Live your dream...

[fry]

From a poster at JH in a thread, "Why they leaving [EMS]"

 

My hospital just changed contracts. The bennies are awful and the money is lowball. Again! I will not bad mouth my employeer, because he is just like the rest. I am tired of PD, DofOps, and chief pilots telling me they know the pay is low and they are working on it. But you never get more than 1-3% period,. because "We are not making Money" they say. Even though we make more flights every year Everywhere I look other professionals in other sectors with less experience and formal educations, continue to add benifits and their salrys are unbeliveabol. Three weeks ago I ran into a guy who I have gone to church with for three years now but did not know what he did. Come to find out he was one of the hospital computer network guys. He's 28 yrs old with a four year degree in his field and got his first job here right after college age 23. I asked him in confidence how much he was getting paid and I shared with him how much they were paying me to be SPIFR. I got 6 years here, flying as a civil pro for 11 years and former military with 21 years. Over 7800 hrs in various types, BS degree I make 62K he makes 73. It is time to leave EMS and never look back.

 

And from another (Lyn, the founder of the JH board):

 

EMS where I was = low pay (60's) and crappy schedule (4/4).

 

In 04 I left for a large pay increase and better schedule, just that simple. EMS operators are too cheap to offer anything attractive and most of us are desparate enough to keep taking it.

[FUSE]

From a poster at JH in a thread, "Why they leaving [EMS]"

 

My hospital just changed contracts. The bennies are awful and the money is lowball. Again! I will not bad mouth my employeer, because he is just like the rest. I am tired of PD, DofOps, and chief pilots telling me they know the pay is low and they are working on it. But you never get more than 1-3% period,. because "We are not making Money" they say. Even though we make more flights every year Everywhere I look other professionals in other sectors with less experience and formal educations, continue to add benifits and their salrys are unbeliveabol. Three weeks ago I ran into a guy who I have gone to church with for three years now but did not know what he did. Come to find out he was one of the hospital computer network guys. He's 28 yrs old with a four year degree in his field and got his first job here right after college age 23. I asked him in confidence how much he was getting paid and I shared with him how much they were paying me to be SPIFR. I got 6 years here, flying as a civil pro for 11 years and former military with 21 years. Over 7800 hrs in various types, BS degree I make 62K he makes 73. It is time to leave EMS and never look back.

 

And from another (Lyn, the founder of the JH board):

 

EMS where I was = low pay (60's) and crappy schedule (4/4).

 

In 04 I left for a large pay increase and better schedule, just that simple. EMS operators are too cheap to offer anything attractive and most of us are desparate enough to keep taking it.

 

 

But money isn't everything. I make 88K a year with the federal govt. as an IT Specialist but want to get out so bad that I'm willing to take a HUGE paycut to do something that I love. I never liked computers but thought money was everything so this is what I did. Have been doing it for 14 years and can't wait to get out. I wish I knew then what I know now that money really means nothing if your hating your job. Plus, the more money you make the more money you spend. I still live pretty much paycheck to paycheck just like almost every single other person I know here in the DC area. And we all make good money....

 

Plus think of this. The poster that you quoted here works a 4/4 schedule for 60k a year. I work 5/2 for 88k a year. He works about 182 days a year where I work 234. I'm paid for 260, but I have 15 days vacation and 11 holidays. So I physically only work 234. So I physically work 23% more than he does. For pay I get 27% more pay. So for the amount worked, I really only make 4% more than he does. He has a better chance to get a second job than I do and make more money which would close that gap even more, possibly put the money in his favor.... It's all how you look at it.

 

I hope I will one day be making low 60's doing something I love. Beats the hell out of high 80's doing something I hate.

[slick1537]

Good thing I don't want to be an EMS pilot fry.

[ADRidge]

Good thing I don't want to be an EMS pilot fry.

I second that emotion. GoM for me.

