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[Voluptuary5]

And we wonder why salaries are low. Any pilot that does this is a shame to the industry. As a commercial pilot you are a proffesional and should act like one. Saying you'll fly for free is not the sign of a proffesional pilot, rather someone who doesnt have much ethical standards.

 

500,

 

I see your point but with no disrespect, I have to disagree. In effect, isn’t Klas is being paid between $1100 and $1850 an hour for his piloting services (prices quoted earlier in this post to rent a Huey per hour. I don’t imagine pilots normally make $1000’s/hour to fly fires)? Klas gets some time in type and Bossman gets a pilot. This sounds like a win-win for both of ‘em.

 

That’s called the “barter system” and were I grew up, it’s a valid form of payment…

 

-V5

[fatnlazy]

500,

 

I see your point but with no disrespect, I have to disagree. In effect, isn’t Klas is being paid between $1100 and $1850 an hour for his piloting services (prices quoted earlier in this post to rent a Huey per hour. I don’t imagine pilots normally make $1000’s/hour to fly fires)? Klas gets some time in type and Bossman gets a pilot. This sounds like a win-win for both of ‘em.

 

That’s called the “barter system†and were I grew up, it’s a valid form of payment…

 

-V5

 

Those weren't cost per hour to rent a huey those were cost per hour for our services, and fire pilots usually get a daily around $300.00 Plus between $25.00 and $150.00 an hr for hrs flown daily, depending on experience and/or skill level.

Edited June 29, 2007 by fatnlazy

[500pilot]

500,

 

I see your point but with no disrespect, I have to disagree. In effect, isn’t Klas is being paid between $1100 and $1850 an hour for his piloting services (prices quoted earlier in this post to rent a Huey per hour. I don’t imagine pilots normally make $1000’s/hour to fly fires)? Klas gets some time in type and Bossman gets a pilot. This sounds like a win-win for both of ‘em.

 

That’s called the “barter system” and were I grew up, it’s a valid form of payment…

 

-V5

 

Actually Klas isnt getting 1100-1850 an hour for the Huey. They Huey is VERY expensive to operate and takes lots of maintenance. Also you have to figure in other factors such as insurance, hanger, landing fees etc. Remember, whther or not the Huey turns a blade they still have a bank note due or an insurance payment to make. The money he is getting per hour barely covers that with little set aside for salary and profit. On top of this you still have to pay pilots/mechanics/drivers etc. Operating a helicopter and figuring what to charge hourly and still make a profit is a razor thin edge. All it takes is one unscheduled part to break and the years profit margin goes out the door.

 

If a pilot "whores" themselves out and works for free all he/she is doing is hurting themselves and everyone else in the future. What happens when the pilot feels like they have "learned" enough and have to pay the bills? That free work they have been giving an employer now comes at a price. The employer will say goodbye and you will be back where you started. Even if you did this for several years and then think you have should now be paid do you honestly think the employer will pay you? They will can you in a heart beat. 99% of the aircraft out there do not require two pilots. Besides doing external load work is one of the most challenging aspects of flying there is and if all youve done is basically sat there monitoring a stanby loadmeter, you really have not developed the usefull skills necesarry to be a pilot.

 

This also goes to say that trading work for time is actually ILLEGAL in the US. Yeah, it done all the time but by doing this you now are an employee and the employer is reqiured to pay taxes/benefits/SS/etc. If you get hurt you can now sue him. Do you think someone wants to take that risk. Also what does that show about your integrity as a person? If your willing to work for free and basically bend over what also will you do to get some flight time? Do you really have the flight time your logbook says or did you parker pen a couple hours so you can just get that little extra to get a job.

 

These are just some of the many things an employer will see if you are willing to work for free.

Just as we all want an honest/trustworthy employer, companies are also looking for an honest hardworking employee that is a professional at what he/she does. They usually pay a salary based on your experience and qualifications and many will just throw those looking to trade time for work resumes right into the circular file.

