more emphasis on helmets in the industry

[mattcob]

i feel i have to say that having been through an experience like the crash on thursday that myself and ivan had, i cannot reitterate enough the importance of wearing a helmet, even for civilian flights/missions, i do feel that the civil sector is very slow to encourage pilots to wear a helmet, and it should start at school level, just introducing them to pilots so they dont feel silly when they wear them, even if its just when a student starts auto training but something should be mentioned, i also believe that there really is nothing said about personal investment in a simple survival vest, just because we are not military does not mean that if we go down we shouldnt have enough stuff to last 24hrs out in the field before hopefully somebody can find us. I am lucky that the crash we had was close to where people were living and we had many witnesses and we only came down from about 30-40 ft, however the story could have been very different and it gave me a great sense of confidence to know that we had it covered if something worse had happend, a spare handheld radiotransceiver, a foil blanket, and some oatmeal bars and water dont take up much room and could easily be the difference between life and death( i take it for granted we all carry first aid!!!)

 

After something like this happens it does wake you up to reality and we should all learn from it, i read on this forum about people we all get to know passing away due to accidents and even those we dont know which we see on the news, but just maybe if we all upped our awareness on safety just a fraction each maybe some of the accidents would not be fatal, it is something we will never know but its always better to try harder

 

The whole point of this website i feel is to share and learn from each others experiences, i personally feel if i can make just one pilot think to himself"i should really wear a helmet doing what i do" that it has been worth it!!

 

once again thanks for the concern for marpat its funny but you all dont feel like a bunch of strangers anymore!!

 

blue skies

 

mattcob

[Gunner]

i feel i have to say that having been through an experience like the crash on thursday that myself and ivan had, i cannot reitterate enough the importance of wearing a helmet, even for civilian flights/missions, i do feel that the civil sector is very slow to encourage pilots to wear a helmet, and it should start at school level, just introducing them to pilots so they dont feel silly when they wear them, even if its just when a student starts auto training but something should be mentioned, i also believe that there really is nothing said about personal investment in a simple survival vest, just because we are not military does not mean that if we go down we shouldnt have enough stuff to last 24hrs out in the field before hopefully somebody can find us. I am lucky that the crash we had was close to where people were living and we had many witnesses and we only came down from about 30-40 ft, however the story could have been very different and it gave me a great sense of confidence to know that we had it covered if something worse had happend, a spare handheld radiotransceiver, a foil blanket, and some oatmeal bars and water dont take up much room and could easily be the difference between life and death( i take it for granted we all carry first aid!!!)

 

After something like this happens it does wake you up to reality and we should all learn from it, i read on this forum about people we all get to know passing away due to accidents and even those we dont know which we see on the news, but just maybe if we all upped our awareness on safety just a fraction each maybe some of the accidents would not be fatal, it is something we will never know but its always better to try harder

 

The whole point of this website i feel is to share and learn from each others experiences, i personally feel if i can make just one pilot think to himself"i should really wear a helmet doing what i do" that it has been worth it!!

 

once again thanks for the concern for marpat its funny but you all dont feel like a bunch of strangers anymore!!

 

blue skies

 

mattcob

 

 

Glad to hear you are OK.

 

I really agree with everything you are saying. I carry a small survival kit, handheld and back up GPS on every flight.

[Linc]

I'm gonna start wearing a helmet when I drive my car, too.

[Wally]

Amen, Brother.

WHEN it happens- and it WILL happen to you- your survival may well depend on what you have on your person, in your pockets, and especially, on your head. It's easier to get out of the smoking pile if you're conscious.

 

If you've never been in any kind of a crash, here's a suggestion to simulate a helo crash:

Get one of those big washers from the laundromat, a long extension cord, and put it on your roof.

Climb in.

Have an assistant start a rotary lawn mower and throw that in with you.

Now, it gets exciting- close the door and start the spin cycle. The load will be unbalanced, but you'll be too busy with the lawn mower to notice.

