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300 or 22 for Training?  

44 members have voted

  1. 1. I prefer to .............

    • Train somone else in a R-22
      4
    • Be trained in R-22
      14
    • Train somone else in a S 300
      17
    • Be trained in S 300
      22


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There are many 300 accidents listed on the NTSB site. Not as many as the R22 or R44, but there are still quite a few. R22 was never designed as a training heli, but its cheap so lots of people use them. They both have their positives, i chose to fly the 300, its been around a long time in one form or another, and its more stable. From what I hear the R22 is more of a sportscar. I would say try them both, and fly the one you feel more comfortable in.

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Yep,

 

Try 'em both and see which one you like best. I did and prefer the 300 but others prefer the 22. The 300 versus the 22 debate has been done ad nauseum on this forum with no clear winner ever prevailing in my opinion. I guess that means it just comes down to personal preference.

 

Also, some words of advice someone gave me. Try to think ahead to which helicopter you'd rather teach in if you plan on making a career out of it. After all, the majority of your early hours will be in that role.

 

-V5

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Here we go again...... :blink:

 

I have been given the advice to pick the school based on the people first, and the aircraft second. If the people at the school with the 300s are jerks, youd be better off at the school with R22 and vice-versa. Especially if you dont have experience in either. I also think you may have an advantage getting your private in one and finishing in the other. Then you can go CFI at any school you want.

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I have been given the advice to pick the school based on the people first, and the aircraft second. If the people at the school with the 300s are jerks, youd be better off at the school with R22 and vice-versa. Especially if you dont have experience in either. I also think you may have an advantage getting your private in one and finishing in the other. Then you can go CFI at any school you want.

Absolutely! In addition location plays into it unless you are planning to move. In the Phoenix area I only know of one small school flying 300's while there are several flying R-22's. I've also noticed that the 300's seem to be $20 - $50 more per hour than the R-22's. Maybe that evens out by needing fewer hours for the 300's... Everything else being equal go for the school that you feel offers you the best instruction.

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Here we go again...... :blink:

 

I have been given the advice to pick the school based on the people first, and the aircraft second. If the people at the school with the 300s are jerks, youd be better off at the school with R22 and vice-versa. Especially if you dont have experience in either. I also think you may have an advantage getting your private in one and finishing in the other. Then you can go CFI at any school you want.

 

 

Also a very good point!

 

-V5

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Also a very good point!

 

-V5

 

Ditto, opens the door a bit wider toward future employment.

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I got my private helicopter certificate in a Robbie, and now I'm continuing on in the 300. The difference between the two is amazing. The 300 is much more stable and forgiving - as a trainer should be.

 

I think every Robbie student should also get to try an hour or two in the 300. It is useful to compare and contrast the two, and all of the workings of the clutch system are visible and accessible so it is easy to see how things work. On the other hand, it's no sportster - the 40 knot best climb speed takes some getting used to.... <_>

 

I also kept looking for the "Don't Do This Or You Will Die" section of the Schweizer Information Manual... It doesn't exist.

There is a whole section devoted to it in the Robinson Operating Handbook. :o

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Get your 50 plus hours in the R22 so you can teach in it....the R22 is almost always cheaper, but you if you are going to teach as well..you really should have both.

 

As far as the NTSB, you have to search under the different 300 types....ie, 269, 269A, 300, etc....just search under "Make- Hughes" and "Make- Schweizer" and you will see them all....don't enter a model number.

 

Personally, the more I fly.,..the more I dislike both of them.

 

How about someone make a thread on what qualities from each type bird would make a good training helo...

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How about someone make a thread on what qualities from each type bird would make a good training helo...

 

So what is stopping you from starting one Goldy? I think that is a great idea to come up with the supposed perfect trainer!

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Tscott N

 

After flying both and a new type (AeroKopter AK1-3) I feel that 30% my hours of R-22 time was dedicated to learning to safely fly an R-22, not helicopters in general. The other posters are perfectly correct if you are heading for a CFI starter job - you need 230 hours min. of R-22 time. You may find an S300 outfit that will work with you, but plan carefully, allot of money is at stake.