 

I might sound like a grumpy old guy for saying all this (actually I'm only 32) but I've been flying along time and have seen alot of different things in this industry. I hate it when people try to think there is an easy way to do things. We all pretty much go the same route and have to pay our dues. Whether it is as an instructor or flying second as a logging pilot at all times we are profesionall pilots. Whoring ourselves out for free is the what a prostitue does. Always act like a profesionall and you will be treated like one.

 

One other thing I would like to point out. I have always and will always give out a second seat to pilots if I have one available. I was helped out when I was coming up and have always tried to return the favor to other aspiring pilots that are coming through the ranks trying to get turbine time. I just hate to see people say they will work for free to get some time.

[Voluptuary5]

I have always and will always give out a second seat to pilots if I have one available. I was helped out when I was coming up and have always tried to return the favor to other aspiring pilots that are coming through the ranks trying to get turbine time. I just hate to see people say they will work for free to get some time.

 

500,

 

You do sound like a grumpy old man but you make valid points. But let me ask you this, what is the difference with your quote above and the example in this thread?

 

-V5

[Witch]

One other thing I would like to point out. I have always and will always give out a second seat to pilots if I have one available. I was helped out when I was coming up and have always tried to return the favor to other aspiring pilots that are coming through the ranks trying to get turbine time.

 

I guess it's how one looks at it. If you have an empty seat, and someone wants to fill it at no cost to you, then that's a good thing. However, if one says they'll take an empty seat at no cost to you and you have one, that's a bad thing.

 

Now, if someone says they'll pay for an empty seat, thats a really bad thing.

 

I'm thinking that the concept is getting misunderstood here somewhere. 500, you say you'll give an empty seat for free. Great. I hope I may get to fill that seat someday. However, Volition is offering to fill a vacant seat for Bossman if he has one. It sounds basically the same. You both have empty seats and there're pilots willing to fill them at no cost to either of you. Kinda like volunteering, the work people do for no compensation to better the community. That's all I'll say.

 

Now then, if it's where a pilot is offering to pay for a flight-like a ferry, or Boatpix-, then I too become a little miffed. Granted, they may have advantages for some, but to pay to work?

 

One other thing that comes to mind. It may be a barter, but to me, this is a transaction of not only services, but of free will. Bossman and Volition have made a contract-of their own free will-that is fair and satisfies both parties. Others may feel this is "whoring" themselves. On the contrary, "whoring" may be considered a selling of services, such as working at General Motors for $30/hr. Might you be calling that assembler a "whore"?

 

I realize "whore" is meant to be derogatory. But it's the same principle: one offers one thing in exchange for something from someone else. It is the foundation of business, this exchange. I want something from you, and I'm willing to give you something in return. I want a seat, and you want a pilot. It seems like a fair trade to me. If not, then either can terminate the contract.

 

If you would like to read some neat articles about the concept of free trade, I can direct you, or others, to a couple of websites.

 

Egads! And I just got done with "The Fountainhead".

 

Later

[FinR]

C'mon people, i think you are missing something here. I assume 500pilot, as well as myself with a short comment, were not commenting Klas's or Bossman's postings. I quess Klas has never offered to work for free in this thread, Bossman offered him to get some fire-time at the same time hi goes to Marpat to get the rating (self paid, i assume). I would take that offer as "extra training" offered to Klas with his type conversion. That how it sounded to me, but maybe Bossman can explain his offer abit more closely to all of us (tough it's between Klas and Bossman).

 

The posting that made me sick is this, written by a member Volition:

Posted Yesterday, 15:00

I'll get the Huey rating...If you can offer me co-jo job for a few hundred hours! (At no cost to you) Offering my service as a co-pilot for free to get SIC hours.

That's the one that 500pilot and myself were originally commenting, check the quotes. And I couldn't agree more with you 500pilot. Like i said, posts like that just make me feel sick. Professionals, who are offering to work for free, are scumbags of the whole community of professional helicopter pilots, around the world. Period.

