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Private Rating on Ebay


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Not to sound negative or anything, but this looks like a really good way......to be going out of business quickly!!!

 

All you need is the right individual to win this auction, and you have someone with no motor skills, and he is flying on your dime for however long it takes him! I remember a guy in flightschool who was pretty sharp, and wanted to fly, after 70 hours of dual in the schweizer the school finally told him to pack his bags and leave. They later found out there was something wrong with his depth perception so he couldn't judge the difference between 50 feet and 200 feet (you'll hit hard doing autos if you flare at 200 feet). His vision was fine, so no problems on the medical! One or two of those candidates and you will be crying all the way to the bank......

 

This reminds me of the "business-plan" of a company that promised all of their students $50,000/year jobs upon graduation, can anyone refresh my memory on how that saga went again??? Never promise something you cannot keep......

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Aw crap! Why didn't you offer this last year?:D

 

Later

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Beyond the 30 hrs ground is 35 per hour. I will also be putting a commercial and a professional pilot program on there as well (0-CFI) in the next few days.

 

 

This auction is FOR YOUR PRIVATE RATING, no matter how much time it takes you! There will be NO MORE CHARGES WHAT SO EVER!

 

You might want to put that in your auction. There are alot of people out there that would like to take advantage of others.

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Two things make me twitch about this particular ad:

 

1/ You don't seem to have put much thought into this, or at least that isn't evident from your eBay listing. For example, the cost of ground school over and above the 30 hours only comes out on a direct question. That makes me curious about what other terms you have in your head or haven't decided on until a situation arises. What happens if your student puts your R22 into the ground on his first lesson? What is the billing rate that you will base refunds on--a standard rate per hour (about $235), or the winning bidder's cost per hour based on the winning bid and 40 hours the FAA woulda required? Or the rate for the 60 hours most students are going to take for proficiency? Who's going to decide when the student is ready for his/her check ride, and do you have the right to null the deal if you have a student keeps putting it off because they don't feel ready? Buy used electronics on eBay and they come with more (and better) defined conditions for the terms of sale and returns, and this is $7000! So many variables out there that haven't been addressed in the bit you've posted on eBay, somebody is bound to get burned.

 

2/ This "PLEASE DO NOT BID IF YOU CANNOT WAIT UNTIL THE 1ST OF JUNE!" and this "Payment must be made before any ground or any flight time is acquired. Balance must be paid in full." On eBay's terms, this usually means within a few days of the auction's end. I'm not saying you don't have the best intentions, but where's that money going to be in the meantime? Somebody is going to have to be very trusting to hand you over a check for 7k and just hope that when they show up at the KSEL address they sent it to, somebody will be there. From your zero to CFI posts, the money will go into "an account", but without knowing what that really means, how can anybody be certain that their money will be there to keep the chopper running when they show up in June? Really?

 

Overall I think eBay is a great way to get the visibility you're seeking, and some aviation businesses have done it well (Aviator Academy I think was taking bids on their ground school program at a reasonably reduced cost, and that's how I learned about them). But because of the lack of detail in this offer, if it goes bad for you or the student it's probably going to go really really bad.

 

Or maybe I have to stop reading so many of Fry's posts. Idunno. Good luck.

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Here is what this auction includes: 30 hours of Ground Instruction 30 hours dual flight instruction 10 hours of solo flight time Books and Materials Written Exam Fee Aircraft Rental and Examiner Fee The list above is the minimums that the FAA requires to obtain you Private Rating. This auction is FOR YOUR PRIVATE RATING, no matter how much time it takes you! There will be NO MORE CHARGES WHAT SO EVER!

 

To me thats a contradictory paragraph.

If, as you say in the posts above, you are going to charge $35 for ground after the 30 hours then how is that "NO MORE CHARGES WHAT SO EVER!"

 

I don't mean to get at you or be in any way negative to what I think is a great thing you are trying to do, (if I could get the paperwork sorted in time, I'd bid on it!) but if there is any ambiguity and someone takes you up on it with a "what's the most I can get out of this guy" frame of mind, and there are plenty about unforunately, then you will be hard pressed to defend your position.

 

If you said how long it takes rather than how much time it takes you may be in a better position as 'time' can be read to mean 'flying hours' in aviation, if thats what you meant of course. I can just see you being taken for a ride (not too much of a pun intended) by an unscrupulous ebayer, and no one wants to see that.

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You are a dreamer who doesnt even have a helicopter. How can you offer something that you have NO IDEA what it encompasses. Wait I have a great idea I am charging $7000.00 for brain surgery, granted I"m not a Doctor yet but I saw someone do it and I guess I can do it... Oh by the way You have to pay up front before I do the operation. People like you are giving the helicopter training business a black eye, why dont you just go see Jerry at SSH and become his partner, at least he has a helicopter.

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I appreciate the thread to bring the ebay posting to our attention. And while there appears to be a contradiction as to the total cost if the student burns a lot of hours....let's keep this civil, please. If it turns out to be a scam we'll know soon enough. If not you'll find a lot of wannabes with a whole lot more cash in their pockets than we had after getting our PPLs.

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You are a dreamer who doesnt even have a helicopter. How can you offer something that you have NO IDEA what it encompasses. Wait I have a great idea I am charging $7000.00 for brain surgery, granted I"m not a Doctor yet but I saw someone do it and I guess I can do it... Oh by the way You have to pay up front before I do the operation. People like you are giving the helicopter training business a black eye, why dont you just go see Jerry at SSH and become his partner, at least he has a helicopter.

 

Hoverflyr- If you had been around here a little longer, or paid a little more attention, you would have seen the previous posts by Alexander Air. He has what appears to be a sound business plan, a partner and back-up cfi, and a positive outlook on what flight training should look like (from the business end).