 

Insurability is your next obsticle after your time and ratings.

 

Hands down the S300 is more stable in a hover and simpler to auto and slope land. (I just put in another 4 hours in a 300CBi) You will spend hours in the pattern in an R-22 learning to auto and 180 auto. Slopes are a pain and stability in the wind a handful. The SFAR, govenor, associated training criteria and new blades have had a positive result in the R-22. See the new flight test report of the AK1-3 AeroKopter in www.ptarmigan-heli.com to compare what a modern, highly engineered machine can do.

 

All the best

 

MROSE

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Thanks everyone for the quality of information you have all provided. I did find all the other 300 vs. 22 posts, and man I am almost sorry I started a new one...) But this also helped since much of the info you guys have given is fresh and unbiased.

Since posting this topic, I have had a chance to fly both the 44 and the 300. I am leaning towards getting my PPL in the 300 then maybe moving to the 22 sometime thereafter. I think this is a good plan as it will give me the chance to get acquainted to both machines as well as giving me the 50 hrs I need to teach in the 22.

 

I do want to thank everyone for your impute, I think mrose is right about the new safety features making a positive impact on the 22.

 

I want to leave on this note...

 

After doing much research about 22 accidents, one thing seems clear to me...

 

Many accidents are caused by students and pilots doing stupid things or trying things that are beyond their abilities or the abilities of the machine in general...

 

Many people compare the 22 to a Ferrari or a high end sports car... Can you imagine how many accidents there would be on the road if you gave each new driver a Porsche, Ferrari, or any hi-performance sports car to learn in...? The agility and power sometimes makes people think they can do things that are really not up to there abilities.

 

I think I will learn on in the Ford Festiva and then move on to the Corvette when I have the knowledge to truly appreciate and understand the potential of the machine.

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  • 4 years later...

I haven't flown a 300, only the R44, and only at 22 hrs, but I guess I don't see why not to train in a Robbie. If the instructor stresses the importance of the 5 things in SFAR73, the student understands it, things should be relatively safe. Learning to fly in something that requires strict attention and control of rotor rpm and manifold press, especially at a higher DA, like here in Prescott, is a great idea, and should make flying a 300, or even many other helos relatively easier. With the right procedures in place at a school, and quality instructors, safety isn't an issue, for me anyhow. But everyone is different.

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Many people compare the 22 to a Ferrari or a high end sports car

 

Haha, thats funny and probably mostly coming from people who have only flown a 22. It's neither thats for sure.

 

I trained in a 300, trained people in them and was lucky enough to only acquire 1.3 hours of 22 time in my career so far. I personally don't like the 22 at all but some do and they have their advantages; cheaper, faster, etc. The 44 is a very nice machine to fly though.

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Five years later.... Five years later and why was this thread resurrected? Come on people.... "SuperStallion6113"

 

I didn't just decide to knowingly bump a 5yr old thread. It was at the top of the page , 1st thread below the stickied threads so I replied w/o looking at the date. I certainly didn't go searching. Simple mistake. My bad. How was such an old thread so high up on the page before I posted?

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If the instructor stresses the importance of the 5 things in SFAR73, the student understands it, things should be relatively safe. Learning to fly in something that requires strict attention and control of rotor rpm and manifold press, especially at a higher DA, like here in Prescott, is a great idea, and should make flying a 300, or even many other helos relatively easier.

 

In my opinion,

 

Strict awareness of rotor RPM, power settings, altitudes and atmospheric conditions is required for any and all machines. The SFAR was initially issued due to the problems surrounding the R22. The R44 was guilty merely by association. While the Robinson products are safe to operate, the dark cloud will always remain albeit a thinning is currently taking place by unbeknownst CFI’s….

 

While this is an old thread it’s worth resurrection.

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