[500pilot]

Giving an empty seat away for free so you can help a guy out is one thing but working for free is another. Someone volunteering to work for free just to get time is what I dont like. Bossman is doing a great thing in helping people out with time but saying that I'll be a co-jo for swveral hundred hours if you train me in a Huey is not what being a professional pilot is about. If you volunteer for this, once you get some experience and want to get paid how much do you think you are worth? In reality you are worth nothing to the employer. They just dump you and go find someone else that will do it for free. If you want to work and make money an employer will now say this guy is desperate for work since they have done this for free before and lowball you with the pay. There are plenty of jobs for low time guys out there that pay. Usually that means flight instruction but a job is a job.

 

Right now many new pilots looks at the turbine field and see all this glamour involved with the big iron. Yes, it a great job to fly these aircraft but in the end it i still a job. At the end of the month you still have to pay the mortgage and feed the family. By volenteering to work for free you are keeping the wages down since an employer knows that there is always a hungry pilot right behind you just intching at the belt to do what your doing. After someone has built up experience and feels like they deserved to be paid for it do you really think they will pay you what you are worth if someone is behind you volennteering to do it for free?

 

When I offer to give a seat away because I have to ferry an aircraft that is not going to change someone in getting a job. Usually it just allows that person to get a little turbine experience and usually helps someone working towards a rating get a few hours for free.

Edited June 29, 2007 by 500pilot

[500pilot]

C'mon people, i think you are missing something here. I assume 500pilot, as well as myself with a short comment, were not commenting Klas's or Bossman's postings. I quess Klas has never offered to work for free in this thread, Bossman offered him to get some fire-time at the same time hi goes to Marpat to get the rating (self paid, i assume). I would take that offer as "extra training" offered to Klas with his type conversion. That how it sounded to me, but maybe Bossman can explain his offer abit more closely to all of us (tough it's between Klas and Bossman).

 

The posting that made me sick is this, written by a member Volition:

 

That's the one that 500pilot and myself were originally commenting, check the quotes. And I couldn't agree more with you 500pilot. Like i said, posts like that just make me feel sick. Professionals, who are offering to work for free, are scumbags of the whole community of professional helicopter pilots, around the world. Period.

 

 

Thank you, I wasnt quoting on Bossman or Klas but this comment by Volition. I think what Bossman is offering is great and at a great price. I wish there were more people like Bossman out there helping new guys out and offering real world experience. ANd Bossman if I make it out your way I'd love to see your operation and have a chat with you some day. Glad to see your back and running after the accident.

[500E]

500, you need to wash your mouth out with soap. Huey.

bossman

 

So i am dislexic never find time to visit you when in The good old USA

[volition]

Let me try again...Ok, I'll go to boatpix, pay 100$+fuel, and work 12 hour days in the Florida sun, at super low speed, low altitudes, pay for food, lodging, plane ticket, and by the time I make 100 hours, I'm about 15k in the red. Let's see here; Volunteer to get hours as a SIC, pay my food, lodging, etc., and be down 5k. Whoring, a whore gets paid, and a good one probably makes more money then you! Plus, I would be paying for the Huey rating. So that's even more in the red. I guess when you got your license, you came out of it owing nothing right. You paid for education, I'm offering to do the same.

[500E]

A fair proportion of posts are about getting a JOB!.

How do we get to the hours required for turbine, to fly Pax, turbine time etc, It costs.

So if bossman will give someone a seat and has to train them + insure, it costs, or he gets a person fully up to speed with the Huey and from day 1 the person is expected to preform to be paid.

So in giving a person with a rating or requiring rating ( unknown hours and experience)a seat could mean be a fair time before they are competent at the tasks required.

bossman could pay the pilot and then collect it all back in on the job training charges

I can see both sides of this post but to get the hours ???

bossman Huey correctly this time

[500pilot]

A fair proportion of posts are about getting a JOB!.

