CFI liability

[mountainchopper]

This has been running through my mind a lot lately, what are other CFI's doing to cover themselves in the event a machine gets bent or worse to protect themselves from liability? Specifically i'm talking about CFi's that are independant contracters. I looked at AOPA CFI insurance, and their website says the policies listed don't cover rotorwing. Assuming they do have a policy that does, the max they have is 150,000 for the loss of aircraft and runs for a cool $1300. This doesn't cover bodily harm/property damages that is a whole nuther' burrito

 

I instruct in an R44 so if i killed a ship, the 150000 doesn't even cover half of it basically, not to mention injuries incurred, legal charges etc... So my thinking on this is I can A: get said policy pay the 1300 and if i ball up a ship the insurance covers to said 150000 then whoever comes after me for the remaining 200000 ergo i am bankrupt, or I could B: not get the coverage and if i ball up a ship they come after me for the whole ball of wax and i'm bankrupt and save 1300 which i can spend on beer, rent, and food, which they can get from the toilet.

 

now for personal injury etc... I think this is probably a good idea to at least get some coverage, and possibly legal coverage so hopefully i can at least win the court case. I know that the heli should have it's own insurance, but what is to stop the insurer to pay the owner of the aircraft then come after me to recoup for damages.

 

I'm assuming this is all if I am liable, what protections, if any do CFIs legally have, and how liable are they? What information on insurance, legal set-up etc do you guys have? What if a student makes the mistake, how liable am I.

 

This all assuming worst case scenario and I know the first step is to take measures to be as safe as possible to prevent such an incident from occuring in the first place, but as it has been said many times many ways: sh*t Happens.

 

I do know that most CFIs in my position set up a LLC, as I have done, but from what I'm gathering legally that doesn't amount to much protection.

 

Thoughts, advice, and experience all greatly welcomed.

 

Maybe i'm thinking to much into it but to me it isn't worth the lame salary of CFI to be as legally liable as I am.

[gmsemel]

I never heard of a Flight Instructor being sued for an accident, not to say it don't happen. Back when I was a young CFI in airplanes, this very thing came up in a Instructor Revaildation Clinic. We had to travel to them and it took three days. The Fellow running the course, put it to us in this way, the Lawyers go after deep pockets. Suing aircraft makers was just getting going and the industry was in the first stages of the shocks that would come, following the Oil embargos of the 1970's. He put it pretty well, you could not afford what the insruance would cost, at least not at the pay scale the industry was paying. And having insurance, makes you deep pockets or appear to have anyway, and just make you a target for lawyers. They go to were the most money is, and its not in the Flight school business, so you sue the airframe makers. Ever wonder why an R-44 costs 400K. Robinson gets sued and a lot. He pays a lot for insurance and the costs are passed on. Now a flight school will insure there aircraft and you are covered while teaching. Some schools may try to collect deductables, in don't know of any that ever have. Its one of the reasons there are all kinds of special rules and hoops you jump thru when flying R-22's and 44's. The AOPA don't help much, I could never afford what they wanted for insurance anyway and it would not cover me for anything other than If I wanted to rent and airplane. So it became a not issue for me, now if its keeping you awake at night, then talk to a lawyer and really see what Liabilities you might have and how to protect yourself. It may surprise you. There is not a whole lot of money in the Flight school business, look HAI just sold to Bristows for 15 million + taking some out standing debt. They are by far the biggest Helicopter Flight School going or at least one with a good rep. 15 million when talking to liability Lawyers is not a whole lot and most flight schools have assets way less than that. But we live in an age where one has to think about such things.

[mountainchopper]

yeah thanks for the info, i figured as much, but i set up an appointment with my attorney in a week or so, and i'll see what he has to say. Makes sense what you are saying though. by HAI do you mean hillsboro? used to go there.

[RotorWeed]

I never heard of a Flight Instructor being sued for an accident, not to say it don't happen. Back when I was a young CFI in airplanes, this very thing came up in a Instructor Revaildation Clinic. We had to travel to them and it took three days. The Fellow running the course, put it to us in this way, the Lawyers go after deep pockets. Suing aircraft makers was just getting going and the industry was in the first stages of the shocks that would come, following the Oil embargos of the 1970's. He put it pretty well, you could not afford what the insruance would cost, at least not at the pay scale the industry was paying. And having insurance, makes you deep pockets or appear to have anyway, and just make you a target for lawyers. They go to were the most money is, and its not in the Flight school business, so you sue the airframe makers. Ever wonder why an R-44 costs 400K. Robinson gets sued and a lot. He pays a lot for insurance and the costs are passed on. Now a flight school will insure there aircraft and you are covered while teaching. Some schools may try to collect deductables, in don't know of any that ever have. Its one of the reasons there are all kinds of special rules and hoops you jump thru when flying R-22's and 44's. The AOPA don't help much, I could never afford what they wanted for insurance anyway and it would not cover me for anything other than If I wanted to rent and airplane. So it became a not issue for me, now if its keeping you awake at night, then talk to a lawyer and really see what Liabilities you might have and how to protect yourself. It may surprise you. There is not a whole lot of money in the Flight school business, look HAI just sold to Bristows for 15 million + taking some out standing debt. They are by far the biggest Helicopter Flight School going or at least one with a good rep. 15 million when talking to liability Lawyers is not a whole lot and most flight schools have assets way less than that. But we live in an age where one has to think about such things.

 

Who told you Robinson gets sued alot, and they pay for "a lot of insureance"?

 

RW

[Sparker]

Who told you Robinson gets sued alot, and they pay for "a lot of insureance"?

 

RW

 

I heard a rumor from a flight school in colorado that insurance companies wouldn't insure Robinson anymore, specificly the R22. So Robinson bought the insurance company, and insures his own helicopters now. This school in colorado flys Schwiezers and they are very adament that no one ever flys in a Robinson... Obviously this info can't be trusted, but it would be interesting to find out for sure.

[jehh]

This has been running through my mind a lot lately, what are other CFI's doing to cover themselves in the event a machine gets bent or worse to protect themselves from liability? Specifically i'm talking about CFi's that are independant contracters.

 

Your best defense is to be an additional insured in the helicopter insurance policy, so that it will cover you in such an event.

 

I'm assuming this is all if I am liable, what protections, if any do CFIs legally have, and how liable are they? What information on insurance, legal set-up etc do you guys have? What if a student makes the mistake, how liable am I.

 

See above...

 

I do know that most CFIs in my position set up a LLC, as I have done, but from what I'm gathering legally that doesn't amount to much protection.

 

That is useless... The point of a LLC or a Corp is to protect yourself against other people's screwups. If you personally were involved in the activity, you're personally liable.

 

Maybe i'm thinking to much into it but to me it isn't worth the lame salary of CFI to be as legally liable as I am.

 

There is a lot of truth to that, which is why you should be insured under the aircraft's policy.

 

I heard a rumor from a flight school in colorado that insurance companies wouldn't insure Robinson anymore, specificly the R22. So Robinson bought the insurance company, and insures his own helicopters now. This school in colorado flys Schwiezers and they are very adament that no one ever flys in a Robinson... Obviously this info can't be trusted, but it would be interesting to find out for sure.

 

Another reason why second hand info from someone who already doesn't like a product is useless.

 

Robinson does indeed have their own insurance company, however AIG will also be happy to insure Robinson helicopters, as will a few others if you have existing business with them.

 

Doesn't much matter, R-22s (and 300CBs for that matter) shouldn't be flown in most places in Colorado, the DA is too high. I have someone who owns a 300CB and moved to Utah, lives at 5,100ft, and had to sell it because it is all but useless at that base elevation.