[jet trash]

From a poster at JH in a thread, "Why they leaving [EMS]"

 

My hospital just changed contracts. The bennies are awful and the money is lowball. Again! I will not bad mouth my employeer, because he is just like the rest. I am tired of PD, DofOps, and chief pilots telling me they know the pay is low and they are working on it. But you never get more than 1-3% period,. because "We are not making Money" they say. Even though we make more flights every year Everywhere I look other professionals in other sectors with less experience and formal educations, continue to add benifits and their salrys are unbeliveabol. Three weeks ago I ran into a guy who I have gone to church with for three years now but did not know what he did. Come to find out he was one of the hospital computer network guys. He's 28 yrs old with a four year degree in his field and got his first job here right after college age 23. I asked him in confidence how much he was getting paid and I shared with him how much they were paying me to be SPIFR. I got 6 years here, flying as a civil pro for 11 years and former military with 21 years. Over 7800 hrs in various types, BS degree I make 62K he makes 73. It is time to leave EMS and never look back.

 

And from another (Lyn, the founder of the JH board):

 

EMS where I was = low pay (60's) and crappy schedule (4/4).

 

In 04 I left for a large pay increase and better schedule, just that simple. EMS operators are too cheap to offer anything attractive and most of us are desparate enough to keep taking it.

 

throwing out some more flame bait are ya fry??

[helidave]

Maybe it's just me, but $62k a year for 4/4 schedule isn't what I would call "low pay".

 

 

What do you do for a living Fry? How much do you make?

[Sparker]

Maybe it's just me, but $62k a year for 4/4 schedule isn't what I would call "low pay".

What do you do for a living Fry? How much do you make?

 

He'll never tell ya....

[mechanic]

he was one of the hospital computer network guys. He's 28 yrs old with a four year degree in his field and got his first job here right after college age 23

 

You are not comparing apples to apples. But, I see your point. If you like computers, you prob could make more than 73K. My Sis makes 50's with a 2 year CC AS in computers.

 

And from another (Lyn, the founder of the JH board):

 

Lyn bought the JH board from a guy named Bill something if I remember correctly.

 

And from another (Lyn, the founder of the JH board):

 

EMS where I was = low pay (60's) and crappy schedule (4/4).

 

Lyn Burks 12 Things from JH

 

I don't blame Lyn for leaving the EMS job he had. He went corp flying a A109E for a energy company, I think FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT CO, but could be wrong. Lyn was in the Marines, got out was a flight paramedic, got his pilot license in a Robbie, and worked his way up to corp aviation, and bought the JH's website.

 

So whats your point about not being able to succeed in the Heli industry???

[Wally]

I sympathize and I'm sorry to see an experienced professional leave the field. EMS and training is where that experience can be most broadly shared- and flight instruction definitely sucks compared to EMS.

I see the "job" improving gradually with many forces driving it:

AMC is organized, a union company;

There is inarguably fewer guys coming to EMS with multiples of thousands of hours and decades of experience;

The industry is being forced to acknowledge some very serious issues with commonly accepted practices;

4&4 is a really bad schedule among many crappy schedules. AMC's contract denies the company the right to FORCE schedules on pilots.

 

I'll continue the job until it's not personally worth it any more. I would recommend that nobody burns any bridges, I think the rate of improvement for pilots, especially for professional EMSers, will increase rapidly in the next few years. There's lots of money being made by some companies, and the rest will adapt or succumb.

[500pilot]

='FUSE' date='Apr 26 2007, 19:19 ' post='45345']

But money isn't everything. I make 88K a year with the federal govt. as an IT Specialist but want to get out so bad that I'm willing to take a HUGE paycut to do something that I love. I never liked computers but thought monejust like almost every single other person I know here in the DC area. And we all make good money....[/y was everything so this is what I did. Have been doing it for 14 years and can't wait to get out. I wish I knew then what I know now that money really means nothing if your hating your job. Plus, the more money you make the more money you spend. I still live pretty much paycheck to paycheck

 