 

I am not sure why you chose to attack him the way that you have, (perhaps you were screwed by SSH?) but please try to be a little more courteous to your fellow board members, and keep your uninformed judgements to yourself.

 

AlexanderAir- Good luck with your venture. If you had 141 approval I would be there already for comm-cfii.

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For better traffic I would suggest putting your ad in the aircraft for sale section of ebay. I have seen many other fixed wing guys do this. Much more people just browse through the aircraft listings than browse through "advice and instruction > other".

 

Here is the category I would put your ad in.

 

eBay Motors> Other Vehicles & Trailers> Aircraft> Helicopters

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You are a dreamer who doesnt even have a helicopter. How can you offer something that you have NO IDEA what it encompasses. Wait I have a great idea I am charging $7000.00 for brain surgery, granted I"m not a Doctor yet but I saw someone do it and I guess I can do it... Oh by the way You have to pay up front before I do the operation. People like you are giving the helicopter training business a black eye, why dont you just go see Jerry at SSH and become his partner, at least he has a helicopter.

 

 

How can you say I don't have a helicopter? If I have a helicopter in overhaul, doesn't that mean that I HAVE a helicopter to put into overhaul? And actually my entire business plan is based on the exact opposite of Silver State. And Im sorry but when did we meet? How do you know that I have no idea what all of this encompasses? Please let me know. And last but not least I have put a lot of time and money to secure this school so students have somewhere they can go that ISN'T SSH in Salem Oregon. Next time do some research before running your mouth, thanks.

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Two things make me twitch about this particular ad:

 

1/ You don't seem to have put much thought into this, or at least that isn't evident from your eBay listing. For example, the cost of ground school over and above the 30 hours only comes out on a direct question. That makes me curious about what other terms you have in your head or haven't decided on until a situation arises. What happens if your student puts your R22 into the ground on his first lesson? What is the billing rate that you will base refunds on--a standard rate per hour (about $235), or the winning bidder's cost per hour based on the winning bid and 40 hours the FAA woulda required? Or the rate for the 60 hours most students are going to take for proficiency? Who's going to decide when the student is ready for his/her check ride, and do you have the right to null the deal if you have a student keeps putting it off because they don't feel ready? Buy used electronics on eBay and they come with more (and better) defined conditions for the terms of sale and returns, and this is $7000! So many variables out there that haven't been addressed in the bit you've posted on eBay, somebody is bound to get burned.

 

2/ This "PLEASE DO NOT BID IF YOU CANNOT WAIT UNTIL THE 1ST OF JUNE!" and this "Payment must be made before any ground or any flight time is acquired. Balance must be paid in full." On eBay's terms, this usually means within a few days of the auction's end. I'm not saying you don't have the best intentions, but where's that money going to be in the meantime? Somebody is going to have to be very trusting to hand you over a check for 7k and just hope that when they show up at the KSEL address they sent it to, somebody will be there. From your zero to CFI posts, the money will go into "an account", but without knowing what that really means, how can anybody be certain that their money will be there to keep the chopper running when they show up in June? Really?

 

Overall I think eBay is a great way to get the visibility you're seeking, and some aviation businesses have done it well (Aviator Academy I think was taking bids on their ground school program at a reasonably reduced cost, and that's how I learned about them). But because of the lack of detail in this offer, if it goes bad for you or the student it's probably going to go really really bad.

 

Or maybe I have to stop reading so many of Fry's posts. Idunno. Good luck.

 

 

 

1. I have put TONS of thought and planning into this, maybe I need to add some more info into the listing, honestly I didnt think too many people would read it. I will add more to the listing tonight.

 

2. Telling them not to bid if they cant wait until June is just being upfront. My ship isn't out of overhaul until then. When I say "Payment must be made before any ground or any flight time is acquired. Balance must be paid in full." That is just for this auction, it is a special deal and it must be bought all at once. The payment doesn't need to be taken until the day they start, but it dos need to be paid all at once.

 

3. When I was in training I would get school loans and they would go in a "Schools Account" and they would list in their program how much money I had and bill me every hr flown. Its the same thing here, it just sits in the schools account and the student gets billed every hour. On ANY other rating (not a special from ebay) the student is more than welcome to pay hour my hour and never have money on account. The reason we have to have this is because Sallie Mae requires it. When a student gets a loan, it HAS to go into a "schools" account. It is illegal to give it to the student and let them pay themselves.

 

I will revise the listing tonight so keep your eyes on it, I didn't realize it would get so much attention I was kind of testing the waters with it..........

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So what happens when some 400-pounder wins this auction??

 

What if they're from another country and don't speak English?? That's a req for any FAA rating, so you better be ready to teach them the English language.

 

You say they have to have a "valid" medical. A deaf person can get a "valid" medical, it just has lots of restrictions.

 

You are opening yourself up for so, SO many headaches. Absolutely horrible idea if you ask me.......

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Its an interesting business model, but I'm sure you can see why people would be skeptical. Plus, if you promise anything there will always be people who are going to try to get something for nothing and take advantage of it. Not everyone can learn to fly a helicopter.... so don't promise that they will be able to.

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I dont think its a bad idea at all. While on the subject, there is a guy about an hour from the Robinson course doing the ebay deal, but instead of the private pilot he offers the turbine trasition in the oh-6. I met the guy, very nice and has a great ship. I think the asking price is between 2 and 3 grand!

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Your reply about sallie mae is incorrect, they offer a direct loan that goes to the student who payes the school.Do you happen to know the N number on your helicopter, and how many students have you passed since starting. I may be running my mouth but I also warned this site about Doug at High Sierra, another "good old boy" who needs a chance to show his stuff. Like WC Fields said "a sucker is born everyday".

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