How do we get to the hours required for turbine, to fly Pax, turbine time etc, It costs.

So if bossman will give someone a seat and has to train them + insure, it costs, or he gets a person fully up to speed with the Huey and from day 1 the person is expected to preform to be paid.

So in giving a person with a rating or requiring rating ( unknown hours and experience)a seat could mean be a fair time before they are competent at the tasks required.

bossman could pay the pilot and then collect it all back in on the job training charges

I can see both sides of this post but to get the hours ???

bossman Huey correctly this time

 

I think lots of people think there is an easy way out to get hours. They dont want to instruct and who can blame them. Pay is crap, aircraft are usually crap and work is hard and long. People look for an easy way out and will volunteer to fly for free just to be in a turbine. The thing is if you work hard

within a year you will have a thousand hours and can qualify for a turbine job. Hell, you dont even need a thousand hours these days. And that experience as you get as an instructor is invaluable. You dont even need to teach to get those hours as there are quite a few tour operators flying 44s that only require 200hrs. As for needing turbine time that is BS. Any employer will transition you into a turbine once you meet thier requirements. We all have to pay our dues and trying to find a shortcut wont get you far.

 

 

 

Another point to make is there is a HUGE difference between a 1000 hr pilot and a 500 hr pilot. Most 500 hour pilots are still wet behind the ears and learning the ropes. Now if you take a pilot that has been instructing for 500 hours and put them up against someone who has rode shotgun for 500 hours again you will see a huge difference in experience. The 500hr instructor has at least been flying or more accuratelly trying to prevent a crash while the 500hr cojo has really done nothing more than let the PIC know what his torque is reading because there is no way they are going to let a cojo sling. (I am refering to a external load co-pilot here rather than someone who might work in the gulf.) There is no way an employer will train someone with 200hrs and let them lose on sling flying a million dollar Huey just because they work for free. There is just way to much risk. There is also a minimum flight time required from OAS before you can even work fighting fires by yourself. Also an employer is REQUIRED to give you training under 135 Regardless of your experience. How many hours do you think it will take to get someone brand new up to speed compared to a pilot with a 1000hrs?

 

One more thing to mention is you cannot even work as a co-pilot flying on a 135 cert until you have 500 hours. If someone is that desperate for hours that they need to fly for free they should have never even gotten a commercial cert. All you do is take away a job from someone that has earned the right to be paid for thier hard work and experience.

[bossman]

I think lots of people think there is an easy way out to get hours. They dont want to instruct and who can blame them. Pay is crap, aircraft are usually crap and work is hard and long. People look for an easy way out and will volunteer to fly for free just to be in a turbine. The thing is if you work hard

within a year you will have a thousand hours and can qualify for a turbine job. Hell, you dont even need a thousand hours these days. And that experience as you get as an instructor is invaluable. You dont even need to teach to get those hours as there are quite a few tour operators flying 44s that only require 200hrs. As for needing turbine time that is BS. Any employer will transition you into a turbine once you meet thier requirements. We all have to pay our dues and trying to find a shortcut wont get you far.

Another point to make is there is a HUGE difference between a 1000 hr pilot and a 500 hr pilot. Most 500 hour pilots are still wet behind the ears and learning the ropes. Now if you take a pilot that has been instructing for 500 hours and put them up against someone who has rode shotgun for 500 hours again you will see a huge difference in experience. The 500hr instructor has at least been flying or more accuratelly trying to prevent a crash while the 500hr cojo has really done nothing more than let the PIC know what his torque is reading because there is no way they are going to let a cojo sling. (I am refering to a external load co-pilot here rather than someone who might work in the gulf.) There is no way an employer will train someone with 200hrs and let them lose on sling flying a million dollar Huey just because they work for free. There is just way to much risk. There is also a minimum flight time required from OAS before you can even work fighting fires by yourself. Also an employer is REQUIRED to give you training under 135 Regardless of your experience. How many hours do you think it will take to get someone brand new up to speed compared to a pilot with a 1000hrs?

