Who paid and what?

[LB11]

I was just curious, who paid for the flight school themselves.

 

Of those who had normal paying jobs? I.E. Not Doctors and lawyers.

 

Did you save the money? Go through school slowly paying a little at a time?

 

Get the loan?

 

Is anyone with the loan having trouble paying it off?

[Gunner]

I was just curious, who paid for the flight school themselves.

 

Of those who had normal paying jobs? I.E. Not Doctors and lawyers.

 

Did you save the money? Go through school slowly paying a little at a time?

 

Get the loan?

 

Is anyone with the loan having trouble paying it off?

 

 

Took me 2.5 years to get to a CFI... but I have no debt. I work full time and am not a professional pilot, yet.... Flew most every weekend when the WX is good and in the summers after work.

 

Was a long road but it was fun and I still learn something on every flight.

[Gerhardt]

My regular job pays the mortgage and puts food on the table for the two kids. I don't fly much in the summer because of a second job that pays for flying in the fall and winter. It's paid for 350 fixed-wing hours and 80 rotory, finishing rotory CPL now.

[Pogue]

Working my way through with an assist from the VA and AZ National Guard. It's slower (I fly twice a week, usually) and takes some extra hours to keep the proficiency up, but it's keeping me out of debt.

[RotorWeed]

I work a normal management job with a small company. I Paid as I went for both helicopter and fixed wing ratings. My advice is DON’T GET A LOAN. Save your money and pay as you go. It is much cheaper that way. My 2 cents.

 

RDW

[Superman]

I also paid as I went, both the fixed wing and rotor. Work the day job for food and shelter, got lucky and got a part time flying job in multi engine airplanes, Ya know a real glory job flying around the Great Lakes in February in the middle of the night hauling bags of worthless paper. Also work the farm seasons as an equipment operator, work till 5:00 then climb in a tractor and run until midnight or so for a few months.

 

I did borrow some of the money, but only to pay for the AIDS that I picked up while flying

(if you don't know...... AIDS = Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome..... )

 

If you can accept that its going to take a few Years, I would pay as you go. Just my . 02

 

Good Luck

Clark

[John90290]

I work full time, fly weekends and one day a week at oh-dark thirty. (sneak in bit late to work on those days ) It seems slow sometimes and it's a bit of a pain in the ars as well but I guess one knows they really want to achieve a goal if one goes through some hardship and sacrifice to get there.

 

Hang on, let me climb onto my soap box....ok..all set ---

 

Don't' get a loan, you'll pe paying for it one way or another the rest of your life. Interest is defined a the price you are willing to pay for future goods now. It's a price for your impatience.

 

I make sure i get the most out of every lesson because it's a big, big, dent in each of my pay checks and i know i could be spending that money a lot of other ways (my freinds love to remind me of that )

 

Bottom-line IMO, people don't value what they don't have to work for. Would you treat your porsche better if you slaved away in the office for 2 years to pay for it or if you walked in to the dealership and walked out in under an hour with the same car?

[Tenacious T]

I took the loan, deferred until 6 months after completion of training. If I was younger or in a different position in life I would love to have not taken the loan. I knew I was fully committed to becoming a working helicopter pilot and wanted to get through my training as quickly as possible. I work full time, my job pays the bills but would not cover training. I plan on aggressively paying on my loan and refinancing once I am working as a pilot. If I can work in the GOM on a 14/14 schedule I plan on working on my time off either as an CFI or in my current field and dedicating that money to loan payments. No doubt it's better not to go into debt but I feel when you have a chance to follow your passion in life you do whatever it takes. Most great rewards don't come without hard work and some risk.

[gft]

My Dad always said-

 

"Interest and rent are to be collected, not paid."

 

I've learned over the years that he was correct.

 

I'd only borrow for a money making investment, ie: real estate or a home.

 

Especially don't borrow and give the full amount to some school in advance.

 

Good luck and remember to enjoy life.

 

gft

[amenra]

Paying as I go, taking a little longer than I would like, but I can say that if anything happens that keeps me from my dream, I will not be paying for it for the rest of my life regretting it.

[Gerhardt]

I'm a little surprised to see that most responders are paying as we go. Glad, but surprised. I just don't want the people that are financing their training/education to feel awkard about it. If I was 20 years younger and had no option except to finance my training I'd do it in a minute. Although, I'd try the military route first.