I hope I will one day be making low 60's doing something I love. Beats the hell out of high 80's doing something I hate.[/

 

 

 

This is what most operators see when they advertise for pilots, people wanting to fly because thats what they love to do. Because of this they will tend to low ball many pilots when it comes to pay. Right now many of the people on this board are in training and are fascinated by the thought of flying and see the huge shiny turbine as this great thing to shoot for. This is great, but no pilot should ever say since I love to fly I will take less money. Many pilots that I know have been in the same boat and got thier CFI, did the instructing thing and then got thier first turbine job. Then they say "whats next?" All this hard work to get to where they are at and now they are stuck making 45-50k struggling to pay the bills. While you may be unhappy making 85k when you start making 45k and have a family to feed, a mortgage etc many pilots have a hard time making ends meet.

 

In reality LYN was making much less than 65k a year. He was living in an area that had one of the highest cost of living in the country so that 65k is really around 45-50k somewhere else. The problem with this industry is they dont reward you for experience. A person a most companies can be management and make a decent salary and if they leave that company for a new company they will pretty much start where they were at thier old job. In the helo industry a pilot can start at a company, earn several raises and start making OK money. If that company goes under or the pilot has to leave if he wants a job at another comapny he has to start all over making the same amount of money as a brand new 1000hour pilot. (no offense to the new people coming up) I love flying myself and couldnt imangine doing anything else but I also know what I'm worth with my experience and wouldnt settle for anything less. I feel very lucky to have gotten into the job that I am at making what I make but this job can go away in a minute and I would have to start all over.

 

 

Plus think of this. The poster that you quoted here works a 4/4 schedule for 60k a year. I work 5/2 for 88k a year. He works about 182 days a year where I work 234. I'm paid for 260, but I have 15 days vacation and 11 holidays. So I physically only work 234. So I physically work 23% more than he does. For pay I get 27% more pay. So for the amount worked, I really only make 4% more than he does. .

 

This is another miscoception in the industry. People think that we only work half a year. Most pilots in EMS work a 12 hour duty day and in the gulf they work a 14 hour duty day. If you figure a 14 hour duty day a pilot working 7/7 works 196 hours a month. A 12 hour duty day and a pilot works 168 hours a month. Your typical 5/2 8hours a day only works 160 hours a month. This doesnt factor in that the pilot might pick up an extra hitch here and there to make ends meet to make up for his loss of salary. If you break the hourly down the pilot works much more and makes much less.

 

 

He has a better chance to get a second job than I do and make more money which would close that gap even more, possibly put the money in his favor.... It's all how you look at it

 

Also, why should a pilot have to work two jobs to make ends meet. The wear and tear of flying kill the body and a pilot needs rest. Working a second job leads to fatigue and in this industry fatigue can kill you real quick. We really should be making enough money that we dont need a second job to make ends meet

 

Another point here that new people dont realize is flying really is WORK. Your not sitting in an airconditioned office behind a desk but you are sitting in an uncomfortanle seat, in draining heat, weating your ass off, unable to move and stetch while being pounded on by this vibrating machine thats trying to kill you. You cant go strecth or take a piss break whenever you want.

 

I dont mean to discourage anyone here and I do realize that fry posts lots of negatives about the industry but sometimes he hits the nail on the head. New people coming up, this is a great industry. I love flying and we need new pilots. Just dont get into this with blinders on looking at the glitz and glamour. This is still a job and in the end we all need to pay bills and look for retirement. I've been doing this for 13 years now and wouldnt change a thing. I just hope to pass some knowledge to give people a clearer outlook than what media and other things make it look like.

Edited April 27, 2007 by 500pilot

[fry]

So whats your point about not being able to succeed in the Heli industry???

