Silver State Helicopter Down south of Jacksonville

[Rob Lyman]

Two died in helo crash today in Ponte Vedra, just south of Jacksonville, FL. I offer my condolences to those aboard and their families.

 

Here's the story.

 

And another short story.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Rob Lyman

[franky17]

wow, thats too bad, my prayers go out to those peoples families. I am interested to see the NTSB report

[ChprPlt]

Wow thats too bad. Hits close to home being a SSH choper. RIP

[zemogman]

That's horrible...my condolences to the family!

[dlo22]

First off, very depressing to hear this sad news, I really hope the families get through their hardship comfortably.

 

I just wonder if the helicopters would have went down, 30 yards further out, and crash landed in the shallow waters of the ocean, if this would have changed anything at all, R22 are not well known for thier survivability, just wish it would have been different, its really tragic and too bad.....

 

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families as they suffer their loss..

[mechanic]

That close to the shoreline and wobbling as it came down makes you wonder if they picked up a Kite String? I've heard of it on R22's, but not a 44.

 

 

 

Condolences to the families involved..

[gft]

Occupants were 38 year old Tamara Williams a CFI from California

and a student, 24 year old Justin Wyatt Duncan of Jacksonville.

 

Crash site is four minute flight from my pad-

 

gft

[birddog]

Thoughts and prayers are with the family.

 

 

One story said it was a 44 and another said it was a 22, anyone know for sure?

 

 

Matt

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Occupants were 38 year old Tamara Williams a CFI from California

and a student, 24 year old Justin Wyatt Duncan of Jacksonville.

 

Crash site is four minute flight from my pad-

 

gft

 

 

This is very sad to hear. Wish the best for the friends and family.

 

Someone said something about kites. Yes they are out there. Yes I have seen them as high as 400' sometimes. I make it a habbit not too fly over the beach but over the water or downwind of the kites but still close enough to make the beach if something happens. I recomend others do the same. Also, don't fly too low(below 500') unless you have too. Just some advise I thought I would share.

 

JD

[gft]

Aircraft was a 44.

No cause announced.

Wind was east / northeast today-

If chopper was over water kites would have been inshore.

Plenty of eyewitness reports on local TV here, no mention of kites.

[Bristol]

Wow, that's really bad.

I guess we will all find out what happened when the report comes out.

That is a bummer.

[John90290]

:

Thoughts and prayers are with the family.

One story said it was a 44 and another said it was a 22, anyone know for sure?

Matt

 

it was a 44

********************************************************************************

** Report created 3/28/2007 Record 1 **

********************************************************************************

 

IDENTIFICATION

Regis#: 744SH Make/Model: R44 Description: R-44 Astro

Date: 03/27/2007 Time: 1445

 

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N

Damage: Destroyed

 

LOCATION

City: PONTE VEDRA State: FL Country: US

 

DESCRIPTION

N744SH, A SILVER STATE HELICOPTER R44 ROTORCRAFT, CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN

CIRCUMSTANCES, THE TWO PERSONS ON BOARD WERE FATALLY INJURED, PONTE VEDRA,

FL

 

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 2

# Crew: 2 Fat: 2 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

 

WEATHER: 1445Z SPECI VRB05KT 10SM BKN034 BKN042 24/16 A3024

 

OTHER DATA

Activity: Training Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER

 

Departed: JACKSONVILLE, FL Dep Date: Dep. Time:

Destination: JACKSONVILLE, FL Flt Plan: Wx Briefing:

Last Radio Cont:

Last Clearance:

 

FAA FSDO: ORLANDO, FL (SO15) Entry date: 03/28/2007

[Eagle4]

Such a horrible tragedy. Hits close to home being a new helicopter pilot and still in training. A horrible reminder to our helicopter family how quickly it can happen. My deepest regrets and prayers to the family and friends of these two pilots.

May God Bless you all and keep you safe

[montu]

Hits me too since I just started training. I got about 4 hours in the log book. My prayers are with their families. Such a sad incident.

[ADRidge]

That really REALLY sucks. My condolences to the family and friends of both pilots.

 

"each of us is created to die, but within me I know I was born to fly"

[hoverflyr]

Any accident is bad and commenting before the NTSB gives it's report may be inapproiate, but how many accidents will SSH have before the FAA will step in and question SSH training methoids. Of all the accidents that they have had I question how many were mechanical and how many were pilot error?

[ChprPlt]

Any accident is bad and commenting before the NTSB gives it's report may be inapproiate, but how many accidents will SSH have before the FAA will step in and question SSH training methoids. Of all the accidents that they have had I question how many were mechanical and how many were pilot error?

