Starting Anew

[Scott Chambers]

After eight years (four enlisted, four officer) in the Air Force I've decided to seperate from the service. Nothing bad to say about it; It's just not the place for me. They have offered certain officers a voluntary seperation pay (VSP) that would, in my case, equate to about 70,000 - 75,000 dollars after taxes. I've pretty much made up my mind to go for a helicopter pilot commercial rating using the money from the VSP to pay for the school. I think I could knock out everything in about 16-20 weeks.

 

I do have a few questions about career progression. First, it appears that most students get their CFI rating and stay on with a school to gain flight hours. That sounds great but it seems impossible that every student could get hired on as a CFI upon completion of their flight school. Simple logic tells us that there can't be that many CFI slots available. For those of you out there, how hard was it to get hired as a CFI?

 

Second, I'm hearing horror stories about CFI's getting paid 12,000 a year. As a Captain in the Air Force I'm making about 60,000 a year. I'm more than willing to take a large pay-cut starting out as a pilot but 12,000 is ridiculious. Thats well below the poverty line. I made about that much working as a checker at a grocery store back in my college days.

 

Lastly, any advice on what to look for (and perhaps what to avoid) when shopping around for a school. I've done some online research and have been focusing on two schools; Vortex in Louisiana and Aquila in Florida (I'm currently stationed in Montana and desperately need to get away from the snow for a bit).

 

My dad think I'm just a little bit crazy for starting a new career this late in the game (I'm 32 y/o). I have an

Associates degree in Aircraft Technology and a Bachelors degree in Administrative Management. I'm not married nor do I have any children. Even if I somehow totally screw up and can't get a pilot's license I feel I have enough skills to pick up the pieces and move on successfully. Flying helicopters is something I've wanted to do since I was a Crew Chief back in my enlisted days. I see to many people abandon their dreams because they are afraid to take risks. Lookiing forward to flying with you all in the near future!

 

Scott

[gft]

Scott

Give Tomlinson Aviation a call regarding training.

They have excellent one on one training available in both Florida and North Carolina.

Their number is 877-359-4356. You can check out their website at: www.tomlinsonaviation.com

They are good people that have their students best interest in mind. I got my rotorcraft ticket there and really enjoyed the program.

 

Some advice- don't pick a school that requires full payment in advance for training and don't pick one that does mass training. Go with a school that offers one on one training and allows you to pay as you go.

Pick a school that has plenty of dependable equipment. It's a bitch to show up for a flight and find out the only aircraft is down for maintenance, etc.

 

Best of luck in your future endeavors, whatever they may be.

 

gft

[Pogue]

You might also try Quantum in Arizona - 480-814-8118. http://www.quantumhelicopters.com/. I'm really pleased with their program. Assuming you're going to be using your VA benefit you'll need to make sure whatever school you select is Part 141. Don't buy anyone's "We're going to be Part 141" - "going to be" won't get you any reimbursment. Also have you considered moving over to the National Guard and going with the Army helicopter program. I know you said the Air Force isn't for you, but the Army is a different culture. (A _really_ different culture...) :-)

[fatnlazy]

To bad you are tired of the big sky, there's an excellent RW flight school in laurel Mt. (Northern skies aviation 406-628-8264)

[rollthbns]

Lastly, any advice on what to look for (and perhaps what to avoid) when shopping around for a school. I've done some online research and have been focusing on two schools; Vortex in Louisiana and Aquila in Florida (I'm currently stationed in Montana and desperately need to get away from the snow for a bit).

 

My dad think I'm just a little bit crazy for starting a new career this late in the game (I'm 32 y/o). I have an

Associates degree in Aircraft Technology and a Bachelors degree in Administrative Management. I'm not married nor do I have any children. Even if I somehow totally screw up and can't get a pilot's license I feel I have enough skills to pick up the pieces and move on successfully. Flying helicopters is something I've wanted to do since I was a Crew Chief back in my enlisted days. I see to many people abandon their dreams because they are afraid to take risks. Lookiing forward to flying with you all in the near future!

 

Scott

 

Welcome Scott! I am by no means an expert as I have just started training myself. I just thought I would offer my view of Vortex, having visited them recently. I visited Vortex in New Iberia this past October, and paid a visit to the Air Logistics training facility as well just to check it out. I think Vortex is an awesome place to get your training. I chose a different school due to geographical and financial issues, but Vortex was definitely at the top of the list of the flight schools I visited out of my area. Joe and Mary Sheeran were both great, and the instructors I talked to were top notch. The facility is nice as well, and there were plenty of helicopters on the flight line. The airport where they are located has a lot of interesting air traffic between commercial airliners coming in for paint jobs, Air Logistics training, and a variety of Homeland Security aircaft coming and going.

