Over charging flight times???

[flingwing206]

instrament training might be a waste of money for me because like you said, i will need 200 hours to instruct anyway, is this correct.

An instrument rating is rapidly becoming mandatory if you want to find a job that pays, and I know a lot of schools that will only hire CFII's. Additionally, as it is arguably the hardest rating in flying, it is a measure of your work ethic and discipline. The instrument rating will pay for itself.

simulator time is expensive and seems to be a waste of money for the hours that you fly is what really counts, am I right????

...half right. FTD training time (you not find actual sims at the schools flying R22s or CBi's) costs about 1/3 actual time. If you are training at a 141 school for your IFR rating (and I highly recommend that you do), you can get the IFR done with sharply reduced aircraft time (as compared to Pt 61). Most 141 IFR programs include the FTD in their program - using the "sim" can save you huge amounts of cash.

 

Now up onto the soapbox. Listen up y'all. Becoming a professional helicopter pilot isn't cheap, nor is it easy. There are no short cuts, and the profession will, one way or another, weed out the folks who cut corners in training, preparation, or planning. This process starts the first time you walk into your new flight school, and it doesn't end until your career does. There's a lot of passion left in the job, but not so much glamour. You need to be in it because you have a drive to be the best professional pilot possible - if you don't, then it may turn out to be a poor investment of your time and money.

[aaron]

I feel your pain, except I get raped w/ ground instruction instead of flight time. I started getting instruction at Helistream (SNA) and in EVERY instance, they charge an hour or more for ground instruction even though I only receive about 20 minutes or so of actual instruction. Seems like they are charging for me being on the premises.

 

Anyhow, are you getting shafted by them charging more than what the hobbs says?

 

As an apology to Helistream for my previous post, I wanted to give their perspective as expressed to me by Rod (pilot @ Helistream). Having been a student at two other flight schools at LGB, I was used to being billed ground only for actual instruction, so when I started at Helistream, it came as a surprise to be billed for the entire time on site.

 

According to Rod, students are charged whatever time they spend with a CFI (including ground instruction, pre and post flight briefing, preflight inspection, etc.) so that the CFI can be compensated for their entire time – just as how a doctor or lawyer would charge for their services. Had I understood the billing practices before, I would not have been so quick to criticize.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone and I apologize for taking out my frustration on an public forum rather than addressing it with Helistream. The instruction I received was excellent, and they are a professional group of people.

Edited January 5, 2007 by aaron

[blave]

A couple points:

 

I am guesstimating that I have received 200-250 hours of instruction, between fixed wing private/instrument and helicopter private/commercial ratings. As far as the aircraft is concerned, I have always been charged for, and logged in my log book, the aircraft's Hobbs time. As you know, how this is counted depends on the a/c (S300 - a certain MP; R44 - lifted collective) but that's what I pay for and log. To me that's pretty simple.

 

Regarding CFI time - I actually had it really good during my private fixed-wing training, as I was only charged for Hobbs time. Any on-the-ground time was (as far as I can recall) not charged for. That kinda spoiled me for the later times when certain CFIs charged me their rate from "handshake to handshake" (i.e. from showing up and meeting them to the time I left). I think that some CFIs take this concept too far, but as I love to talk about aviation with anyone who will listen and talk, I have to control myself and clearly delineate (both to myself and to the CFI) the time that we're "on the clock".

 

Given the pathetic hourly rate that my helicopter CFI is paid, I try to make sure he's compensated for all productive hours and portions thereof that we spend together. Anything more or less for him *or* Hobbs time on the aircraft is not the way it should be done.

 

Dave Blevins

[GoodGrief]

Things can be so easy

 

In europe we fly by the clock.

Student pulls collective -> you take the time.

Final stop -> you take the time

 

difference gives flight time in minutes.

 

depending on the school the student pays flight time, see above, or block time which usually is flight time plus 2 minutes ( for the fuel consumption on runup and shutdown ).

 

 

GG