 

One more thing to mention is you cannot even work as a co-pilot flying on a 135 cert until you have 500 hours. If someone is that desperate for hours that they need to fly for free they should have never even gotten a commercial cert. All you do is take away a job from someone that has earned the right to be paid for thier hard work and experience.

500pilot,

Here goes. First of all from your posts I take it you do not like employers. You talk down about employers like they are all out there trying to get your precious time for nothing. I've been an employer for 35 years, I've seen a lot of people come and go, a few have been here a long time. Each person does what is right for themselves or their company. The pilot knows what he or she needs to survive and further their careers. The company knows what they need to turn a little profit and stay alive. If in the meantime both come to an agreement that helps them both, so be it. I myself believe that a person should be paid for their services. Yes, I will take money for training if that is what the person is here for. I will let someone fly for free whenever I can. We go to the Homer Bell fly in every year with at least 3 ships and try to fill every seat at no charge to anyone.

Your comment about turbine time being BS is totally wrong. You need all the turbine time you can get, in as many different aircraft as you can manage. Yes, those mean old employers will transition to turbine, but the person that comes to me with 300 hours of turbine already will be doing the job a lot faster than the Robby pilot with 500 hours. The person that has been doing pipeline will be doing the job faster than the person that has nothing but instructor time.

We let our #2's do a lot of flying. As long as the sling job is not in a heavily conjested area the new guy does all the work. It's how you learn. As long as the IP is setting in the other seat, I see nothing wrong with letting the newbie do the work. We do not work fires alone. We are not subject to OAS because our contract is a state contract. We only do the fire fighting for the entire state of West Virginia and we get to stay home. We are not 135. So you see, this lets us pretty much do things the way we want.

So, before talking down about an employer or a person for an agreement that is mutually beneficial to both parties, find out the facts (if they want to tell you) they may just say "IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS".

Again, I think a person deserves to be paid for their work. I think a person has to pay for most of their training. I think a person needs all the turbine time they can manage, in as many different aircraft as they strap on. I think a person should take every opportunity, that presents itself, to fly. I think we should all try to give the young guys a start and a way to go. I think we all need to offer that empty seat whenever we can. Not just to rated pilots, but to everyone. I've flown many an hour with a person sitting in the other seat trying to hold altitude and heading for the first time. This is how we keep aviation going. I'm not just talking commercial stuff, I mean aviation in general. With prices climbing across the board it's getting hard for the average person to own and operate a fixed wing or a helicopter. So share the passion and the knowledge. Let the new guy fly.

This is how one mean old employer feels.

bossman

[500pilot]

500pilot,

Here goes. First of all from your posts I take it you do not like employers. You talk down about employers like they are all out there trying to get your precious time for nothing. I've been an employer for 35 years, I've seen a lot of people come and go, a few have been here a long time. Each person does what is right for themselves or their company. The pilot knows what he or she needs to survive and further their careers. The company knows what they need to turn a little profit and stay alive. If in the meantime both come to an agreement that helps them both, so be it. I myself believe that a person should be paid for their services. Yes, I will take money for training if that is what the person is here for. I will let someone fly for free whenever I can. We go to the Homer Bell fly in every year with at least 3 ships and try to fill every seat at no charge to anyone.

Your comment about turbine time being BS is totally wrong. You need all the turbine time you can get, in as many different aircraft as you can manage. Yes, those mean old employers will transition to turbine, but the person that comes to me with 300 hours of turbine already will be doing the job a lot faster than the Robby pilot with 500 hours. The person that has been doing pipeline will be doing the job faster than the person that has nothing but instructor time.