[montu]

Unlike all you guys that have good paying jobs. I cant afford 225/hour on a 9.30 an hour paycheck. My training would take forever. I want to get started soon so I got to take a loan out.

 

Jordan

[blave]

Unlike all you guys that have good paying jobs. I cant afford 225/hour on a 9.30 an hour paycheck. My training would take forever. I want to get started soon so I got to take a loan out.

 

Jordan

 

Jordan,

 

I don't want to pee on your hovering autorotations, but you really need to do some math to determine if you're doing the right thing, and not something that you will kick yourself for down the road.

 

Your math should include the scenario of taking out that $50K-$80K loan, getting trained up to CFI or CFII, and then not being able to secure a flying job for a while. THEN, assuming that you do finally find a instruction position that actually pays something more than starvation wages, consider trying to pay off that loan while making mouse nuts as an instructor, while still being able to pay for a place to live and a vehicle to get you from that place you live to the airport.

 

It all boils down to

 

pay, minus

INCOME TAX, minus

loan payment, minus

rent, minus

car payment, minus

food and personal entertainment costs

 

and then factor in some amount of $ to account for those curveballs that life seems to throw us all.

 

I am pretty sure that the math will reveal the unfortunate reality that you should save up the $ IN ADVANCE to get your ratings, and not incur debt in the process.

 

This is UnFun Math, but it is the reality of the way rotary wing aviation works, most of the time.

 

Does anyone disagree?

 

 

 

Dave Blevins

[slick1537]

If there are no go paying jobs in your area get a second job and save. Luckily my job lets me take as many overtime hours as I want, getting like $22 an hour for ever overtime hour, unfortunatly I am seasonal so after christmas I will probably be in the same boat as you getting next to nothing. Here is the thing, you can make peanuts for your job now, and save for flight training, and have that money incase you need it for an emergency, or you can make peanuts being a CFI, and make that $900 a monthly payment.

[LB11]

Jordan,

 

I don't want to pee on your hovering autorotations, but you really need to do some math to determine if you're doing the right thing, and not something that you will kick yourself for down the road.

 

Your math should include the scenario of taking out that $50K-$80K loan, getting trained up to CFI or CFII, and then not being able to secure a flying job for a while. THEN, assuming that you do finally find a instruction position that actually pays something more than starvation wages, consider trying to pay off that loan while making mouse nuts as an instructor, while still being able to pay for a place to live and a vehicle to get you from that place you live to the airport.

 

It all boils down to

 

pay, minus

INCOME TAX, minus

loan payment, minus

rent, minus

car payment, minus

food and personal entertainment costs

 

and then factor in some amount of $ to account for those curveballs that life seems to throw us all.

 

I am pretty sure that the math will reveal the unfortunate reality that you should save up the $ IN ADVANCE to get your ratings, and not incur debt in the process.

 

This is UnFun Math, but it is the reality of the way rotary wing aviation works, most of the time.

 

Does anyone disagree?

Dave Blevins

 

 

Unfortunately, this is how my math adds up. Thats part of the reason for this post. I hear alot of people talking about the loans, but not how they pay them back and etc. Thats probably why sally mae is the only company left giving the loans. No one else was getting the money back.

 

 

Did school used to be cheaper a few years ago?

[Scott83]

I haven't posted here in a while, but after reading this topic, I thought I would share my thoughts.

 

 

To make the statement "pay as you go, do not get a loan" is good advice, but doesn't work in every situation. In fact, paying as you go can in some circumstances end up costing more. Heres why:

 

Lets use a young 21 year old as an example. He's pretty fresh out of high school and has no real

work experience. He has wanted to be a helicopter pilot since a young age and is ready to pursue

his career. He read this post on vertical reference and decided to pay as you go, while working his

job at a whopping 10.00 an hr. (remember he has no work experience). So 10.00 hr after a 160 hour

work month equals to 1600 before taxes, etc.

 

So lets say that he found a school that rents the R22 at 200 an hour. If he had no bills and was illegally

being paid under the table, he could build 8 hours a month. 8 hours isn't even a realistic figure considering

everyone has expenses to pay.

 

Here is the problem:

 

Being a helicopter pilot requires proficiency. The more you fly and more ground school you do while flying, the more proficient you will be. Less than 8 hours a month makes it very difficult to stay proficient, which in turn means you will be spending more time and money regaining that proficiency.