 

Things to look for in a flight school - I think the major bases were covered by the other posters and I couldnt agree more. I looked for the one on one training, the pay as you go, EXCEPTIONAL (not just "good") maintenance, and the availability of helicopters as well as instructors. I chose to do my initial training at Civic Helicopters in Carlsbad, California. They fit the bill on all of the above, and I am excited about training with them.

 

It is true that pay as an instructor will not be what you are used to. I am coming from a career in IT, and the pay adjustment will be somewhat of a lifestyle change for sure, but well worth it. It seems to be all part of paying your dues so to speak. The pay in the industry will even be a bit of a cut for you in the beginning, but thankfully the trend seems to be rising salaries. The pay scales never made sense to me! Here you have absolute professionals with a high degree of specialized training doing difficult and challenging work, not being compensated accordingly. Hopefully all that will change, and operators will realize that the "joy of flying" still needs to be accompanied by appropriate compensation.

 

As far as age goes, no worries! There are quite a few of us older folks making the career change and following those long time dreams. Good luck to you in your evaluation and training!

[brushfire21]

Good luck with the school search, it can be exasperating at times. The only thing you may want to really look at is the time you have estimated. Not sure if the 16-20 weeks you mentioned is just for your PPL or PPL-CPL-CFI?

[Mitchell99]

Scott,

I was a Private Investigator before I started my training and I put together a list of questions that I asked each school as I visited. I have added a couple more as I have learned more. I can send you the list if you send me an email. Another thing I suggest to do is talk to as many professional pilots as you can. They can give you the best information you will ever get.

 

By the way, I started my training when I was 33.

 

Ed Mitchell

Mountain Air Helicopters

Logan, UT

[Scott Chambers]

Thanks everyone for your input. This is a bit of a scary time for me; leaving a secure job to start a new career can be very stressful (but also exciting). I'm thrilled at the idea of flying, which is something I've wanted to do for about 5 years now.

 

BTW are there any books that anyone would recommend me read while I wait to seperate from the Air Force. I've got six months before I get out so I may as well use that time getting "educated".

 

Also I have a question concerning the GI bill. I would have asked the VA department but I've been unable to contact a human on the phone and they aren't responding to my email. I used the GI bill for about a year when I was getting my comission. They paid me a flat amount each month of about $1000. Everything I've read says that the GI Bill can compensate me up to 60% of flight training after my private license. How does that work exactly, because even 60% of flight training costs would far exceed the max. GI Bill monthly payout.

 

Thanks

 

Scott

[Pogue]

[quote name='Scott Chambers' date='Jan 4 2007, 19:08 ' post='38923'

Also I have a question concerning the GI bill. I would have asked the VA department but I've been unable to contact a human on the phone and they aren't responding to my email. I used the GI bill for about a year when I was getting my comission. They paid me a flat amount each month of about $1000. Everything I've read says that the GI Bill can compensate me up to 60% of flight training after my private license. How does that work exactly, because even 60% of flight training costs would far exceed the max. GI Bill monthly payout.

 

The figure it a little differently for flight training purposes. There will be a maximum number of years benefit you can get. When you apply to the VA for benefits (as soon as possible after you get out) they'll send you a letter of eligability stating how many months of benefit you have left. For flight training that won't usually be an issue if you're doing a full time profesional pilot program. They will not pay for the Private Pilot license. You have to be concurrently enrolled in IFR and Commercial for them to pay for the IFR. And you have to have the Class 2 medical before you start on any training they'll cover. Not a big deal - the school you select (remember to make sure it's a 141 school!) should know exactly how to do it. They will pay 60 percent of the "approved charges".

 

From M-22, Part IX chapter 4

 

"c. Maximum Hours

 

(1) The FAA does not establish maximum hours of flight and ground training for courses.

 

(a) For VA purposes, the maximum number of dual flight training hours that may be approved is 120 percent of the FAA's minimum hourly requirement. A flight school or training center must submit a FSDO-approved TCO and syllabus or a training specification document for each course they want approved. The approval may not be for more hours than the FSDO-approved TCO or training specification document. If the FSDO-approved TCO and syllabus or training specification document is for more than 120 percent of the FAA minimums, the SAA or the ELR acting as the SAA will restrict the approval to 120 percent, unless the Director, Education Service, grants a waiver. (See subparagraph f below.) (See Appendix C for minimum and maximum hours for courses in the part 141 appendices. See Appendix D for examples of course approvals involving the FAA minimum and VA maximum hours.)

 

( The maximum hours for solo flight training in the commercial pilot certification course is the minimum number of hours required by the FAA with one exception. The number of hours of solo flight training may be increased so that the total dual and solo hours equals the minimum flight training hours required for the certificate. (See Appendix C for additional information.)

 

© The maximum hours for ground school may not exceed the number of hours contained in the FSDO-approved TCO and syllabus or training specification document.

 

(d) The maximum hours for preflight briefings and post-flight critiques may not exceed 25 percent of the total hours of flight training.

