more time, and it may be possible to fly to an airport and autorotate to a runway, which is a lot better than a hole in the trees. So many failure modes, so little time..........

[Skids Up]

For medium and heavy twins, there is no autorotation training for the most part, because they can continue to fly with an engine failure.

 

Pretty tricky in the 204, 205, 214

[Gomer Pylot]

??

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

[Skids Up]

because they can continue to fly with an engine failure.

 

They are all single engine...

[C of G]

Pretty tricky in the 204, 205, 214

For medium and heavy twins, there is no autorotation training for the most part, because they can continue to fly with an engine failure.

 

I think you missed the operative word "twins". And, I don't believe they are all singles.

[Gomer Pylot]

SkidsUp, what part of 'twin' do you not understand? I thought that was where you were going, but I didn't want to put words in your mouth. The 214B is a single, but the 214ST is a twin, and flies just fine single-engine.

[C of G]

Maybe we can invite CofG into this conversation!

 

Joker

 

 

Actually, I was gonna stay out, as I figured everyone was tired of my stories, and I knew this would take a bit of typing, but since there have been so few replies............

 

I have been flying about 6 years, around 3000 hours and I've had three engine outs/power failures, not including those during practice autorotations, but I would add that that sort of thing happens quite often, and it would be prudent to expect the engine to quit when practicing engine failures and pick suitable areas to train over.

 

My first was kinda funny as I was brand new and doing a demo flight for an ex Navy personnel officer of some sort who had a bunch of time in the back, but no time on the controls. He was the perfect demo as he was knowledgeable and aware of helicopter aerodynamics and procedures. In any case, on the pre flight briefing he asked if I had ever had any forced landings and I said only simulated ones that my instructors had given me. After about an hours flight I asked him if he wanted to end the flight with an autorotation and he was eager so we took off for our last pattern, just as we were crossing a tree line on take off, the helicopter started shaking real bad. I was only about 100' so I cut the throttle and the vibrations went away, but as the engine was still running I brought it back on and back came the vibes, so I rolled off again, and set down basically via auto. I asked to make sure if he was alright, he said yes, and I then jokingly blamed him for it as he shouldn't have asked prior to the flight if that had ever happened. He thought that funny and enjoyed the actual emergency. Turned out and exhaust valve had cracked and we lost compression in one cylinder, so it was only a partial engine failure.

 

The next one was due, as Joker said above, to a cracked throttle bell crank, resulting in a fixed throttle position. I was training with a student working on confined areas, and the student complained of a sticky throttle. I took the controls, confirmed that it would not move, and then with a bit of pressure, broke free and would rotate, full and free with no subsequent engine RPM response. Fortunately it was stuck just below a normal cruise power setting and I was able to return to an airport only about 6 miles away. As an aside, I always encouraged my students to include the throttle in the pre-start checks during the control freedom of movement checks as a lot of pilots didn't and that would bring up the subject of a fixed throttle. The only way I knew to deal with it is to close the fuel valve as most approaches are not possible due to RRPM fluctuations with collective inputs. So, suffice to say, my student knew what was coming next. After I returned to the airport, I requested the runway, and alerted them of my situation, but did not declare an emergency. I made one attempt to land with the engine running, but couldn't manage it, so after a briefing, on the next pass, over the threshold I had the student pull the mixture, close the fuel valve and shut off the radios and battery. After we touched down, I put the radio on and let tower know we were OK, and they told us to hover to parking. I don't think they fully understood the situation.

 

Lastly, and most recently I had an engine failure while working off shore. The interesting bit about this one was that it was my first day in that particular type. It was Friday the 13th and it was my 13th flight for the day. At the time, including my flight for that day, my total time in that type was a total of 7 hours in the past three months, so as you might imagine, I was less than proficient. Add to that, the blades spun in the "wrong" direction and all my previous time was spent spinning conventionally. The bottom line is I had an o-ring fail and cut oil to the engine. I was at 500', as was the local procedure going into Fourchon, and I was 14 miles from the beach on my way in. I got a warning light and a gong, letting me know I had low oil pressure. That was followed by a nose kick to the right and I followed with a quick down collective, aft cyclic, left pedal. So, I can tell you, in the moment, you don't think pedals, you simply react. I slowed down to about 80kts, although I couldn't tell you what was indicated, as I turned my eyes inside, but I was so unfamiliar with the cockpit lay out, I couldn't make heads or tails of any of the gauges, and at 500' downwind I didn't waste much time looking inside. On this particular helicopter there is no "Engine Out" light or audio, so I tried to raise the collective, on the odd chance that maybe I still had some power left, but I quickly got a low RRPM audio so I committed to the touchdown by popping the floats and commencing the decel. I made two MayDay calls and was picked up by a passing boat. I didn't even get my feet wet. My passenger, however, I put in a life raft, as he wasn't the most agile individual, and I thought he would have a hard time egressing if the floats were to fail and he had to rush into the raft. Up to that point, I hadn't done any touch downs in that type, nor had I ever landed on the water, let alone via and auto. The touchdown can be a bit difficult to judge as depth perception is skewed without surface references.

 

That's it, for now, with engine failures for me, but I could go on with hydraulic failures, stuck collective and a few other pressure/temp issues, if anyone's interested.

[Skids Up]

I think you missed the operative word "twins". And, I don't believe they are all singles.

 

You're right. I did miss the word "twins". I need to read more carefully.

 

But the 204, 205, & 214 (left out the "B") are singles...

 

Also, pretty sure that I'm safe in saying that autos are practiced in the 212 (twin) here in the land north of the 49th. Annually, as part of the recurrent training.

[delorean]

I was taking a few friends for a downtown St. Louis tour in a R44 about 3 years ago. About 10 minutes into the flight, I noticed pulling close to MCP, yet only doing about 100 knots. A quick gauge scan showed the oil temp and cylinder head temp pegged and the oil pressure dropping off.

 

I made a landing on historic Francis Field at Washington University (site of the 1904 Olympic Games during the World's Fair.) WashU is now considered an "Ivy league" school so you can figure what kind of ruckus this developed.

 

After fire trucks, ambulances, police, FAA, school trustees & board members, etc., we got a ferry permit the next day. Oil level was fine, no metal in the filter, compression was good, and we determined that it was a stuck vernotherm (sp?) that didn't allow some or all of the oil through the cooler. We replaced it, and never had the problem again.

 

All the attention was bad, but the worse part was having the boss yelling at me to let it cool off, then fly it home--"Plenty of places to land between there and the airport if it gets hot again!" Yeah right.....and the FAA inspector told me that I wouldn't have a pilot's license if I attempted to fly an aircraft with a known engine problem (w/o a ferry permit).

[C of G]

You're right. I did miss the word "twins". I need to read more carefully.

 

But the 204, 205, & 214 (left out the "B") are singles...

 

Also, pretty sure that I'm safe in saying that autos are practiced in the 212 (twin) here in the land north of the 49th. Annually, as part of the recurrent training.

 

 

I was thinking 214ST. My mistake. Any idea why 2 ONE 4, then? I had thought that meant twin in Bell speak. I know of some twins that prohibit autorotation training, but it's interesting to think of other problems that would require an autorotation, other than mechanical engine failures. Thanks.

[GLSNightPilot]

Down here the only time we do full-down autos in mediums is in the sim. I've done a lot of them there, but seldom in the aircraft.