Medical ?

[klmmarine]

I need to get a third class medical certificate to start training, but here is my question. Since I will be starting my comm, cfi, and cfii training immediately after my ppl can I just go ahead and get a second class medical certificate? Will this still work as a student pilot cert? Thanks..

[buddylove]

I need to get a third class medical certificate to start training, but here is my question. Since I will be starting my comm, cfi, and cfii training immediately after my ppl can I just go ahead and get a second class medical certificate? Will this still work as a student pilot cert? Thanks..

 

The school I will be attending shortly, told me that since I am planning on getting my commercial to just go ahead and get my 2nd class medical so that I can be sure there won't be any issues. Planning on scheduling it for sometime this week. Also, per this website http://www.flightinfo.com/medical.htm . Probably the best way to go.

 

 

1ST CLASS MEDICAL

 

- Pilots with their ATPs are required to have this medical.

- Highest and most extensive medical.

- Duration of this medical is 6 months.

- Cost is between $90.00 and $125.00

 

To be eligible for the first class medical certificate the applicant must meet in general these requirements.

 

 

* Distant acuity of 20/20 in each eye, and Near vision of 20/40

* Ability to distinguish aviation red, aviation signal green, and white.

* Normal field of vision

* Normal field of hearing

 

After the first six months this medical is downgraded to a second class medical. It is good as a second class medical for an additional 6 months. Then it is downgraded to a 3rd class medical good for 12 additional months.

 

2ND CLASS MEDICAL

 

- Pilots that hold and use a commercial licience are required to have this medical.

- Duration of this medical is 12 calendar months.

- Cost is between $50.00 and $70.00

 

To be eligible for the second class medical certificate the applicant must meet in general these requirements.

 

 

* Distant acuity of 20/20 in each eye, and Near vision of 20/40

* Ability to distinguish aviation red, aviation signal green, and white.

* Normal field of vision

* Normal field of hearing

 

After the twelve calendar months this medical is downgraded to a third class medical, where it is good as a third class medical for an additional 12 months.

 

3RD CLASS MEDICAL

 

- Every pilot is required to have at least a 3rd class medical.

- Most general medical.

- Duration of this medical is 36 calendar months. (under 40 yrs, 24 calendar months over 40)

- Cost is between $50.00 and $65.00

 

To be eligible for the third class medical certificate the applicant must meet in general these requirements.

 

 

* Distant acuity of 20/40 in each eye with or without corrective lenses, and Near vision of 20/40

* Ability to distinguish aviation red, aviation signal green, and white.

* Normal field of vision

* Normal field of hearing

 

This medical cannot be downgraded.

Edited February 12, 2007 by buddylove

[joker]

It doesn't really make much difference.

 

The standards are pretty much the same between 2nd and 3rd.

 

Let's say it takes you 10 months to do all your training and get your first job. Then you are only 2 months off having to get a 2nd again!

 

So in actual fact your school's advice is a little misleading. You could save yourself some money by getting a 3rd. Until you start commercial flying (for hire or reward) you only need a 3rd.

 

Make any sense?

 

Joker

[klmmarine]

A 2nd class really isn't that much more expensive is it?

[HelliBoy]

No, 70-75 bucks is the average for a 2nd. If you plan on becoming a professional pilot you might as well get the 2nd. You can get a third because you probably wont be working before a year after you have the exam; one year being the duration of a 2nd class. so you'll have to get annother exam after your training anyways.

Edited February 12, 2007 by HelliBoy

[Tenacious T]

It doesn't really make much difference.

 

The standards are pretty much the same between 2nd and 3rd.

 

Let's say it takes you 10 months to do all your training and get your first job. Then you are only 2 months off having to get a 2nd again!

 

So in actual fact your school's advice is a little misleading. You could save yourself some money by getting a 3rd. Until you start commercial flying (for hire or reward) you only need a 3rd.

 

Make any sense?

 

Joker

 

Just to clarify, you're saying you don't need a 2nd class to get the CPL, just to work in a commercial job? In other words if my 2nd class downgrades to 3rd before I finish training I'm fine until I start working?

[klmmarine]

You can get a third because you probably wont be working before a year after you have the exam; one year being the duration of a 2nd class. so you'll have to get annother exam after your training anyways.

 

A Year? Why would it take a year to complete enough ratings to get a job?

