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206 Crash Delaware


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"I'm starting out with an open mind and treating it as a separate accident," Gretz said.

Well, that's big of him, considering the other accident was a different type, and the pilot was killed, so this couldn't be the same pilot. Hard to say what happened in this one, but the December crash was a case of stupid catching up with the pilot, thus cleansing the gene pool. I actually know of one pilot who flew at dark in fog, but I think he hovered for about 50 miles down the beach. AFAIK he survived, but he scared me to death when I came up behind him in my car, with the visibility about 1/10 mile (the distance between telephone poles) and the ceiling at the top of the poles. I'm still amazed by the things people do, and that they sometimes survive them.

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Taking off and trying to fly VFR after dark, with less than 1/4 mile visibility in fog, in a 407, is just stupid, no matter who tries it. I never met her, but if she was the pilot of the 407, she wasn't thinking very clearly, and that's the most charitable way I can put it. Doing what she did is almost always fatal for everyone involved.

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Delaware 206 crash photos are at:

 

http://www.lewesfire.com/gallery.cfm?id=136

 

Richard

 

This is a particularly "helicopter" accident, and one of my nightmares as an EMSer. Some thoughts on wires for those reading that are new to the industry:

Wires will kill you dead. (This guy was extremely lucky.)

You don't see wires. Count on them being there and assume they are where they are most likely to be: Parallel to, and crossing roadways, especially look for them crossing at intersections, bridges, driveways, etc.; and around ANY cultural feature. If you don't see any wires, assume there's some you've missed, and work vertically in and out of the LZ, slowly and looking for poles, etc., until you're above anything near. I've seen single strand wires come out of the trees without any poles visible.

When you're looking for wires, look for the right of way or the poles and towers supporting the lines.

It's really hard to accurately judge clearance from the wire itself. Use the the poles, or a feature on the ground beneath the wires to locate yourself. Around here, there's almost always a fence at the edge of the road right of way.

Fields and pastures have wires, too, especially narrow ones. Look for the poles, especially over fences and clumps of brush.

If you can safely exit the bird in the LZ, do so, and spend a little time doing a ground recon. Walk as much of the boundary as you can.

Edited by Wally
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I'm rowing your canoe Gomer!

 

I too agree with your perspective!

 

 

So both of you 'Hero's' think her death was "cleansing the gene pool"?!

 

Amazing!

Must be nice to be perfect and only out on monday mornings after the game.

 

I am not condoning a low vis, low illum. T/O but GMAFB, "cleansing the gene pool"?

 

Tasteless.

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So both of you 'Hero's' think her death was "cleansing the gene pool"?!

 

Amazing!

Must be nice to be perfect and only out on monday mornings after the game.

 

I am not condoning a low vis, low illum. T/O but GMAFB, "cleansing the gene pool"?

 

Tasteless.

 

 

I agree with BillyBob,

 

I don't think anyone on here can say they have not made a bad decision in their flying career, some times you get out of it and learn a lesson and sometimes you die and someone else learns a lesson.

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Just a guess, but it looks to me like HeloAir has a thing for 30 something female pilots. Ohhhhhh....did I just say that? :P

 

I agree with Gomer, which makes me a target too..............................next! What the heck when you're a grounded hero, right?

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So both of you 'Hero's' think her death was "cleansing the gene pool"?!

 

Amazing!

Must be nice to be perfect and only out on monday mornings after the game.

 

I am not condoning a low vis, low illum. T/O but GMAFB, "cleansing the gene pool"?

 

Tasteless.

 

Tastless, I agree.

Accidents happen. To some of the best pilots AND to non experienced pilots.

Gomer, BillyBob is right. Think about it.

I hate to see anyone injured, no matter who it is.

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I posted the photo link so we all could learn something, not to get side-tracked on the previous Delaware 407 crash. Alisa should be left to rest in peace. This crash is about wires, and maybe complacency. The gene pool remark was uncalled for and one should never speak ill of the dead .

 

Richard

 

http://heli-safety.com/resources.html

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That's the one I read. I admit to have made many takeoffs and landings at night with 1/4 mile visibility, but it was at an airport, in an IFR aircraft with an IFR crew, and even then it was difficult. I've made many poor decisions over the years, and survived, but taking off under those conditions is almost never survivable, even for an experienced instrument-rated pilot. There are stupid decisions, and then there are terminally stupid decisions.

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If I may digress, I'm inclined towards "Gomer Pylot's" view, although he was rather blunt.

It's the final disrespect to a fellow professional to not honestly evaluate, discuss and learn from fatal errors. That's best done ASAP while the shock is fresh, and the most good can come from the lesson. If you have to be without fault to engage in the process, you're not going to learn anything, anyhow- be quiet and don't waste my time.

Be professional, be rational, be respectful, and remember that it could be you, next time. Be wrong on the ground.

Edited by Wally
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Wally is being charitable with 'rather blunt', but I said what I said for a reason. I've survived this profession long enough to know better than to take off in the dark in heavy fog, regardless of the pressure being exerted by the customer, and so has Wally. But if younger, less experienced pilots don't learn from accidents like that one, then we're going to lose more pilots. I can remember countless times an oil company foreman ordered me to fly in really crappy weather, and times when I really wanted to get to the beach when the weather was crappy. I know how the pressures can add up, and I also know that bowing to those pressures can kill you within a minute. I've been able to resist, but I knew several pilots who couldn't, and didn't live to tell about it. I know a few who did live, and vowed never to do it again. My point is that it's better to learn the lesson now, on the ground, as Wally said, than to be another bad example. If I could teach newer pilots anything, it would be that.

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People do things in stress situations without thinking them through, the Boss says go get these people, you do, is your thinking skewed by the dispatcher\boss saying\asking you to do this.

There are numerous posts about wither to fly or not ( jobs on the line etc )

Did you do your own evaluation? or were you lulled int a sense of security by your superiors request ?

The time taken to do your own evaluation could save your life.

I do not think GP was being personal, but making a general comment about poor judgment, remember he as been out there for a lot longer than most of us, & as he says yes he has made bad calls as we all have!!

Wire strikes scare the c**p out of me you just cant see the things and as for Kites at 500Ft.+ yecch, don't even go there.

We all feel for any family that have lost a loved one, I have had real close friends who have been killed in boats and cars due to their lack of awareness but it did not make it any easier on their family or friends

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There are similar pressures in the military. Never will it be the guy on the ground's responsibility that the accident happens. When you pick the aircraft up, you, the pilot, will be the sole person responsible for the safe conduct of the helicopter. If there is an accident, more than likely, the boss will not get much more than an honorable mention and I don't think he/she is going to say, "Well, I did pressure him/her to go."

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That's the one I read. I admit to have made many takeoffs and landings at night with 1/4 mile visibility, but it was at an airport, in an IFR aircraft with an IFR crew, and even then it was difficult. I've made many poor decisions over the years, and survived, but taking off under those conditions is almost never survivable, even for an experienced instrument-rated pilot. There are stupid decisions, and then there are terminally stupid decisions.

 

 

I have talked with friends of this pilot - and they think that this is most likely a case of a really good pilot making a very poor decision based on lots of pressure from a very rich client with no aviation experience who just "had to get back home now". She was a young female pilot, he was a rich real estate developer in his mid 40's who was a valuable client to the company she worked for. Those of us who work for the government or the military probably do not understand this too well because our jobs are not threatened if we abort a mission for safety reasons. Pilots working in private industry should not feel threatened either, but if they lose a client, that hurts their bottom line. It is incumbent upon the employers to let their pilots know that they will back them 100% when they make smart safety decisions - even if the rich customer takes his business elsewhere.

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