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Posted

I am currently taking flight training in the R-22 and am considering switching over to "the dark side" (ie. the Schweizer ;) ) for the remainder of my training.

 

I am looking ahead to the time when I will be instructing to build hours and am concerned about the ease of employment once I finish my CFII.

 

Has anyone done the research to determine the relative number of instructing positions available for CFI's in the Robinson versus Schweizer? I know there are a lot more schools that use the Robbie. Any advice would be appreciated.

Posted
I am currently taking flight training in the R-22 and am considering switching over to "the dark side" (ie. the Schweizer ;) ) for the remainder of my training.

 

I am looking ahead to the time when I will be instructing to build hours and am concerned about the ease of employment once I finish my CFII.

 

Has anyone done the research to determine the relative number of instructing positions available for CFI's in the Robinson versus Schweizer? I know there are a lot more schools that use the Robbie. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Somebody is going to kill me for this reply, but here it goes. Honestly man, it really doesn't matter. There are a lot more Robbie schools out there than Schweizer, but there is still a fair amount of them too. Your best bet is not so much the helo you fly in, but how much you like your school and the quality of training your receiving. Most schools hire students from their own programs to be CFI/IIs, so don't worry too much about employment. Also, don't become so near-sighted (like many on this site) and think that your career will revolve around your experience in an R22 or 300CB. Not too long after you get your first CFI job, you'll have that 500-1000 hours and be stepping into a Jetranger, then an A-star, then a S76; you get the drift:)

 

And yes, I have flown both helos, and I do have my preferences; but I'm not going to tell and start yet another dumb Robbie vs Schweizer debate on this site. Both are good helos and will get you where you want to go. Good luck!

Posted

Everyone I talk to that has tried the Robinson and the Schweizer, just about always say the same things. They are both good machines and each has their individual quirks. Try them both. See which one suits you the best. See which one feels right to you. You'll be in them for the first part of your career. The second phase will be in other, probably larger, ships. Time in both will only add to your resume'. I have flown the Schweizers many hours. I am too large for the 22. They look like fun, though, and would fly them if I could just get in the door. Oh well, my wife says that she is going to see that I loose some of my insulation this year. We'll see.

bossman

Posted
Has anyone done the research to determine the relative number of instructing positions available for CFI's in the Robinson versus Schweizer? I know there are a lot more schools that use the Robbie. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

 

You answered your own question, more schools using R22=more R22 instructing jobs. Not to say there aren't Schweizer instruction jobs but they are fewer. You will be much more likely to have to relocate depending on where you live. That being said I say go for whichever your preference is. + side of the 300 at least you don't have to deal with SFAR 73 req.

Posted

If you can get time in both the 22 and the 300 you'll be in good shape. Seems to be alot of operators with both. Everyone has their preferences as to which is the better machine, personally I like the 300, but I am in a 22 now, no real complaints, other than no room in the cabin. :ph34r:

 

Fly Safe

Clark B)

Posted
I agree with Tenacious T about the sfar 73, not to mention the Robinson safety course stuff!!! :P

Just out of curiosity, what's the big deal about SFAR 73? I can understand it being an inconvenience if you want to get your Private and rent an R22 right off the bat. I don't see how it negatively impacts anyone going the professional pilot route. By the time you're established as a CFI you've likely already got more than 200 hours, and the required training on low G, low inertia rotor issues, flying san governor, etc don't seem like such a bad thing to me...

Posted
Somebody is going to kill me for this reply, but here it goes. Honestly man, it really doesn't matter. There are a lot more Robbie schools out there than Schweizer, but there is still a fair amount of them too. Your best bet is not so much the helo you fly in, but how much you like your school and the quality of training your receiving. Most schools hire students from their own programs to be CFI/IIs, so don't worry too much about employment. Also, don't become so near-sighted (like many on this site) and think that your career will revolve around your experience in an R22 or 300CB. Not too long after you get your first CFI job, you'll have that 500-1000 hours and be stepping into a Jetranger, then an A-star, then a S76; you get the drift:)

 

And yes, I have flown both helos, and I do have my preferences; but I'm not going to tell and start yet another dumb Robbie vs Schweizer debate on this site. Both are good helos and will get you where you want to go. Good luck!

 

Good points - Thanks for the advice.