We let our #2's do a lot of flying. As long as the sling job is not in a heavily conjested area the new guy does all the work. It's how you learn. As long as the IP is setting in the other seat, I see nothing wrong with letting the newbie do the work. We do not work fires alone. We are not subject to OAS because our contract is a state contract. We only do the fire fighting for the entire state of West Virginia and we get to stay home. We are not 135. So you see, this lets us pretty much do things the way we want.

So, before talking down about an employer or a person for an agreement that is mutually beneficial to both parties, find out the facts (if they want to tell you) they may just say "IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS".

Again, I think a person deserves to be paid for their work. I think a person has to pay for most of their training. I think a person needs all the turbine time they can manage, in as many different aircraft as they strap on. I think a person should take every opportunity, that presents itself, to fly. I think we should all try to give the young guys a start and a way to go. I think we all need to offer that empty seat whenever we can. Not just to rated pilots, but to everyone. I've flown many an hour with a person sitting in the other seat trying to hold altitude and heading for the first time. This is how we keep aviation going. I'm not just talking commercial stuff, I mean aviation in general. With prices climbing across the board it's getting hard for the average person to own and operate a fixed wing or a helicopter. So share the passion and the knowledge. Let the new guy fly.

This is how one mean old employer feels.

bossman

 

 

Bossman, If I have come off looking like I hate employers that is not my intention. I think what you have done is great and that you give new guys some help is even better. I have even stated that in my posts as I have seen how you have helped new people pn this forums. I was helped when I first started and have always treid to help others by giving the seat when it is available. Its also good to see you let the new guys get some experience. Most people just tell the people riding shotgun not to touch stuff. To actually let them fly the load is great. If you think that my post was directed at you in any way I apologize. It was not. I have NEVER once said a bad thing about you or directed my posts at you. The only thing my post was directed at was to the guy that said he will fly for free. That is the only thing that I hate to see in this industry. I have seen that way to many times. If you take two equally qualified individuals with both bieng starving pilots and both applying for the same job but one says I will fly for free just because they want the time all that pilot is doing is hurting the everyone else who applies down the line.

 

I hope I have cleared this misunderstanding up as what you have done is a good thing to the new guys. I also like to help the new guys out and keep avaition going and have helped severeal in the past both get started and have given them whatever turbine time I could. Keep doing what you doing helping these new guys and if I happen to head out to WV and see you I hope that you wont think I'm just a grumpy pilot that hates employers. All I have been trying to do is tellpeople to stick up for themselves and not sell themselves short just because they want a shortcut. Good Luck with everything out there.

[bossman]

500pilot,

I did not think you were directing your comments toward me. I very much understand your position. I agree with most of the things you are saying. I just did not like everyone jumping on volition because he said he would fly for free. We do not know his circumstances. He makes a good point with his boatpics statement. You'll be more than welcome if you get out our way. Come see us.

bossman

[Witch]

Hey Bossman,

 

I'd love to be able to fly the big machines that're here at my field. I was even contemplating asking if I might ride second on some ferry flights-I ain't doin' fires yet. I do know two pilots working for them, and that might be a door into getting a SIC seat. This thread has inspired me to do so when I finish up my commercial bit before starting the CFI thing.

 

I thank you.

 

Later

[volition]

500, you should read my boatpix reply, I did do some hours at boatpix, so I know what I'm talking about. Second, I'm from Canada, and here you cannot be an instructor after your commercial license. Most companies wants you to have 2000 to even be mention to instruct for the FTU. We have alot of companies here that would hire me with 500 hours even if the hours are all SIC, hence the reason I don't mind doing all SIC. Last, 500, sorry if I used the word free, let's put it in terms you may agree with (Like we care)...I'll get my Huey rating, WORK for bossman as SIC (If he'll have me), then pay him for my Huey training. Happy now

[500pilot]

