Please help me with this student.

[Azhigher]

If it's not too late, one more thing that might help is to try her use a grip with the thumb pointing straight up, like she was going to hit the comm/nav button on top of the cyclic. This will take away the hand's ability to really squeeze the cyclic and help her make smaller, more precise controls.

 

At least that worked wonders for me once my instructor made me do it twice...

 

Let us know what becomes of her!

[DynamicallyUnstable]

Thanks everyone for all the input! We did a lot of low level flying and I would gradually increase our altitudes and she did pretty good. It was over a couple of flights but she became more comfortable with it for sure. We also have been working on death grip and I constantly remind her to loosen up. I think that a big reason for the death grip was her intimidation of the cyclic. She is becoming more comfortable with the cyclic and it shows in her flying.

She is doing a lot better and i will keep eveyone informed of her progress!

Thanks everybody for the help!

[dogdaddy]

I think this thread will help me as I start helicopter training. When I took fixed-wing training I was so scared and had the death grip, to the point where I was not learning. Even my instructor got to a point where he said he could not do anything more with me. Since then I've tried other types of flying experiences, just to be able to spend time up in the sky without the stress of also trying to learn. For example I paid someone to take me up in his aerobatic plane. That was very scarey but the fact that I "survived" it made me less afraid to be in a Cessna.

I think the biggest part of my fear was, not so much the fact of being so high up, but rather the "responsibility" of flying the aircraft. I was afraid that making the least little mistake could cause a crash. By now I've ridden as a passenger many times in different types of aircraft, and have not been nervous. I also want to try other things such as hot air balloons, just to get accustomed to the sensations of being up there.

[A Ike]

Had to eventually sneek my first post in somewhere, heres my thoughts on everything, tell your student to go skydiving. Thats way more intense and much higher than a few thousand feet agl when flying a bunch of moving metal parts After that, flying a helicopter will be a peaceful event. Seriously though, the reality is that some people take more time adjusting to new surroundings. Although there does come a point (and someone already brought this up and I forget who) when who is really benefiting from a student that cannot over come a fear like this. Sure, you benefit and so does the school, you both get paid. However, the thing I think is most important is that if the fear doesn't go away within a reasonable amount of time, is the student going to benefit? Sure they maybe able to push through get their license but what happens when they are in the air on their own and that fear resurfaces and there is no one in the aircraft that can take control. I think its a fine line to walk but telling a student that flying may not be for them may ultimately save lives. However, I'd say wait it out for a little bit and accomodate the student, afterall students do weird things. I know I did.

[Strikefinder]

Validating fears can often make a student more comfortable with them. Telling a student that they shouldn't be afraid of heights is counter-productive--it makes them feel like there is something wrong with them as an individual and that they aren't "cut out" to be a pilot as a result of it. Though this student may or may not finish her rating, it shouldn't be because of a concern for her safety at height. I'm deathly afraid of heights, and I think most people are (I'm also claustrophobic and hate traveling, which makes my airline career seem somewhat stupid, in hindsight!). When I was instructing, I would always try to explain that being afraid of heights is a natural human instinct, and you should never aim to completely conquer it, since a little fear will remind us of our mortality when we make decisions while flying. I always end up jumping into the "no old bold pilot" cliches at that point.

 

I suspect that what is really at issue here is a feeling of being out of control. I can't imagine what I would have been like to fly helicopters before fixed wing, because I think I would have been terrified of all the things going on. It seems like so much is happening at the same time, and so you tend to tense up, which makes things more out of control, which makes you tense up more, etc. I expected this going into helicopter training, so I think I had an easier time with it, but your student may feel like she's going to lose control of the aircraft at any given moment, which then triggers the realization of how high you are, and the concern about what happens when you fall out of the sky at that height. I would focus on making her understand that your role is to give her a playground to experiment in and that she will not lose control of the aircraft on your watch. This may give her the comfort to experiment with her grip on the cyclic more calmly or focus on flying the aircraft rather than what could happen if she makes a mistake--you've told her she's going to make mistakes, and you're going to be her safety net. This little pep talk has worked well for me in the past.