 

Not really the point. It's a relatively small industry with some special requirements for those who would make a living in it (e.g., high training costs, a low paid apprenticeship, competition and business reasons that keep pay down, relocations, long-distance commutes, boom and bust history, etc). Actually, the temperment (for lack of a better descriptor) required for long term involvement is not unlike that required of a small business owner...principally, a high tolerance for uncertainty. And while many think they have that kind of personality, most people do not (or are not in a situation where they should take that kind of risk; e.g., they have a family).

 

I see a similarity between folks who blow their 401k trying to start a business and flight school students who borrow $70k.

 

I've got nothing against personal ambition but, they should recognize that they are making a big bet against long odds.

[jet trash]

I've got nothing against personal ambition but, they should recognize that they are making a big bet against long odds.

 

so tell us, all seeing, all knowing fry, just what are your qualifications? is it you were just one of those that lacks personal ambition?

 

you have the traits of someone who has failed, and the only way you can build yourself up is to tear others down for seeking the same goals.

[Mixmaster]

You have to to what makes you happy. If it is flying helicopters great. If it is washing cars great. Heck I met a guy once that loved to mine. you know under ground. He couldnt see doing anything else. He just loved it. Wouldnt stop talking about it. He didnt make a lot and was pasty white from never seeing the sun, but hey what ever floats you boat. I am sure Fry is just trying to make sure that all the newbees that come into this industry have as many facts as possible. But at the end of the day its up to each individule to mark their own decision and move on. Thats what makes this country so great. We each get to say waht we think, have our own opinion and do what we want (so long as it not against the law).

Just go do what ever makes you happy.

 

Fly safe

BEN

[mechanic]

Why is a 4/4 sched bad? The local ems works 4/3 I think?

 

I have workd 4/10 hr days, 5/12 hr days, and a weird sched of 6- 4/2, 2- 5/2, and then 1- 5/1, then start the sched over, with the state of Texas, that sched sucked to me..Working 2-10pm with a 1 hr drive to get to work. On 5.5/1.5- 8 hr days now..

 

 

 

Later

[klmmarine]

I work 28 days straight for 12 hours a day, away from home the entire time. Then I lose a day traveling back home get 12 days at home and then I lose another day returning to work. I have a wife and two kids at home, so to me a 4/4 schedule looks pretty damn good. For that matter so does a 4/3 or a 5/2. I make very good money but I am slowly losing touch with my family and watching my little girls grow up in pictures and phone conversations. I am looking forward to finishing my ppl so I can jump head first into the professional helicopter world.

 

I can appreciate people in the industry who try to give newcomers a real "no-punches pulled" look at what the industry is like. But it isn't bad. Most people in the nation would be happy to be able to make 40-50k per year, and won't ever get to experience the exhiliration of helicopter flight.

 

FRY- frankly I am tired of seeing your constant barrage of negative diatribes. If you really want to help someone, let us all know where you come from and what qualifies you to say anything to people trying to get started in this industry. If you have walked the walk and been burned fine let us all know so we can understand a little better. But until then do us a favor and stop with the negative talk.

 

-Keith

Edited April 28, 2007 by klmmarine

[67november]

FRY- frankly I am tired of seeing your constant barrage of negative diatribes. If you really want to help someone, let us all know where you come from and what qualifies you to say anything to people trying to get started in this industry. If you have walked the walk and been burned fine let us all know so we can understand a little better. But until then do us a favor and stop with the negative talk.

-Keith

 

 

I whole hardly agree with your statement. FRY your bantering is losing it's creditability.

[Gerhardt]

I don't see the problem with Fry posting his thoughts on here. It's an open forum and he isn't bashing anyone personally. I enjoy reading posts from everyone from people just starting to veterans with 20K hours. The beauty is that everyone has a different take on where they've been, where they are, and where they're going. Some here have been burned by flight schools, and it's good information to share. Some are burning out, or have burned out, in their job as pilots and that's good to know too. Fry may be a bit negative for some but at this point has not said anything unacceptable on this thread.