 

Getting a loan for school will definitely cost you. It's a huge investment, in which you should spend a long time researching and finding ways to pay on it, along with making sure that you definitely want to do this for a career. The good thing is...you get the loan and you fly your pants off, you stay proficient, and you get your ratings quick. This in turn gets you out in the field quicker.

 

 

So to sum up my novel I wrote here....Do your research, assume nothing, and know what you are getting into before you sign on the dotted line.

 

 

Oh and one other recommendation. If you can, do a college degree program while pursuing your career as a pilot. There are more financing options and it's anothing thing to add to your resume.

 

Fly Safe!

 

Scott

[FlyNHighNFast]

I plan on paying as I go when I start next year, I did the same for my fixed wing training 15 years ago. When I get back my interest free loan to Uncle Sam, it should be more than enough to take me through the PPL with all expenses covered.

 

My philosophy is the same as GFT's dad's. I hate paying interest on anything. Debt free is the way to be and anyone can do it if they have a job and self control, to heck with keeping up with the neighbors, increasing your net worth should be the real goal.

 

Marlon

[svtcobra66]

I haven't posted here in a while, but after reading this topic, I thought I would share my thoughts.

To make the statement "pay as you go, do not get a loan" is good advice, but doesn't work in every situation. In fact, paying as you go can in some circumstances end up costing more. Heres why:

 

Lets use a young 21 year old as an example. He's pretty fresh out of high school and has no real

work experience. He has wanted to be a helicopter pilot since a young age and is ready to pursue

his career. He read this post on vertical reference and decided to pay as you go, while working his

job at a whopping 10.00 an hr. (remember he has no work experience). So 10.00 hr after a 160 hour

work month equals to 1600 before taxes, etc.

 

So lets say that he found a school that rents the R22 at 200 an hour. If he had no bills and was illegally

being paid under the table, he could build 8 hours a month. 8 hours isn't even a realistic figure considering

everyone has expenses to pay.

 

Here is the problem:

 

Being a helicopter pilot requires proficiency. The more you fly and more ground school you do while flying, the more proficient you will be. Less than 8 hours a month makes it very difficult to stay proficient, which in turn means you will be spending more time and money regaining that proficiency.

 

Getting a loan for school will definitely cost you. It's a huge investment, in which you should spend a long time researching and finding ways to pay on it, along with making sure that you definitely want to do this for a career. The good thing is...you get the loan and you fly your pants off, you stay proficient, and you get your ratings quick. This in turn gets you out in the field quicker.

So to sum up my novel I wrote here....Do your research, assume nothing, and know what you are getting into before you sign on the dotted line.

Oh and one other recommendation. If you can, do a college degree program while pursuing your career as a pilot. There are more financing options and it's anothing thing to add to your resume.

 

Fly Safe!

 

Scott

 

 

I don't know about 8 hours a month to stay proficient. I think some people can go longer than others in between, and I agree that in the beginning proficiency will require doing it a lot. I trained flying once a week most of the time, which is obviously 4 hours per month, and went through to my commercial and ifr tickets, now i'm slowly doing some ground work for my cfi, flying every few weeks to keep the rust off (trying anyway...). I agree with most of the posts that loans for flight training are bad, and that it is much better to pay as you go than to lose a ton in interest to a loan company that you will be paying back for a long, long, long time. my .02

[montu]

If I payed as I go with my current job I may be able to fly 2 hours a month or 4 if I'm lucky. That would take forever to get ratings plus the fact I would have to relearn things from previous flights. I dont know what to do. Should I save up for like 10 years? I wanted to start early with my heli career not start when im 30-35 years old. But it looks like most of you would say to save up or pay as I go but I dont think I would do well that way but of course I would'nt be in debt. Unless I can land a really good job paying 15-20 and hour pay as I go would be hard.

 

Jordan

Edited December 9, 2006 by montu

[fry]

"...because the limits for federal loans have not increased commensurately with the costs of higher education, more students have been forced to seek nonguaranteed private loans to close the funding gap. Thus, Sallie is in a great position to offer its private loans to borrowers, and this has resulted in an average annual growth rate in its private loan portfolio of almost 40% since 2001. Private loans are also roughly 3 times more profitable than federal loans, thanks to higher interest rates, even after adjusting for credit risk."