 

 

Dude SSH has an excellent safety record. You have to look at the % per flight hour. SSH is the largest flight school and therefore flys the most hours so of course you will hear about more accidents.

Edited March 29, 2007 by ChprPlt

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Dude SSH has an excellent safety record. You have to look at the % per flight hour. SSH is the largest flight school and therefore flys the most hours so of course you will hear about more accidents.

 

 

ChprPlt is absolutely right. You can't just look at the number of accidents, you have to also look at the flight times. Previous poster said it's not right to speculate before the NTSB report is final yet he assumed it had to do with SSH and their training method. Which I might add is no different than a part 141 school. In fact they are FAA 141 approved. Again, look at the flight hours flown. SSH does have a good safety record. Infact they are more proactive about safety than most schools I know as they have a safety program in place. It includes a safety officer at each location, meetings, a yearly company wide standdown and meeting at corprate, flight checks ect. Why don't we just wait until the report comes out. Even then, remember lives were lost and it could happen to anyone.

 

 

JD

[Worldcrime]

Silver State. When I was at the r22/r44 safety course there were a bunch of those guys. They knew it all. We should not speculate on the cause, but I have never heard anything positive about Silver State, ever. At heli-expo orlando I overheard some guys in Silver State garb, they knew it all too. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid SS boosters!

[Tenacious T]

Any accident is bad and commenting before the NTSB gives it's report may be inapproiate

 

Not maybe, definitely.

[jtravis1]

Sorry this is slightly off topic...

 

........ but I have never heard anything positive about Silver State, ever.

 

 

Well here is the first Let me say that I am not associated with SSH in any way. I did buy a 22 from them about a year ago. They also did my 10hr transition as I was not 22 qualified.

 

The maintenance on the ship was superb. The personal were enthusiastic and very helpful. It was refreshing to see the attitude that the mechanics had. I was out at Vegas where the ship was picked up.

 

When I was in their facility at Henderson, the student progress boards on the wall looked like most people were solo-ing at 20-25 hrs and getting their private at 40-50. Not all that bad especially considering the large pool of students.

 

I also got to spend a good amount of time with 3 different CFI's doing my 22 sign-off. Most were pretty happy. They felt they were treated fairly and that they got out what they put in. They indicated that the majority of people with "problems", are people who did not do what they were supposed to do. Some of my time with the CFI's were spent after hours, over some beers and I am sure they were talking freely.

 

I am not here to defend SSH but I am sick of the TOTALLY one sided view that is painted of them. I think their biggest problem is that they are not selective enough and have grown too quickly.

 

Enough on that.....Just one point of view.

 

And the 22 I bought from them has logged 400 trouble free hours and is still a joy to fly.

[hoverflyr]

I do not agree with your analogy of the" more hours more accidents theory" if that were the case than truck drivers would have more accidents than the old lady that drives to the market and back and thats not the case. We all have a right to chose where we go to train and your thinking would lead me away from the large schools that have many students and fly a lot of hours. we should not be concerned about the number of hours flown, we should be concerned about the quality of the training and unfortunatly accidents are a way of checking.

[Azpilot]

Sorry this is slightly off topic...

Well here is the first Let me say that I am not associated with SSH in any way. I did buy a 22 from them about a year ago. They also did my 10hr transition as I was not 22 qualified.

 

The maintenance on the ship was superb. The personal were enthusiastic and very helpful. It was refreshing to see the attitude that the mechanics had. I was out at Vegas where the ship was picked up.

 

When I was in their facility at Henderson, the student progress boards on the wall looked like most people were solo-ing at 20-25 hrs and getting their private at 40-50. Not all that bad especially considering the large pool of students.

 

I also got to spend a good amount of time with 3 different CFI's doing my 22 sign-off. Most were pretty happy. They felt they were treated fairly and that they got out what they put in. They indicated that the majority of people with "problems", are people who did not do what they were supposed to do. Some of my time with the CFI's were spent after hours, over some beers and I am sure they were talking freely.

 

I am not here to defend SSH but I am sick of the TOTALLY one sided view that is painted of them. I think their biggest problem is that they are not selective enough and have grown too quickly.

 

Enough on that.....Just one point of view.

 

And the 22 I bought from them has logged 400 trouble free hours and is still a joy to fly.

 

Jerry A. did something the other day that I actually considered admirable. He opened up to his critics on JH and left his personal phone number and Email to discuss the accident for those interested in speaking with him concerning it. He did not try to incite or try to pick a fight with people in the open forum.

 

That being said I guess we will have to wait until the NTSB final report o figure a cause on this but Jerry himself said something was amiss with PCL and the kite story would not be unheard of as another flight school lost an R-22 around Long Island last year to a kite.