[Crusty Old Dude]

From a poster at JH in a thread, "Why they leaving [EMS]"

 

My hospital just changed contracts. The bennies are awful and the money is lowball. Again! I will not bad mouth my employeer, because he is just like the rest. I am tired of PD, DofOps, and chief pilots telling me they know the pay is low and they are working on it. But you never get more than 1-3% period,. because "We are not making Money" they say. Even though we make more flights every year Everywhere I look other professionals in other sectors with less experience and formal educations, continue to add benifits and their salrys are unbeliveabol. Three weeks ago I ran into a guy who I have gone to church with for three years now but did not know what he did. Come to find out he was one of the hospital computer network guys. He's 28 yrs old with a four year degree in his field and got his first job here right after college age 23. I asked him in confidence how much he was getting paid and I shared with him how much they were paying me to be SPIFR. I got 6 years here, flying as a civil pro for 11 years and former military with 21 years. Over 7800 hrs in various types, BS degree I make 62K he makes 73. It is time to leave EMS and never look back.

 

And from another (Lyn, the founder of the JH board):

 

EMS where I was = low pay (60's) and crappy schedule (4/4).

 

In 04 I left for a large pay increase and better schedule, just that simple. EMS operators are too cheap to offer anything attractive and most of us are desparate enough to keep taking it.

Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself (current IT super-weenie making that much in flyover ville and hating it too).

[Crusty Old Dude]

But money isn't everything. I make 88K a year with the federal govt. as an IT Specialist but want to get out so bad that I'm willing to take a HUGE paycut to do something that I love. I never liked computers but thought money was everything so this is what I did. Have been doing it for 14 years and can't wait to get out. I wish I knew then what I know now that money really means nothing if your hating your job. Plus, the more money you make the more money you spend. I still live pretty much paycheck to paycheck just like almost every single other person I know here in the DC area. And we all make good money....

 

Plus think of this. The poster that you quoted here works a 4/4 schedule for 60k a year. I work 5/2 for 88k a year. He works about 182 days a year where I work 234. I'm paid for 260, but I have 15 days vacation and 11 holidays. So I physically only work 234. So I physically work 23% more than he does. For pay I get 27% more pay. So for the amount worked, I really only make 4% more than he does. He has a better chance to get a second job than I do and make more money which would close that gap even more, possibly put the money in his favor.... It's all how you look at it.

 

I hope I will one day be making low 60's doing something I love. Beats the hell out of high 80's doing something I hate.

OOOPS..I meant Amen to THIS post.

 

Repeat msg:

 

Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself (current IT super-weenie making that much in flyover ville and hating it too).

 

(strike prior Amen).

[Crusty Old Dude]

I sympathize and I'm sorry to see an experienced professional leave the field. EMS and training is where that experience can be most broadly shared- and flight instruction definitely sucks compared to EMS.

I see the "job" improving gradually with many forces driving it:

AMC is organized, a union company;

There is inarguably fewer guys coming to EMS with multiples of thousands of hours and decades of experience;

The industry is being forced to acknowledge some very serious issues with commonly accepted practices;

4&4 is a really bad schedule among many crappy schedules. AMC's contract denies the company the right to FORCE schedules on pilots.

 

I'll continue the job until it's not personally worth it any more. I would recommend that nobody burns any bridges, I think the rate of improvement for pilots, especially for professional EMSers, will increase rapidly in the next few years. There's lots of money being made by some companies, and the rest will adapt or succumb.

and I have to ask...IS EMS flying the only rotor-wing flying out there? Same with P.D.? Yes, these are both cheap and low-ball agencies and everyone knows it. What kind of P.D. thinks that a pilot will be willing to join their force, be a beat cop for six months, and THEN apply for a rotor job? It's just not that realistic. Kind of like the Army "enlist now, apply W.O. later". Sorry, folks...I was active duty for more than a decade, and I'll tell you that it's about a 50/50. Not impossible, but not bankable and for the price of being a grunt, it's a high price indeed.