[joker]

It depends where you go, and what sort of programme you are training with, but a year is not an unrealistic timeframe.

 

It really doesn't matter which you get. If you get the Class II then great, no harm done. $70, that's all. All I was pointing out was that the school was not precise in its advice to the other poster, and that in a practical sense, you'll be getting a new one shortly after finishing training anyway. Also there is minimal difference in the standards of the Class II and Class III.

 

The school I will be attending shortly, told me that since I am planning on getting my commercial to just go ahead and get my 2nd class medical so that I can be sure there won't be any issues.

 

When I started flight training, I had a Class II. If I could go through it all again, I would have simply got the Class III and got the II when I started working...but hindsight is not always available, eh?!

 

Just to clarify, you're saying you don't need a 2nd class to get the CPL, just to work in a commercial job? In other words if my 2nd class downgrades to 3rd before I finish training I'm fine until I start working?

In answer to your question, you do not need a Class II to gain a commerical certificate. It says that in 61.123

 

In fact this has caught new CFI's out before. Here's the scenario. So happy at passing their CFI exams, they forget to check their medical, which is just about to expire! They get their job and soon become lost in all instructing life that they still forget to check their medical. Something in the back of their mind tells them that their medical is valid for ages. Then FAA inspector ramp checks them and finds that their commercial privilages expired last month! Ouch!!

 

As for these sentences, sorry, I can't resist...this is a pet hate of mine! A medical certificate is not 'downgraded'.

 

After the first six months this medical is downgraded to a second class medical

After the twelve calendar months this medical is downgraded to a third class medical, where it is good as a third class medical for an additional 12 months.

A Class I does not become a Class II after six months! Nor does a Class II miraculously change into a Class III after a year! Its privilages simply change.

 

Saying that is equally as wrong as saying the following statements!

 

- Pilots with their ATPs are required to have this medical.

- Duration of this medical is 6 months.

- Pilots that hold and use a commercial licience are required to have this medical.

- Duration of this medical is 12 calendar months.

Although I have not renewed my FAA First Class medical for 2 years, I still have it. It still says First Class on it! I just cannot exercise ATPL or Commercial privilages. I still use my First Class medical when flying as a private pilot. If someone asked me what medical I hold, I'd still say, "Class I."

 

This is exactly as per 61.23. Pertinent part copied below:

 

61.23(d) Duration of a medical certificate.

(1) A first-class medical certificate expires at the end of the last day of...--

 

...The 36th month after the month of the date of the examination shown on the certificate if the person has not reached his or her 40th birthday on or before the date of examination

 

Pedantic, maybe. Correct, yes!

 

 

Joker

Edited February 12, 2007 by joker

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Joker,

 

I am glad your brought that up about medicals being "downgraded" Alot of students I know and even some CFI's say that it gets downgraded. They don't just as you said. That was a good point to bring up.

[verbatim03]

I hate to dig up an old thread but my question is really relevant to this one. I hold a class II medical which expired a few months ago but I have still been doing flight training. I had a class III before that, and if I remember correctly the AME took the actual certificate from me during my exam and exchanged it with a class II medical certificate.

 

So all I have is the actual expired class II certificate in my wallet, I thought this meant I had a class II for 12 months, and if I didn't renew it I could use that certificate as a class III for an additional 12 months. Now I am not sure, am I supposed to have a valid class III on my person to be legal?

[me shakes fist]

So all I have is the actual expired class II certificate in my wallet, I thought this meant I had a class II for 12 months, and if I didn't renew it I could use that certificate as a class III for an additional 12 months. Now I am not sure, am I supposed to have a valid class III on my person to be legal?

You're fine with the class II you have now - that's what joker's post was talking about. Your commercial privileges of the class II have expired so you can't do any commercial flights but you still have private pilot privileges for an additional 12 months (24 months if you are under 40).

 

 

I'm confused at what the differences are between the different class medicals with regards to the requirements to acquire one. The only difference I know of off hand is for a Class III you need at least 20/40 vision and for a Class II or I you need 20/20. Otherwise, from what I've read (and from what buddylove posted) they are the same. Can anyone clarify what the differences are?