 

(2) The FAA has established maximum hours for flight training conducted in flight simulators and flight training devices for some courses. The maximum number of hours of dual flight training in a flight simulator or flight training device that may be approved is the maximum number of hours of instruction permitted by part 61 for a course when:

 

(a) The course is offered entirely or partially by flight simulator or flight training device by a flight training center with a part 142 training center certificate; and

 

( Part 61 contains a maximum number of hours of instruction by flight simulator or flight training device for the course.

 

(3) If the course is offered entirely or partially by flight simulator or flight training device and part 61 does not specify a maximum number of hours, the SAA or the ELR acting as the SAA will restrict the number of hours in the course to the number in the training specification document. See Appendix E for a comparison of the differences between parts 141 and 142 for hours in flight simulators and flight training devices.

 

d. Minimum Hours. Part 141 appendices prescribe the minimum hourly requirements for flight courses. Part 141 revised allows a flight school or training center to develop a course that will get students to their objectives without regard to the number of hours in the appendices. The SAA or the ELR acting as the SAA may approve a course with less than the minimum number of hours in the appendices.

 

e. Less than the Minimum Hours. A flight school or training center with examining authority may be approved to offer a course with less than the minimum number of hours specified in the appendices. The flight school or training center will develop a course that will get students to their objectives. This may result in a flight school or training center customizing its courses for their students. A flight school or a training center has the option of requesting approval of courses that meet the minimum requirements in the appendices and certifying students for fewer hours, or requesting approval of courses with fewer than the minimum requirements."

 

If you search the VA web sites manuals & regulations for M22-4 it will tell you more than any normal human being would ever want to know about how they figure this stuff out.

 

Hope this helps....

[mechanic]

Hey Scott,

 

The short of it is, if you used about a year? You need to find out how many months you have left, you can get the VA to tell you how many months you have left..Total benefits is 36 months. The VA charges 1 month for every $1075.00, for active duty GI Bill, worth of approved flight/ground school charges. The school, part 141 only, knows exactly how many hrs their course is approved for. You have to watch out for the "60% of our Professional Course" spill. I have had several schools tell me that, which is WRONG..

 

Thats the short version.

 

Later,

former USAF enlisted

 

M22-4

Edited January 5, 2007 by mechanic

[Whirlwind]

I just thought I would offer my view of Vortex, having visited them recently. I visited Vortex in New Iberia this past October, and paid a visit to the Air Logistics training facility as well just to check it out. I think Vortex is an awesome place to get your training. I chose a different school due to geographical and financial issues, but Vortex was definitely at the top of the list of the flight schools I visited out of my area. Joe and Mary Sheeran were both great, and the instructors I talked to were top notch. The facility is nice as well, and there were plenty of helicopters on the flight line. The airport where they are located has a lot of interesting air traffic between commercial airliners coming in for paint jobs, Air Logistics training, and a variety of Homeland Security aircaft coming and going.

I visited Vortex last summer and came away with an entirely different impression. The place seemed in disarray. The office area in the old terminal building was pretty ratty. Although they knew well in advance that I was coming for a visit, they did not have anyone available to talk to me or show me around. I heard not-too-flattering information about the ability to get advanced checkrides and the real likelihood of getting an Air-log apprenticeship from a current student. And for the icing on the cake - when I was introduced to Joe Sheeran as a prospective student, Joe just grunted and continued to sit on his butt in the chair. He didn't even say hello or get up to welcome me.

 

Needless to say, I'm spending my money elsewhere. I'm at Mauna Loa Helicopters where people are genuinely happy to see you. I'd also strongly recommend Quantum Helicopters in Chandler, AZ for a quality training program. I also visited Tomlinson in Ormond Beach, Florida and I'd recommend them in a heartbeat. Very impressive, if you don't mind training in the CB300.

[james28]

that's funny. i've talked to several people and never heard anything negative in the least. are you just recruiting for mauna loa or are you being serious. if serious, could you please elaborate a little.

[Whirlwind]

I'm not recruiting for Mauna Loa. As I said, I'd highly recommend Quantum and Tomlinson as well.

 

I visited Vortex about 3 months after they had relocated to New Iberia. Even giving them credit for the difficulty in moving their operations from hurricane-ravaged Mississippi to Louisiana, their set-up in the run-down old airport building was very unimpressive to say the least. Folks I talked to seemed very disinterested and unorganized. Definitely no professional feel to the place. Joe was "entertaining" an old political chum and wasn't interested in meeting prospective students at the time even though he was just sitting and not involved in a big converstaion or anything. I figured that if I was going to drop $50k+ at his flight school, the least he could do was get up to say "hello". I guess he thought otherwise.

 

The student I talked to said that it was fairly easy to get check-rides for private pilot testing, but that he had been waiting for weeks to take an advanced check-ride because the examiner was busy with other "things". He was pretty frustrated with the whole delay. I realize that many folks have visited and trained at the school and are very happy with the result. It really rubbed me the wrong way, and that's why I'm training elsewhere.