500, you should read my boatpix reply, I did do some hours at boatpix, so I know what I'm talking about. Second, I'm from Canada, and here you cannot be an instructor after your commercial license. Most companies wants you to have 2000 to even be mention to instruct for the FTU. We have alot of companies here that would hire me with 500 hours even if the hours are all SIC, hence the reason I don't mind doing all SIC. Last, 500, sorry if I used the word free, let's put it in terms you may agree with (Like we care)...I'll get my Huey rating, WORK for bossman as SIC (If he'll have me), then pay him for my Huey training. Happy now

 

 

Violition, it sounds like what you are asking for is not to work for free but if you can get some open seat time if it is available if you pay for to get a transition in the Huey. There is nothing wrong with that and I firmly believe in helping any newcomer get that chance to fly. The thing is a Huey is not a dual pilot aircraft so in most cases an employer is getting paid to get a job done by a single individual and they are saying hey hop in this seat since its free. However if that employer is being paid for two pilots in the aircraft to have a pilot stoop so low as to say let me fly for free just to get some time that is showing no morals by either the employer or employee. I think most pilots out there will have something to say if that was the case. This was the reason I singled out your post. You are a comercial pilot (at least it sounds like you are) and if some employer is being paid to hire a pilot, they better pay that pilot and not let them work for free for flight time. That also is illegal in this country to do something like that even though it is done.

 

You can use the same analogy if an employer was looking for a pilot because they were contracted out to do a job. Two pilots show up and one pilot says "hey if you transition me in the aircraft, I'll work for free" all that shows is the pilots lack of morals about all the training they have put themselves through. Now the employer essentially has a endentured servant. How long do you have to work before you have paid off that transition and start to get paid? When you get a commercial licencse that is your reward for the hard work it took to get there and you should never have to work for free especially if an employer is being paid to hire you.

 

Another thing in your post is you mentioned you are from Canada which I didnt know because I was to stupid to look. I have no idea how things work out there with instructors but willing to work for free while flying in the US would be violating the regs. It sounds like you have a Canadian commercial licensce ans as such you can only fly a Canadian registered aircraft. You cannot legally work here in the US even for free or fly an N registered aircraft since you dont have an FAA licensce. Even an FAA private would be illegal since you are getting free flight time in trade. Remember commercial operations require a commercial cert and your own words state "I will work for free if I pay for a transition" This is getting technical since I know you just want to fly in an open seat if it was available. Also there's that whole thing about getting a work permit excetera since in your statement you are now an employee but not a US citizen.

 

In conclusion I know what you were asking for you just needed to phrase your wording better. You are a commercial pilot and I hope that you can get a job in the industry. I dont know how canada works but right now in the US if you have a CFI you can get a job anywhere. And with just 200 hours you dont have to CFI as there is lots of other stuff to do if you just look for it. Dont sell your self short in the future just to get some time. If an employer is getting paid to hire a pilot and you fit the bill you deserve to be paid. Your commercial cert says that all that hard work you did, all the studying and tests you took, you deserve to be one of the few pilots that get paid for a living. You've earned it. If the employer wants you to work for free just to have the privelage to fly your better off walking the other way. I hope you can get the time in the seat and you can get the hours needed in your country to be marketable. If I have an open seat I would be glad to offer it up to you if it can help someone get that much closer to thier dream. Good luck with everything.

[volition]

Question: Do I need a VISA?

Answer: It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you want some kind of certificate or rating from the FAA, then you will need to prove US Citizenship or go through a process with the Transportation Security Administration. If you are on vacation and you seek additional training to maintain proficiency, then you are simply a visitor to the US and flying is incidental to your visit. Examples:

 

VISA(non-tourist) & TSA Clearance Required

1. Private pilot certificate 2. Commercial pilot certificate 3. Instrument Rating 4. Multi-Engine Rating TSA Letter defining activites which VISA is required (as listed above)

Note: a VISA is always required for flight training. Flight training is defined as any training to obtain a recreational pilot, sport pilot, private pilot certificate, multiengine rating (at any level), or instrument rating. In short, anything that would result in a checkride requires a visa sponsored by a TSA certified "Foreign Training Provider".