 

From an analyst's discussion of Sallie Mae as an investment. "3 times more profitable...thanks to higher interest rates"; the investors should at least send you guys a holiday greeting card.

[Tenacious T]

Bottom line, I will do whatever it takes to make my dream a reality. I don't expect it to be easy and I don't expect to become rich, but as far as becoming a working helicopter pilot I will make it happen. If others have succeeded so can I. Those who pay as they go and don't need loans should consider themselves lucky, not superior to those who have to put themselves in debt to achieve their goals.

[fry]

Bottom line, I will do whatever it takes to make my dream a reality. I don't expect it to be easy and I don't expect to become rich, but as far as becoming a working helicopter pilot I will make it happen. If others have succeeded so can I. Those who pay as they go and don't need loans should consider themselves lucky, not superior to those who have to put themselves in debt to achieve their goals.

 

"Bottom line", that's the kind of thinking that bankers, credit card companies, flight training "academies" and their investors just love. And they all really do want you to succeed and get that "dream" job...because they are going to be skimming at least 10% right off the top of your paycheck for a decade or more.

[tvman345]

Your math should include the scenario of taking out that $50K-$80K loan...

 

Are you crazy? I got my CFI in May, started instructing, and had my II by July. It cost me 38K. 50K, alright, maybe if you have a hard time, but 80K is out of control.

 

"Bottom line", that's the kind of thinking that bankers, credit card companies, flight training "academies" and their investors just love. And they all really do want you to succeed and get that "dream" job...because they are going to be skimming at least 10% right off the top of your paycheck for a decade or more.

 

I suppose you saved up and bought everything you own cash? We live in a society built on leverage my friend, don't knock it.

 

Want to rationallize the cost? Stack it up against costs for other types of education. How about $37,950 per YEAR to attend Harvard. The average college undergrad carries 18K in debt. More than 50% carry debt of 40K or more. Federal loans are now 6.8% interest. Graduate students are carrying debt in the neighborhood of 90K.

 

My loan is for 35K with an 8% rate. Puts me right in the middle and on par with any other professional these days. The only difference is I fly helicopters, they all have boring jobs.

Edited December 20, 2006 by tvman345

[Tenacious T]

"Bottom line", that's the kind of thinking that bankers, credit card companies, flight training "academies" and their investors just love. And they all really do want you to succeed and get that "dream" job...because they are going to be skimming at least 10% right off the top of your paycheck for a decade or more.

 

Is it lonely up there in your ivory tower?

[fry]

Are you crazy? I got my CFI in May, started instructing, and had my II by July. It cost me 38K. 50K, alright, maybe if you have a hard time, but 80K is out of control.

I suppose you saved up and bought everything you own cash? We live in a society built on leverage my friend, don't knock it.

 

Want to rationallize the cost? Stack it up against costs for other types of education. How about $37,950 per YEAR to attend Harvard. The average college undergrad carries 18K in debt. More than 50% carry debt of 40K or more. Federal loans are now 6.8% interest. Graduate students are carrying debt in the neighborhood of 90K.

 

My loan is for 35K with an 8% rate. Puts me right in the middle and on par with any other professional these days. The only difference is I fly helicopters, they all have boring jobs.

 

You are absolutely correct..."80K is out of control". Certainly to incur a prudent amount of debt as an investment in yourself is a reasonable choice. But signing up for a $69.9k loan at 10% to 14% and deferring the interest for 18 months is just plain stupid. The heli flight training business went through a boom the last few years due to easy money and low interest rates. And the same thing happened as always happens in booms...too many folks got involved. The dot.com stock market boom and the no-down-interest-only home loan boom ended with huge money transfer from the buyers to the sellers & lenders. The training boom will end the same way...the sellers & lenders will get rich and the buyers will be making monthly payments for twenty years. And most of those buyers of training will never become working helicopter pilots.

 

Finally, comparing a university education (Harvard of all places) to a vocational pilot training program is nonsense. With one you come out with a broadbased education that will open doors to at least an upper middle class lifestyle. With the other you get a driver's license. A working helicopter pilot's position is not a profession, it is the equivalent of a heavy equipment driver in pay and lifestyle. To pay $70k for what amounts to less than a community college Associate's degree is nutz.