Assistant pushes the whole mess off the roof.

[500E]

Glad your ok mattcob hope Ivan is to.

 

Wally

You forgot the half gall of JP2 and the match.

[mechanic]

Glad to hear you guys are doing fine..

 

 

 

Regards

[Witch]

Hey Matt, out of curiousity, what helmet were you wearing at the time and what damage did it sustain?

 

I ask this because I'm in the market for an SPH-4. I think I'm going to get one real soon after reading your post, wearing it all the time in the Robbie.

 

It's good to survive a crash, glad ya'll did.

 

Later

[Worldcrime]

i feel i have to say that having been through an experience like the crash on thursday that myself and ivan had, i cannot reitterate enough the importance of wearing a helmet, even for civilian flights/missions, i do feel that the civil sector is very slow to encourage pilots to wear a helmet, and it should start at school level, just introducing them to pilots so they dont feel silly when they wear them, even if its just when a student starts auto training but something should be mentioned, i also believe that there really is nothing said about personal investment in a simple survival vest, just because we are not military does not mean that if we go down we shouldnt have enough stuff to last 24hrs out in the field before hopefully somebody can find us. I am lucky that the crash we had was close to where people were living and we had many witnesses and we only came down from about 30-40 ft, however the story could have been very different and it gave me a great sense of confidence to know that we had it covered if something worse had happend, a spare handheld radiotransceiver, a foil blanket, and some oatmeal bars and water dont take up much room and could easily be the difference between life and death( i take it for granted we all carry first aid!!!)

 

After something like this happens it does wake you up to reality and we should all learn from it, i read on this forum about people we all get to know passing away due to accidents and even those we dont know which we see on the news, but just maybe if we all upped our awareness on safety just a fraction each maybe some of the accidents would not be fatal, it is something we will never know but its always better to try harder

 

The whole point of this website i feel is to share and learn from each others experiences, i personally feel if i can make just one pilot think to himself"i should really wear a helmet doing what i do" that it has been worth it!!

 

once again thanks for the concern for marpat its funny but you all dont feel like a bunch of strangers anymore!!

 

blue skies

 

mattcob

 

Very glad you are ok and thanks for sharing your thoughts on safety awareness in the forums, it benefits all of us to hear of your recent experience. You have have got me thinking about a helmet for sure.

 

Richard

 

http://heli-safety.com

[Pull Red Handle To Eject]

I agree with you on the helmet track.

 

I have always worn helmets on bikes as its the law where I am from though given the choice i'd still wear it.

 

If the military guys have it as a standard bit of kit, why shouldnt we , they figured out that its worth the investment to have all the pilots wear them so why not civvies ?

 

In my other lines of work I always wear PPE ( Personal Protective Equipment )

 

Walking out on the flight line every day I feel naked with out one & am still saving the coin to buy one.

There are lots of rotating bits that tend to be very close to my head that just makes me want to get one now.

 

I think training schools should make it a standard practise to have students wear one.

I had heard that most schools dont want the CFI's wearing them unless the students do cause it scares the student ( making them think that flying is very dangerous ) erm it is isnt it to a point.

Isnt it better to be safer than sorry, I mean once you are in an accident its always then that folks tend to think its a great idea & should be implemented...... it always needs someone to be hurt before changes are made.

 

I dont care that its an extra $500 - $1000...its your head, its gonna get smacked hard, sooner or later, hopefully never but why risk that.

 

I have found in hot weather that your head is actually cooler because its insulated , I thought my melon was gonna cook with it but its the opposite in reality.

 

 

Wally - on the car comment.

 

PRHTE

[permison]

Glad to hear you are OK.

 

I really agree with everything you are saying. I carry a small survival kit, handheld and back up GPS on every flight.

 

+1 here too. I get a lot of ribbing when I wear my SPH-4 but I feel confident in surviving a crash.

