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Getting In, Cost Vs. Pay off Ratio?


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I am about to enter the indistry, probrably going to spend around 80,000. Trying so despretly to get a loan and every time the converstaion comes up with my wife, the next question she ask is... "do you think we can pay that back..." Mathematicaly speeking SLM's 15 pay back, at 180 months with an 70,000 loan is upwards of 600.00 monthly. Can a CFI Bank that, get the hours, and still fly away...?

 

First post here, Thank you.

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Dean,

 

A good place to start is the FAQ section in the Flight Training Forum, it's pinned and will be easy to find. I attached some below on financing and pay however I'm not sure if they will function as liks...(if they don't you can type them in...

 

Financing-

1. http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/helicopterfor...ic=4254&hl=

2. http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/helicopterfor...ic=4242&hl=

3. http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/helicopterfor...37&hl=loans

4. http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/helicopterfor...?showtopic=3966

5. http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/helicopterfor...18&hl=loans

 

Once at the FAQ...scroll down and you'll get an idea of pay scales.

 

Hope this helps...

Edited by zemogman
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Good point Rotor...sorry I missed that.

 

Dean...You did mention 70K also in your post...are you looking into Silver State Helicopters???

 

If you are...do plenty of research. You'll find numerous schools in the 50K to 60K range through CFI including Instruments...ending with roughly 170-200 hours.

 

200 x 250 (average hourly rate in a Schweizer 300) is 50K.

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Well, to be honest you all are right, i think the 80 was to much , even the 70 as well. Entering into the field i was afriad that if i got a loan for to little then i would be to short, and not be able to complete my training. I am currently looking into sky helicopters, garland texas... im not sure on the total number, i havent called just yet... still... after everything is said and done, i bet intrest will take it up that high.

 

thank you for all of your comments..

 

Dean

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nobody thinks about all the bs "ground" and "instruction" time. example, my flight today was dual IFR for 1.6 @ $213.75. thats 342.00. plus 1.6 of dual instructor time @ $50.00. Thats 80.00. Then .2 of "ground" (filling out logbook, debriefing flight) also @ $50.00 hr. thats another ten clams. For a grand total of $432.00 for one training flight. When people consider loans or at least calculate totals, it seems they only focus on the hourly "rental" rate at the school they are attending ($213.75). I realize this is different at each school but $342.00 is a lot less then the $432.00 you end up paying. It adds up quick, better to get more than you need than not have enough.

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Dean- I realize I am going way out on a limb here. I will go straight to my closet and put on my Point Blank Vest !!

 

Lay out what your payments are going to be each month, with interest. Then, starting at basic CFI, start laying in some income. I don't see how anyone can pay this back, even after 5 years...and then what are you supposed to be living on ?

 

Its not that I want to discourage helo pilots..just take a realistic view of the cost/benefit ratios.

 

You can get your private with about 12K and a lot of home study. You can take a few classes at a local college, build another 100 hours and get your commercial. Some of those hours you can buy for as little as $125/hour. Once you have your PPLH just look around, spend some time with some pilots. There are always free rides, shuttling aircraft around, and time building with other pilots that will save you big $. I honestly think you can get to commercial for around 25-30K total.

 

By saving up FIRST, then five years from now you will have your commercial and be debt free of any helicopter charges. I know its a longer road than you wanted. But it will still be there 5 years down the road. You could also get your private now ( if you have the 12K) and then just time build as you can afford it.

 

Just my honest opinion....I'll go move away from my windows now.

 

Goldy

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Dean- I realize I am going way out on a limb here. I will go straight to my closet and put on my Point Blank Vest !!

 

Lay out what your payments are going to be each month, with interest. Then, starting at basic CFI, start laying in some income. I don't see how anyone can pay this back, even after 5 years...and then what are you supposed to be living on ?

 

Its not that I want to discourage helo pilots..just take a realistic view of the cost/benefit ratios.

 

You can get your private with about 12K and a lot of home study. You can take a few classes at a local college, build another 100 hours and get your commercial. Some of those hours you can buy for as little as $125/hour. Once you have your PPLH just look around, spend some time with some pilots. There are always free rides, shuttling aircraft around, and time building with other pilots that will save you big $. I honestly think you can get to commercial for around 25-30K total.

 

By saving up FIRST, then five years from now you will have your commercial and be debt free of any helicopter charges. I know its a longer road than you wanted. But it will still be there 5 years down the road. You could also get your private now ( if you have the 12K) and then just time build as you can afford it.

 

Just my honest opinion....I'll go move away from my windows now.

 

 

Goldy

 

 

 

Goldy, great advice here. Taking out a loan makes it very difficult for any new CFI or even commercial pilot to make any type of living. As previously stated most people forget the intangibles of flight training ahich can easily run upwards of 10k. People will take out a loan and then run out of money before they finish. Now they are stuck without the ratings they need and unable to get more money and have a huge debt to pay off. Even if they calculate enough for school now they are stuck with a huge payment after flight school somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 dollars a month. If the student now has any kind of car payment/credit card debt they might easily be 1000-1200 a month in debt to loan comapnies. Factor in the average rent/utilities of around 1000 a month and your up around 2000-2200 right there. THis doesnt even factor in food or gas (or most important beer). The average flight instructor averages around 2000-25000 dollars a month so there really isnt much to go around with a loan.