 

So that all being said, aren't there plenty of helo jobs that don't involve EMS work? how about all of those "mighty fine" long-line, SAR, and utility jobs out there? Sounds like if you can wedge your boot in the door, get some Huey and/or long-line time and some turbine then you could do all kinds of cool stuff to me. Take that from a guy who hasn't weighed less than 200 since the age of 19 and it makes those "low and slow" jobs look mighty tasty.

[coanda]

it's funny how every thread fry posts on or starts becomes about fry. he/she'll never reveal him/herself, he/she knows he/she's negative, he/she knows your sick of him/her. we all know the definition of the word "forum", so no need to educate. Just continue to post about the helicopter industry, he/she's not going anywhere and his/her attitude isn't going to change.

 

edit: let me clear things up before the fire bombs. I'm not taking sides. I just think it gets you nowhere littering your otherwise informative response with his or her name.

Edited May 15, 2007 by coanda

[jet trash]

it's funny how every thread fry posts on or starts becomes about fry. he/she'll never reveal him/herself, he/she knows he/she's negative, he/she knows your sick of him/her. we all know the definition of the word "forum", so no need to educate. Just continue to post about the helicopter industry, he/she's not going anywhere and his/her attitude isn't going to change.

 

edit: let me clear things up before the fire bombs. I'm not taking sides. I just think it gets you nowhere littering your otherwise informative response with his or her name.

 

look at it this way.....every internet forum has a "troll". that's all fry is, a baiting troll.

[palmfish]

and I have to ask...IS EMS flying the only rotor-wing flying out there? Same with P.D.? Yes, these are both cheap and low-ball agencies and everyone knows it. What kind of P.D. thinks that a pilot will be willing to join their force, be a beat cop for six months, and THEN apply for a rotor job? It's just not that realistic. Kind of like the Army "enlist now, apply W.O. later". Sorry, folks...I was active duty for more than a decade, and I'll tell you that it's about a 50/50. Not impossible, but not bankable and for the price of being a grunt, it's a high price indeed.

 

So that all being said, aren't there plenty of helo jobs that don't involve EMS work? how about all of those "mighty fine" long-line, SAR, and utility jobs out there? Sounds like if you can wedge your boot in the door, get some Huey and/or long-line time and some turbine then you could do all kinds of cool stuff to me. Take that from a guy who hasn't weighed less than 200 since the age of 19 and it makes those "low and slow" jobs look mighty tasty.

 

1. I hate to break this to you Crusty, but sworn LE pilots make a good living (many earn a solid 6-figure salary on top of generally excellent benefit/retirement packages).

 

2. Who's to blame when a cop on the street gets ambushed and killed because the pilot overhead didn't have sufficient LE experience to recognize a counter-surveillance threat? And who better than a pilot with "street cop" knowledge of the streets to know all the back-alleys and hidey-holes when ground units are pursuing a dangerous felon? A chimpanzee can learn to fly a helicopter, but it takes a trained LE eye (and a good dose of cop "spidey sense") to spot the often hidden threats lurking in the shadows - threats that only an experienced cop would recognize.

 

3. Re: Army flight training. 50/50 is pretty good odds - it ensures a higher quality applicant and lowers the washout rate. Really, what is good in life that doesn't need to be earned - that doesn't involve some risk? The Army isn't going to just hand out the finest RW training and most exciting job in the world just because you honored the recruiting office with a visit. If you're going to fly an Apache or Chinook in combat, you first have to prove you're worthy.

 

Just the $0.02 of an Army trained LE pilot...

Edited May 16, 2007 by palmfish

[Crusty Old Dude]

1. I hate to break this to you Crusty, but sworn LE pilots make a good living (many earn a solid 6-figure salary on top of generally excellent benefit/retirement packages).

 

2. Who's to blame when a cop on the street gets ambushed and killed because the pilot overhead didn't have sufficient LE experience to recognize a counter-surveillance threat? And who better than a pilot with "street cop" knowledge of the streets to know all the back-alleys and hidey-holes when ground units are pursuing a dangerous felon? A chimpanzee can learn to fly a helicopter, but it takes a trained LE eye (and a good dose of cop "spidey sense") to spot the often hidden threats lurking in the shadows - threats that only an experienced cop would recognize.