At my current school, I see recently-graduated instructors waiting for openings so they can begin teaching and was a bit concerned about the ease of getting that first job. My thought was that if there's too many Robbie instructors with all the schools that use them, then how hard would it be to find an instructing job in a Schweizer? It could jusy be that they only want to teach here and are willing to wait rather than get a job sooner by relocating (I'll have to ask them).

 

I only have a 1/2 hour demo flight in the Schweizer (after I had 15 hours in the R22), and found it easy to fly. The safety of the R22 during my training and instructing phases is also a concern - If I don't kill myself, my students will be trying later! ;)

As a side note - At the end of December, I signed up for the Robinson safety course, and the first available open slot was already in October of this year!!!! :o Now 2007 is almost booked solid. I'm on the waiting list for an earlier slot. :blink:

Posted

Just a quick question while we are on the topic of comparing.

 

The R22 has a seat weight limit of 230 lbs. What is it on the schweizer?

 

Also, does it matter (just for a ppl) if you weigh 228 lbs? Does this negatively affect you in anyway?

 

I dont, im 200lbs (and going down :P ) but im just curious.

 

Lastly, if i had a pplh for the r22 with say 60 hours...what would it take to get checked out on a 300? How much?

Posted
Just a quick question while we are on the topic of comparing.

 

The R22 has a seat weight limit of 230 lbs. What is it on the schweizer?

 

Also, does it matter (just for a ppl) if you weigh 228 lbs? Does this negatively affect you in anyway?

 

I dont, im 200lbs (and going down :P ) but im just curious.

 

Lastly, if i had a pplh for the r22 with say 60 hours...what would it take to get checked out on a 300? How much?

 

I could be WAY off, since im a total rookie, but here goes! (I hope Fry doesnt read this.)

 

As I understand it, seat weight refers to the physical capbilities of the actual seat in the event of hard landings, etc. Now, having said that, good luck in an R22 with two people at 228. In the 300, those same two people have a little bit more flexibility in what they work on. Im ashamed to admit I cant quote the seat weight for the 300, and my POH is at home. (Sorry)

 

I only say that to say this... At 200+, us bigger guys will be relegated to training small children, Olestra Flockhart, pets, and people who weigh 98lbs soaking wet with rocks in their pockets if we elect to go R22. It will take you a bit longer as an instructor since you have to be a bit more picky about who you can train. In the 300, you can take anyone who comes through the door. As long as they fit through the door.

 

I am training primarily in the 300 beacuse Im a bigger dude. Im under the seat weight for the Robinson, BUT I would need an anorexic instructor. I do plan to get Robinson time as my training progresses in order to maximize my employability should I live long enough to reach CFI.

 

As far as getting checked out, Im not sure what that would take. The SFAR 73 thing only applies to the Robinson, so.... not sure how to answer that one!

 

Blue Skies!

Posted
I could be WAY off, since im a total rookie, but here goes! (I hope Fry doesnt read this.)

 

As I understand it, seat weight refers to the physical capbilities of the actual seat in the event of hard landings, etc. Now, having said that, good luck in an R22 with two people at 228. In the 300, those same two people have a little bit more flexibility in what they work on. Im ashamed to admit I cant quote the seat weight for the 300, and my POH is at home. (Sorry)

 

The seat weight for the R22 is actually 240, and I believe that's total for seat and baggage. The magic number is around 400 lbs total for both seats. Higher than that and you start running into GC limits. The exact number will vary per ship, of course.

Posted
The R22 has a seat weight limit of 230 lbs.

240 according to my POH.

 

That being said, when I did my checkride in a Beta II, I think I was at 195, the DE was 205, and when I ran a W&B I figured I could only take something like 11 gallons and the empty tanks CG was within about 1/4" of the forward CG limit!

Posted
Good points - Thanks for the advice.

At my current school, I see recently-graduated instructors waiting for openings so they can begin teaching and was a bit concerned about the ease of getting that first job. My thought was that if there's too many Robbie instructors with all the schools that use them, then how hard would it be to find an instructing job in a Schweizer? It could jusy be that they only want to teach here and are willing to wait rather than get a job sooner by relocating (I'll have to ask them).