 

SSH aside, my thoughts and condolences go out to the families of those that lost their loved ones in that crash.

[Heraclid]

It shocked me to hear about it. While in the Fleming Island area that day, I was overflown by a dark (black or navy) R-44 and stopped what I was doing to watch it. I wonder if it was the one that went down? Geez. I know we had a guy on here posting who was going to attend one of the seminars here that SSH held. I keep wondering if it was him. My condolences go out to their families and friends. And kite strings taking down helicopters?! I never would have imagined that. Wow.

 

I have always had a dream of flying helicopters and I live in Jacksonville. I don't know what to make of Silver State, and it's true that this may have had nothing to do with their business practices, whatever those may be. Normally having a new school open up almost in your backyard would have thrilled me. But they have held two seminars now here and I attended neither. Unfortunately, this is the sort of thing where if you are in doubt, it just makes sense to steer clear. I've read a lot about them and far too many people have their doubts about them. It also seems to me that their credibility is sufficiently in question that it would hurt someone in the job market if employers see that they got their training there. I really don't know if it is fair or not, but it is what it is. I'd rather take my chances with a school with a glowing reputation, like Tomlinson Aviation in Daytona.

 

I don't entirely buy the volume of flights arguments. Yes, we just had another go down in Hawaii, and a lot of helos go down there. And yes, there are a bazillion of them in the air every day there and the relative percentage of accidents versus flights must be extremely low, even though it seems like one always just happened out there. But on the other hand, I just think about HAI or other large schools that don't seem to have this problem.

[RAY RAY]

I DON'T GET HOW THIS SUBJECT BECOMES A PROS V'S CONS OF SSH. I'M NOT HERE TO DEFEND OR JUSTFY HOW SSH WORKS AND OPERATES, BUT HERES MY TWO CENTS....... I THINK FOR THE MOST PART SSH HAS AN AWESOME PROGRAM! I USE TO WORK FOR THEM AS A CFII I WAS A STUDENT AS WELL. I THINK ALL THE PEOPLE THAT BASH THEM JUST ARE MOM AND POP SCHOOLS FOR THE MOST AND THEY CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT AND PUT THE NUMBERS TOGETHER<< BIG STATEMENT HUH >> SILVER STATE HAS GOOD MARKETING THATS THE ONLY DIFFERNACE. THEY HAVE A GOOD GROUND AND FLIGHT SCHOOL PROGRAM, IF ANYTHING THE PROBLEMS YOU HEAR FROM THE STUDENTS ARE THE STUDENTS THAT WERE NOT MEANT TO FLY? IT IS NOT SSH DUTY TO STOP PEOPLES DREAMS ON BEING A HELICOPTER PILOT? THEY OFFER HORRIBLE FINANCING << THAT IS NOT THE BEST OPTION >>( NOT SSH'S FAULT THAT U ACCEPT IT) THEY ARE THEY WALMART OF FLIGHT SCHOOL, BUT EVERY CFI I MET AND WORKED WITH IN SSH WHERE FOR THE MOST PART VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THERE JOBS AND WHERE THERE TO GIVE THE BEST INSTRUCTION THEY COULD. I HAVE LEFT SSH ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO TO PRESUE MY CAREER AND I WORK FOR A AWESOME COMPANY IN THE GULF. I HAVE HAD THE CHANCE TO TALK TO MANY OTHER CIVILIAN TRAINED PILOTS AND ALL THE COMPLAINTS YOU HEAR ARE THE SAME AS WHAT EVERYONE POST ON THESE FORUMS KINDA FUNNY HUH?

 

SSH ASIDE, MY THOUGHTS AND CONDOLENCES GO OUT TO THE FAMILIES OF THOSE THAT LOST THEIR LOVE ONES IN THAT CRASH.

 

ANY ACCIDENT IS HORRIBLE IT SHOULDN'T MATTER WHAT FLIGHT SCHOOL OR EMPLOYER THESE PEOPLE WORKED FOR. IT WILL BE NICE TO FIND OUT WHAT WENT WRONG AND MAYBE WE COULD LEARN FROM IT. SORRY FOR THE BAD GRAMMER AND SPELLING, JUST TRYING TO GET A POINT ACROSS ACCIDENTS HAPPEN SOME COULD BE PREVENTED SOME CANNOT BUT IN ALL HONESTLY WHEN SH$T HAPPENS IT DOSN'T MATTER WHAT SCHOOL HOW MANY HOURS YOU HAVE JUST AS LONG AS YOU WALK AWAY FROM IT .......