[mattcob]

my helmet according to my boss was just an ex military gentex, that he converted to civilian use by changing the mics and ears etc, he got the lot from ebay very cheap, he then sent it away for a new paint job and we got cool looking helmets for peanuts!!!!!

 

we all have one each and all probally for a lot less than the cost for one new one!!!

 

it dosent have to cost a fortune to save your bonnet!!!!

 

blue skies

 

mattcob

[dlo22]

I dont care that its an extra $500 - $1000...its your head, its gonna get smacked hard, sooner or later, hopefully never but why risk that.

 

 

 

so I must ask, cause I hear this alot, " its your head, and there is no price to pay for the safety" So are your legs and arms, face, neck and eyes not as important. so why are we only talking about helmets and how only helmets should be mandatory for flight training in flight school. and " since the military requires helmets, why don't the civilian sector require helmets""

 

I guess I just have to argue, since safety seems to be a topic always discussed, since training helicopters are the smallest, most dangerous helicopters out there, with the highest crash rates and the highest mortality rate, meaning that if you train in an R22, you are riskiing your life three times more than flying a more bigger, stable turbine helicopter with two engines. If your are going to make an investment in your safety, why would you even consider training in the smaller, most deadly helicopters, and then just throw a helmet on and state that your are safe now and taking every precaution to protect your life....

 

I'm saying, in a perfect world, I would be training in a big, stable, twin turbine helicopter, with every safety upgrade added to the helicopter, along with a full, fireproof flight suit, and strong safe helmet, polycarbonite lenses for my eyes, possibly gloves, steele boots and a chest protector and a parachute.......

 

why would you want to be only half way safe, and the biggest factor being left out, which helicopter you are training in, and how small and dangerous the helicopter is..... If you really want to be extremely safe and protect your life, why not put your money into everything, instead of just buying an expensive helmet and flying in an unstable, poorly maintained, roller skate with tendenceys to rattle apart and fall out of the sky..

[Linc]

So, what kind of motorcycle do YOU drive and is it the best or just what you can afford?

[dlo22]

So, what kind of motorcycle do YOU drive and is it the best or just what you can afford?

 

 

I RIDE a GSXR1000, with a Shoe helmet, No it is probably not the best bike out there by any means, it does perform better than most other types of motorcycles out there. Braking power is top notch and manuevering is also second to none. But I know it is dangerous and I usually only wear just a helmet, which is required, but I except the risks and have fun doing so.

 

I also know it is not realistic for anyone to train from 0 hours to cfi in a twin turbine heli, I am just playing devils advocate and looking at the topic in a whole different perspective. I don't wear helmets when I fly helicopters, nor do I want to. As soon as I crash one though, I will probably become a believer and put one on. I don't have any problems with people that want to wear helmets either, but when people argue that helmets and only helmets should be required for safety in the industry, I just don't actually agree with that. cause helmets are never the reason for the crash and rarely the only reason someone lives or dies in the crash. If I had the choice to fly with a 150 hour pilot with helmets or and 3,000 hour pilot without helmets, I would most definetly choose the 3,000 hour pilot with NO helmet.

 

then some people are arguing that you must buy a 3,000 dollar helmet, cause you get what you pay for and there is no helmet to expensive to invest in, if it is going to save your life. When I buy things, I usually shoot for middle of the line, never the cheapest and never the most expensive. I just think that if Helmets were the key to eliminating crashes and increasing survivability, I'm pretty sure the FAA would be the first to know this and implament this. Since they have not yet set rules and standards for wearing helmets while flying helicopters, it doesn't seem to be on the top priority of their list so I doubt it should be on mine.

[Linc]

So, what are you saying to mattcobb, who just experienced this and is now sharing with us that he is a helmet believer? You don't believe him, because you will only become a believer if/when YOU experience it? What if your dream company to fly for (let's pretend that is your goal) mandates the use of helmets, will you be a believer then?

 

(This is me playing devil's advocate.)