 

VISA & TSA Clearance Not Required

1. Flight Review 2. Instrument Proficiency 3. Complex endorsement 4. High performance endorsement 5. Multi-Engine Time Building 6. Helicopter Time Building & Transition7. Ground School 8. Discovery Flights 9. Any certificate or rating for balloons, airships, or gliders.

Note: Since this is considered recurrent training, a visa is not required. Any ground training or flying which utilizes existing skills is exempt from the TSA screening process.

 

Therefore, when I got some hours at Boatpix, it was for time building, as i'm trying to do right now.

[volition]

Here a taste of what low timers have to deal with in Canada!!

 

How about the other end of the stick! Icefield helicopters wants low timer to pay for there own training, and work the broom for free! Read this. I left the owners name out of the letter.

 

KANANASKIS

MOUNTAIN HELICOPTERS LTD

 

Introductory Tour Pilot Letter 2006

Kananaskis Mountain Helicopters Ltd and Icefield Helicopter Tours are actively taking low time tour pilots. Prior to selecting any low time pilot, pilots’ are asked to volunteer time as ground crew at our Cline River Heliport.

The most important qualities we require are compatibility with staff and management, maturity, positive attitude, above average flying skills, ability to quickly learn mountain flying techniques, ability to see work that needs to be done, and working without constant supervision. Duties would include flying sightseeing tours (no off field landings permitted), ground briefing, loading of helicopters; care and cleaning of helicopters & ground vehicles & tour building and heliport; cooking for staff, making picnic lunches for clients, processing reservations, selling tours at the heliport to walk in clients and at a sales booth away from base, issuing boarding passes, collecting cash, driving vans to pickup guests (class 4 Alberta driving license & drivers abstract required) and any other tasks as required by Icefield Helicopter Tours. Prior to arriving, required ground training are a valid Standard First Aid and WHMIS certificates. Hours of operations are 7 am to 830 pm. The day starts at 6 am waking up, showers and breakfast; then by 7 am helicopter daily inspections in preparation to fly, and ends when the last helicopters are put to bed and the daily cash out and tour building clean up is completed; by about 9 pm.

 

If selected, we offer all pilots the same opportunity. You are required to pay all your training costs until you are an operational tour pilot and you can fly safely for hire. This includes our initial company training (min 2 hrs), Bell 206 endorsement (if required min 5 hours), Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC) with Transport Canada on Bell 206 (1 hr), Introduction to Mountain Flying (min 2 hrs), and Tour Pilot Training (min 1 hr). These are approximate times depending on your personal abilities, previous training and currency. Second year pilots require recurrent training and a Pilot Competency Check (PCC), internal (min 2 hrs). The training rate is $900/flying hour wet + GST, payment due prior to flight training. Those returning for the third year and beyond, all recurrent training costs are paid by Kananaskis Mountain Helicopters. Endorsements or full mountain courses are still required to be paid.

 

Should you be selected and accept our offer, we pay all first year pilots $27.50 per revenue hour flown. All second year pilots are guaranteed 2 flight hours per day and in the third year you are guaranteed 3 hours per day. Icefield Helicopter Tours supplies two per room accommodation and food, at no charge, for all crew. Rotations are two weeks on and mandatory one week off, away from base. In the past our first year pilots have flown between 50 - 100 hours during the first summer. As your proficiency progresses, you will be authorized to accomplish more tasks including off field landings, this then gives you more hours in future years. All low time pilots share the available hours depending on individual ability. The management will decide who flies but we do try to share as evenly as possible all flights.

 

Past successful low time pilots are now working in the industry having gotten their first break with us. Should you still be interested, please come to our Cline River Heliport and bring your flying clothes (clean beige pants), your work clothes, a towel and a sleeping bag. See our website for directions and give us a call once you have your arrival date.