 

Though I'm a newbie rotorhead, I can certainly attest to having the death grip for several hours, and I still regress from time to time when things get hairy. 10 hours isn't a lot of time, and though money is probably not limitless and I know the pressure to "get done", I wouldn't let that discourage her. When I was teaching in fixed wing and a student would get discouraged because they landed poorly, I would have them total up their landings up until that point (typically at about 50 or less), and then I'd get out my logbook and show them the 4 or 5 thousand landings I had, and then tell them, "If you think I did this any better than you did with 50 landings, you're crazy." It's not to brag, but to point out that there is no substitute for experience, and hour for hour I'm one of the slowest people around. But if you keep at it, sooner or later it will all come together (should be any day now for me! )

Edited June 20, 2007 by Strikefinder

[Shawn Adams]

My reasoning (and I fly gyrocopters and not helicopters) is, in order to let the rotors tell me what's going on, I keep a fairly loose grip on the cyclic. That way I can "feel" the blades better. I was actually taught that way. Although, "feeling" the blades may not be as important in a powered rotor. But helping the student to understand why the death-grip is not a great thing will keep them thinking about it, rather than just letting it happen without a conscious thought.

 

I came from a fixed wing background and when a gust hits, you instinctively correct for it, where in the gyro, I was instructed to just ride it through.. Now, I just do it, because it was impressed early on.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Shawn Adams

[Cyrak]

This was a very interesting thread for me to read. I have not started my lessons yet, as I have not found the money, but I have been up on a demo flight. Before I went, I was worried that I would have a fear of it, and that I might have to give up on my dream - I am deathly afraid of carnival rides, and I think I might have a fear of heights to some degree. However, I have always LOVED flying in planes - I love the feeling when you take off, and when you land, and I could never have enough dreams where I was flying.

 

It turned out that I was a little freaked out at first, but for the most part, it reminded me of those flying dreams, and I LOVED it! I think my biggest fear was that it seemed very unstable, and that the slightest over correction might cause it to go irreparably out of control. When the instructor let me have a little control, I felt like if I screwed up, they wouldn't be able to fix what I had done, and it would quickly become like the carnival rides I dread. However, even with the rides, it was never how high I was that scared me, or that I thought I was going to die, just that I intensely disliked the feeling of being out of control and/or losing my equilibrium. I know that it is probably not as easy as it seems to lose control of the aircraft, but it was my first helicopter flight, after all.

 

Since then, I have found myself in several situations on the ground where I realized that I do have some fear of heights, but the feeling is much different. When I am on a ladder, or the edge of a roof, or near an attic trapdoor, my fear is that I will slip or trip or otherwise lose my balance, and that the fall will not be pleasant - my mind is quite good at imagining all the broken bones that might result. I believe this is perhaps not so much a fear of heights as a fear of falling in general, since I am sometimes just as scared walking down stairs, or on ice, or a gravel hillside.

 

I agree with Fastlane, that there seems to be a disconnect there, at least for me - that if I felt more comfortable with the controls, and knew that one little slip wasn't going to result in catastrophe, the height would not bother me at all. I just don't think my mind can comprehend any height that isn't directly connected to the ground, especially since the resulting injuries from a crash are definitely beyond my ability to imagine! I think my issues might come at the point where instead of trying to retain control, you need to intentionally LOSE control, and then learn to get it back. I'm not sure how I will deal with that "out of control" feeling. I guess I will just have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

Thanks to all of you for your advice - everyone is so helpful and supportive on this forum! I can't wait until I start flying and can come to you with my own questions and problems! Until then, live the dream for me!

[Mike Murphy]

All of my time is in helos with a conventional cyclic, but I find that resting my arm on my leg or kneeboard really helps. You use more wrist and less arm. Your student should grip the cyclic with her fingers, not her hand to prevent squeezing all the black out of the cyclic. Hope she's coming along well.

[DynamicallyUnstable]

Just a quick update...

She has been gone for about a month now, she had to go back to work in Switzerland but LOVES to fly. She got over her fear of heights 100%, most of the fear of the cyclic, and did really well flying last we went out. It took some time to conquer her demons but we were both determined, and never gave up. One of our last flights were were cruising about 3000'agl and I looked at her, as relaxed as she seemed to be, and said "looks like someone is over her fear of heights," she smiled and I said, "ok, lets get out of fixed wing country now," closed the throttle, lowered collective and showed her just how long we had to pick a spot to land in an auto at that altitude.

She is planning to come back as soon as she can to earn her PPL.

[zemogman]

Good to hear...didn't think she would get over it...