 

Granted, I approached this topic with some sarcasm as well, but I happen to be a believer in helmets, although I would love to fly without one and feel the wind in my hair as well as my face. All these hours, accident free, and I can't attribute a single one to wearing the helmet. But then, the closer I get to moving away from the checks and balances of the military maintenance system, the more likely I am to want to wear a helmet on the outside anyways.

 

mattcobb,

 

Do you think you can take some pictures of your helmet and share them with us? I can imagine you probably have some nice new marks on it.

[Pull Red Handle To Eject]

Why the head & why not the rest ?

 

 

The head being the most critical part of the body that doesnt react too kindly to being bashed !

Its kinda like bullet proof vests that only have a metal plate that is inserted into the vest that only covers the heart.

Its heavy and why not protect the whole thing with metal...cause (A) its heavy & ( costly & © to be PRACTICAL you can survive with being shot in a kidney and even lose a kidney and still kick on after surgery but being shot in the heart leaves you with a very small chance on survival.... like none I'd bet.

 

I know it seems obvious but you asked !!!

 

Well its true to say you could go to the limits & get everything you need ( I woud also say for a really decent NOMEX flight suit for $60 - $80 from an army navy store ) if you have the cash but I suggest at least go for head protection because you can live with a blow that can break your arm or leg ( not there is much to stop that sort of injury ) but the same blow to the head would at best leave you with some sleepy time and at worst ... well a sleep you may not wake up from.

 

 

PRHTE

[Gomer Pylot]

I always have enough with me to survive for 24 hours. I ain't gonna die of starvation in one day, or two, or three. I doubt anyone else here is, either. Some water is nice, but you can live for a couple of days at least without water, in most environments. You won't necessarily be comfortable, but you can survive. I carry some food with me most of the time (jerky sticks, granola bar, or whatever) just because I don't like to be hungry, but it's not a matter of survival. A bottle of water is also nice, and I often have one of those. If you can't live on that for a day, you're a far skinnier man than me, Gunga Din.

 

I'm wearing a helmet now, because my employer requires it, but I still hate it. I don't wear it for protection, I wear it because I have to. I doubt I'll ever change my mind on this subject. Being uncomfortable in the cockpit is a safety issue just as serious as having a helmet in a crash, which might be avoided in the first place if the pilot is comfortable and concentrating on flying instead of avoiding discomfort. There are no guarantees in this world, and it's all a crapshoot. I prefer comfort. Feel free to prefer whatever you choose.

[dlo22]

agree with you gomer pylot,

 

don't know what else to say, maybe its just our stubborn attitudes, I don't care if other people want to wear them or not, I could care less, and I usually prefer comfort over saftey in alot of ways, I wouldn't wear my streetbike helmet if I didn't have too, I sure didn't in Colorado. I prefer the nice cushy couch over the posterpedic spine alignment couch, I could go on and on, since the FAA say I don't have too, I guess I wont.

 

could you imagine someday if the airliners required you to wear a helmet an life jackets on their trans atlantic flights, how many people would still go and feel much safer. life is a crap shoot, cause you could just as easily die from an aortic anuerism, or severing your femoral artery, which does happen, but on the other side, you could thump your head real good and die from that as well...

[Linc]

Someone should go to Vegas.

[Witch]

Dlo, How many times have you been admonished for not having full leathers? Pisser, ain't it. I'll get a biker telling me that chaps and sneakers won't protect me. Heck, I even had a nurse at the FBO tell me about bikers riding in sneakers and having their feet worn down to the ankle. Thanks for the visual!

 

Anyhow, the way I see it, wear one if you want, don't if you wish, and everybody keep to themselves.

 

Now, if I can just get Earl to stop telling me to heat shrink the butt splices...

 

Oh, before I forget, I've been meaning to buy a helmet for a long time-cool factor-and have found a reasonable deal. I should have one in a few weeks.

 

Later

[Linc]

Witch,

 

Care to share which model and why you chose it? Might help some who are thinking this same decision through. Those who are navigating the rocky waters of dlo's anti-safety campaign and my "worthless if you ain't maintaining it" rants!