 

I only have a 1/2 hour demo flight in the Schweizer (after I had 15 hours in the R22), and found it easy to fly. The safety of the R22 during my training and instructing phases is also a concern - If I don't kill myself, my students will be trying later! ;)

As a side note - At the end of December, I signed up for the Robinson safety course, and the first available open slot was already in October of this year!!!! :o Now 2007 is almost booked solid. I'm on the waiting list for an earlier slot. :blink:

 

 

You're exactly right about the rigidity in relocating by the instructors. A lot of times, new CFIs are afraid to go to other schools with the worry that they won't be able to adapt to a different school. Also, they also worry about having to prove themselves all over again. Just look on this site and on justhelicopters.com, and you'll find a myriad of jobs for both R22s and 300s. Those jobs are sitting out there for the taking; if they don't want them or aren't motivated, then it's their loss.

 

As for the safety course... my only recommendation is DO IT!!! There is a reason that the course is full-up... it's a great course! When I was working on my SFAR 73 in the R22, I only did the video excerpts, and I took a lot away from them; especially with flying semi-rigid systems (remember, a 206 is likely in your future).

 

Now, I'm going to get on my soapbox about flying safety. I do feel personally that the 300 is an overall safer platform (from experience) but the R22 is also safe if it is flown according to its POH (same goes for the 300) If you're feeling like something is going beyond the limits of safe, then take a look at your instructor. He/she should show you what the aircraft is capable of, but exceeding the limits set forth by TEST PILOTS is dumb and reckless; especially with new students. If you feel genuinely concerned about the manuevers you're executing, let your CFI know. If he/she can't explain and justify those manuevers in a smooth and technical manner, then he/she needs to be confronted. We don't need anymore negligent accidents in this industry, especially in flight instruction. The insurance rates already suck as it is.

 

I hope I've helped some. Good luck to ya!

 

Alex

Posted (edited)
Im ashamed to admit I cant quote the seat weight for the 300, and my POH is at home. (Sorry)

 

As far as getting checked out, Im not sure what that would take.

Don't be ashamed. The 300 does not have a seat weight, just a total weight of 600 lbs in the cabin. So you can have 3 guys at 200 lbs (in the 3 seat C model) or 2 guys at 300......it gets tight in there with 3 adults, but it is doable.

 

As far as being checked out, it varies. Normally you should be getting pretty proficient in about 10 hours (so about $2200.00 or so) It takes a little while to get used to the attitude, throttle manipulation and stuff like that, and it handles a little different in autos, but all in all it's not that bad.

Edited by flyby_heli
Posted
Don't be ashamed. The 300 does not have a seat weight, just a total weight of 600 lbs in the cabin.

 

Have to disagree with that everything, as for seat capacity should be posted. i'm checking the poh will post when i find it.

Posted (edited)
Have to disagree with that everything, as for seat capacity should be posted. i'm checking the poh will post when i find it.

 

 

Hmmmmm. I'm going out on a limb here, the R22/44 is the only craft I can think of with a seat limit ( 240 seat and baggage combined for the R22....300 in the 44)...I cant recall the 206, 269/300 or Bell 47 talking about anything other than combined weight in the cockpit. So, if you find it somewhere..please post it.

 

Volition/Whirlwind- The safety course is a breeze, great pilots, and the weather is always great in So Cal...

Edited by Goldy
Posted
I am currently taking flight training in the R-22 and am considering switching over to "the dark side" (ie. the Schweizer ;) ) for the remainder of my training.

 

I am looking ahead to the time when I will be instructing to build hours and am concerned about the ease of employment once I finish my CFII.

 

Has anyone done the research to determine the relative number of instructing positions available for CFI's in the Robinson versus Schweizer? I know there are a lot more schools that use the Robbie. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Because of SFAR 73, you would be wise to get the necessary time in a Robinson so that you can instruct in them. But also try to get at least 50 hours in the Schweizer because most employers seem to want 50 hours in a Schweizer to hire you as a CFI.

 

Jeff

Posted

Schweizer 300CB - 600lbs Maximum Cabin load (including 20lbs Glove Box) - And within CG limits during all phases of flight.

 

R22 - Don't forget to quote minimum seat weight if asked on a checkride!

 

61.31(d) says you may act as PIC in any aircraft for which you are rated in category, class and type if required with no further training.

 

Therefore, if you are already rated in R22, you need no further training to fly 300CB.

 

HOWEVER, don't think a school will let you simply jump in and go. Most schools will required between 5-10 hrs of checkout with their instructor before they will give you keys!

 

That's off the top of my head, so may be wrong!

 

Joker

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