 

I've seen instructors live off one meal a day because thats all they can affors. I've also seen people who have managed to reach that 1000 hour mark and get a decent paying job but still are having difficuly making ends meet due to a huge loan payment. If they want to buy a house they can pretty much forget about it.

 

Many people are in a huge rush to get out there and forget about the consequenses later. If you are single and young the loan might work but if you have family it might pretty much cause you to lose that family. I payed it off one flight at a time, never took out a loan and ended up spending around 35 grand. Then again this was almost 10 years ago so prices may have gone up. I just didnt want to be saddled in debt after I was finished. It took several years but the job was still there when I finished as it will be for every one. This worked for me but I know it doesnt work for evryone. Good luck in whatever choice you decide on.

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Can someone with experience develop a list of "other ways" to build hours. I'm sure most people awant to keep this info to themselves (understandable if that's the case) however; a list of KNOWN possibilities would be appreciated. Most students will not do the research to track down or find the opportunities...but I know I will and some others might also.

 

All we need is a direction to look...

 

I got these Goldy --- Thanks >>

 

Any other known opportunities to keep in mind for us noobs???

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$50/hr for ground instuction???? WOW. How much of that is the instructor getting? We charged $20/hr flat for the ground divided by how many students were in the room. 4 guys made it $5/hr a piece. Great deal and encouraged more people to come.

yeah it was $20/hr but they make up some bs that ifr training is more detailed and challenging for the instructor so they jack it up to $50. I don't know for sure but I think the instructors make very little at this school so the boss is probably sittin pretty. Actually, I know he is but thats all i can say without ruining the schools rep.

 

oh by the way.... "ground school" here is a read along in the jep. commercial/ifr gray book with your instructor. thank god there's no required ground for ifr cert.

Edited by coanda
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Can someone with experience develop a list of "other ways" to build hours. I'm sure most people awant to keep this info to themselves (understandable if that's the case) however; a list of KNOWN possibilities would be appreciated. Most students will not do the research to track down or find the opportunities...but I know I will and some others might also.

 

All we need is a direction to look...

 

I got these Goldy --- Thanks <<<There are always free rides, shuttling aircraft around, and time building with other pilots>>>

 

Any other known opportunities to keep in mind for us noobs???

 

 

Zemog- Time for a PM.. ! Goldy

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when i got a 11,000 car at a 12% apr, it ended up being about 21g's, i wonder what 60g's will end up being, even if i opp out for the 25 year payment consoladation it ends up being pretty high. My wife supports me, and poor, bankrupt, or fleeing the country i have that stability. flying helicopters is only a recent devolpment in my short life. With that said, hopefuly all the BS CFI work, High payback, and years of training, pay off to do what i want, Forest fight/Search and rescue. What's so difficult is find a SAR job that pays, i may be fairly stupid :( but i havent found anything just yet. Texas wise atleast... So i hope im not second guessing my dream job...

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  • 4 weeks later...
when i got a 11,000 car at a 12% apr, it ended up being about 21g's, i wonder what 60g's will end up being, even if i opp out for the 25 year payment consoladation it ends up being pretty high. My wife supports me, and poor, bankrupt, or fleeing the country i have that stability. flying helicopters is only a recent devolpment in my short life. With that said, hopefuly all the BS CFI work, High payback, and years of training, pay off to do what i want, Forest fight/Search and rescue. What's so difficult is find a SAR job that pays, i may be fairly stupid :( but i havent found anything just yet. Texas wise atleast... So i hope im not second guessing my dream job...

 

If you would like some real time numbers and figures, I would be happy to go over some reasonable options for you. You can e-mail me anytime at Jody@ssheli.com Even if our options won't work for you, at least I might be able to help you get a better idea as to what you're looking at as far as financing options in the industry and realistic figures with substantial data to back them up. I do work for Silver State and can tell you the typical financing options may not suite you and would never be pushed on you... but this doesn't mean there aren't other options available. You will have a hard time convincing me that our program isn't the best, however the financing aspect can appear to leave a lot to be desired if you don't do enough research. That's where I come in to help.

 

I'm available with informaiton for anyone debating the classic quesiton of "How do I afford Flight School?"

It's been my profession for the past five years and counting.

Good luck in your decisions and I hope to hear from you!

 

Jody Pidruzny

(Student Finance Manager)

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I was able to get information on a 20 year term with SLM. The APR is .1% lower than the 15 year term (wahoo!) but basically the payments are lower. I plan to spend far less than 20 years repaying it, so money saved. Contact the school see what they say, and talk to their SLM representative.

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