[dlo22]

Witch,

 

Care to share which model and why you chose it? Might help some who are thinking this same decision through. Those who are navigating the rocky waters of dlo's anti-safety campaign and my "worthless if you ain't maintaining it" rants!

 

 

linc,

 

I am by no means an anti safety person, nor am I an extremist, I am just in the middle, where most everyone else falls. I am not preaching to anyone on why to not wear a helmet or not. I just am not into " make helmets mandatory compain, nor am I in the bio-physics class that disects helmets to find their structure flaws and inorganic makeup. If I by an expensive helmet, I sure as hell do not want to pay to have it serviced or maintained. That is all news to me, and maybe you do need to service your helmet, as if it was a car or helicopter. but every other helmet I have seen, including the helicopter ones, do not need servicing, unless it gets smashed then you service it by throwing it in the trash and buying a new one.

 

Helmets are like headsets, mostly personal preferance, with some that claim more than they are. Like bose headsets with noise cancelling, are much safer for your ear drums, and hearing cause they cancel out half of the low pitched drones that you might hear with a conventional head set. except for this feature, you will pay three times more and need to question yourself, ' is it really worth it ""

 

Most people I have talked to that wear helmets, they are old army pilots or veterans and they just wear them out of habit. And when I ask them how they like their helmet, they just say, well this one is more comfortable than the last one, the visor is lighter or darker and it is much lighter than the ones I used to wear. But I have never heard any of them say .. This helmet is the best, it will protect your head like nothing else you have ever worn, It is made out of this and that, it has a tensile strength of this and its rating is ten times more safer than the other brand I have had. Plus with my new helmet, I only have to service it every 800 hours and that saves me a few bucks over time. I have never heard talk of this or read such an in depth analysis of these silly helmets. maybe I'm just not up to standards on the safety discussions...

[Linc]

dlo,

 

Aviation is full of all kinds of different people. Knowing the aircraft and the equipment we use to the most detailed level we can get only helps us operate more effectively and make well-informed choices.

[permison]

I am with Linc on this one. I fall into that column of old army pilots or veterans (though not that old ;-)) and during my robbie ranger training I felt pretty naked till I had my helmet converted to civilian comms. On occasion I will wear my flight suit if I am doing autos or any sort of flying which falls within a certain safety zone, IE: long trip over the mountains, or other bad terrain, hot days, or auto practice. It does make me more comfortable (except those hot days) but I realize I look dumb to some of the other pilots.

 

Now having said all that I want to give the robbie rangers here something to think about. Recently Robinson helicopters put out Safety notice SN-40 which recommends the use of fire-retardant Nomex flight suits, gloves, and hood or helment worn by all occupants. This is not manditory (yet) just highly advisable.

 

I also ride motorcycles (I have a ZX-10 and a EX-500) and have heard of insurance companies deny claims for medical expenses due to the rider not wearing proper safety equipment. I live in Virginia where helmets are required but I know of many states where they are not. Regardless of this it is very likely that insurance could deny a full claim if the injured party did not wear the advised safety gear regardless of a requirement by law. IE: no helmet or other proper riding gear.

 

Something to think about for us with families to support or taking passengers for rides with less then the suggested gear. As PIC you could be exposed to significant liability if you do not offer your passengers the manufatures recommended safety equipment.

 

I am not a lawyer or in the insurance industry so I do not speak from any experiance here beyond being a former Army aviator and the training that went with it.

Just something to think about.....

permison

[permison]

So I go to lunch at the local mall here today. As I am eating with a buddy from work, what do I see walk by but some jerkoff with a flight helmet on. I kid you not. This guy was walking in the middle of the mall with a 1970s/80s style flight helmet on his head. Blue jeans and a tshirt. I burst out laughing and spewed my spagetti all over my buddy. Guess he was really worried about head truama! Or might have already had some.