[Gomer Pylot]

Another fallacy above is that an ATP must have a Class I medical certificate. I'm an ATP, but I've never had a Class I medical (well, at least not since I got out of the Army years ago, and that's technically different), and have no need for one. The type of pilot certificate has nothing to do with the type medical required. The type flying being done determines the medical needed. If you don't fly Part 121, you don't legally need a Class I medical, but an employer might require it for some reason. Any higher class medical is sufficient for any lower class - you can fly as a student with a Class I medical, but after 6 months it's no longer good as a Class I, and you can't fly Part 121 unless you renew it. You can, however, continue to fly commercially using it for a year. After a year, it's no longer good for flying commercially, but you can continue to fly privately using it.

 

Getting a higher class medical than required is certainly legal, but I don't recommend it, unless you just want to make sure you can pass the higher class. It's more money more often, and more chances of being grounded. I will never get a Class I unless absolutely forced to by an employer who offers me lots of pictures of dead presidents, mostly obscure ones. Washington and Lincoln don't count for much.

[joker]

Another fallacy above is that an ATP must have a Class I medical certificate.

 

Good point. I tried to hint at this above in my previous post. Thanks for the personal example.

 

I also agree with your last paragraph. Especially this sentence:

 

Its....more chances of being grounded.

 

meshakesfist, I agree with you as well. He is able to continue his training with the Class II certificate he has for a further 24 months (if under 40 of coursse.) It would have helped if he had provided some dates as examples. Then we could provide him with a more confident answer.

 

I'm confused at what the differences are between the different class medicals with regards to the requirements to acquire one.

 

Well, I am no AME, but I believe the standard requirements are fairly similar. Afterall, we want ALL pilots to be pretty healthy don't we?!

 

The main difference is the duration that you can exercise certain privilages.

 

Joker

[me shakes fist]

Ok so a higher class medical requirement is mainly just to make sure a pilot gets checked out more often? That makes sense.

[Heloplt]

unless you just want to make sure you can pass the higher class.

 

Absolutely. I recommend you look at what type of medical certificate is required for the type of flying you aspire to. If you aspire to become a private pilot then the first medical I would recommend you get is a third class, thats all you will ever need. If you want to get your CFI/II and possibly ATP down the road so you can fly any job that presents itself then I would recommend getting a first class medical your first time out. After that I would get the highest class medical required for your current position or the position you will likely be in within the duration of that class of medical.

 

Does getting a higher class medical raise your risk of getting denied? Absolutely. Do I want to waste money on a medical that I don't need? No, but my first time out I want to see if I can pass the highest class medical required for whatever job I aspire to. If I can't pass the medical or at least get a waiver then I wasted an extra $50-$75 bucks on a medical exam that just saved me tens of thousands of dollars in training that I don't need because I can't pass the medical required for the job I aspired to. Or you can get a third class medical and spend thousands on training and then find that you can't pass the required medical for the job. I'd rather be working on a medical waiver before I start my training. If not I'm gonna be very stressed and very broke if I'm having to work on a waiver during or after my initial training.

 

Just my humble opinion, but it was also the advice given to me by a crusty old Braniff 747 pilot when I was in high school getiing ready to start. In his words "make sure all the parts work before you waste any money."

 

I hear that your rich Uncle Sam will pay for your medical (and as a bonus all of your flight training) should you not want to waste any money. :-)

 

Jeff

[joker]

meshakesfist,

 

I must add to my post before...which I stopped abruptly last night due to boredom!

 

Anyway, what I was going on to say is this:

 

Although the medical standards are pretty similar (as I said before) it seems that AMEs are a little more anal with each class of medical. They will scrutinise your current health and your history a little more.

 

With the third they seem to pass you based on your health there and then. With the second, they might actually look on your form for past history, and with the third they will actually quiz you on your past history. Still pretty easy though.

 

This is what we are saying when we say that simply by going for a higher class gives you more chance of being caught up for that cough you had when you were six, or that slight heart murmer you had 10 years ago. That sort of thing.

 

Thus it is a good idea to do that...that way you know there is nothing on your form that will raise eyebrows in the future.

 

Joker

Edited April 17, 2007 by joker

[67november]

meshakesfist,

With the third they seem to pass you based on your health there and then. With the second, they might actually look on your form for past history, and with the third they will actually quiz you on your past history. Still pretty easy though.

 

Joker

 

Joker you're not quite awake yet!

 

should read

 

With the third they seem to pass you based on your health there and then. With the second, they might actually look on your form for past history, and with the FIRST they will actually quiz you on your past history. Still pretty easy though.

 

your welcome