 

3. Re: Army flight training. 50/50 is pretty good odds - it ensures a higher quality applicant and lowers the washout rate. Really, what is good in life that doesn't need to be earned - that doesn't involve some risk? The Army isn't going to just hand out the finest RW training and most exciting job in the world just because you honored the recruiting office with a visit. If you're going to fly an Apache or Chinook in combat, you first have to prove you're worthy.

 

Just the $0.02 of an Army trained LE pilot...

There was no disrespect...just musing that EMS, LE and such aren't the only flying jobs out there. I think a lot of potential pilots out there get all hung up on money. I've certainly given LE flying serious thought, but feel that my age may be a sticking point (many LE orgs nowadays have a max age limit). Yes, pay and benefits, as well as LE mission are there in spades...no doubt at all.

 

I think the ultimate point I was throwing out there is that flying rotor has many, many avenues besides the obvious and most discussed. I'm trying to get some to stop walking around with blinders on, or just making excuses for not doing something that they know they'd love. I was active duty for a decade plus, and did in fact apply for WO. My eyes did me in (instant DQ before the days of laser). For an outsider, especially one engaged in flight training out of pocket, I merely throw out the facts that there is no "just getting into" military aviation. This is for the rotor wing pilot who is laying out $20-50K plus in personal training who thinks that after 3-6 months' of enlistment that they'll just segway straight into military rotor wing. It just doesn't always go down that way. That was me helping to enlighten some, while also trying to dispel excuses (plus getting sick of a particular individual's negative posts).

 

Thanks for the insight, seriously. I'm one of those who may actually give LE flying some serious thought, but others may be either held back by P.D. service, weight, or other such thing.

[palmfish]

There was no disrespect...just musing that EMS, LE and such aren't the only flying jobs out there. I think a lot of potential pilots out there get all hung up on money. I've certainly given LE flying serious thought, but feel that my age may be a sticking point (many LE orgs nowadays have a max age limit). Yes, pay and benefits, as well as LE mission are there in spades...no doubt at all.

 

I think the ultimate point I was throwing out there is that flying rotor has many, many avenues besides the obvious and most discussed. I'm trying to get some to stop walking around with blinders on, or just making excuses for not doing something that they know they'd love. I was active duty for a decade plus, and did in fact apply for WO. My eyes did me in (instant DQ before the days of laser). For an outsider, especially one engaged in flight training out of pocket, I merely throw out the facts that there is no "just getting into" military aviation. This is for the rotor wing pilot who is laying out $20-50K plus in personal training who thinks that after 3-6 months' of enlistment that they'll just segway straight into military rotor wing. It just doesn't always go down that way. That was me helping to enlighten some, while also trying to dispel excuses (plus getting sick of a particular individual's negative posts).

 

Thanks for the insight, seriously. I'm one of those who may actually give LE flying some serious thought, but others may be either held back by P.D. service, weight, or other such thing.

 

Well said. I'm sorry if I sounded a little harsh, I didn't mean it that way. I have a lot of respect for anyone who has the drive and determination to commit to such a rigorous and expensive training program on their own, with no guarantee of employment at the end of it all. I just wanted to make it clear that, in my opinion, LE aviation is different from most other types of flying in that, the pilot truly needs to be a master of two career fields - law enforcement and aviation.

 

It reminds me of my first military assignment after flight school as an air cavalry scout platoon leader. Cavalry scout pilots are somewhat similar in that they need to be proficient as combat pilots, but also need to know the ground maneuver (armor) tactics intimately.

 

It does appear that RW aviation is a growing field, with many more opportunities for employment than there were when I went through flight school (1988). It's a great career for the right person, and it's great to see the field expanding - it benefits everyone.