High Altitude training

[Tara]

I have seen many schools advertising high altitude training. Is there actually an advantage to your skill by training in high altitude? I am trying to decided whether to go to school in Salt Lake or New York, big difference?

[PhotoFlyer]

High altitude means that you will have a much better understanding of power management. Helicopters fly differently when they are low on power, and not having experience with this lack of power can bite you when you least expect it. However, I wouldn't go across the country just to fly at altitude. Go to the school that you feel the best about, and that has an instructor who "meshes" well with you. After that, if you want high altitude training you can go get it.

[me shakes fist]

The idea is that you'll be better at power management since you will very often be near or at the aircrafts power limits. NY is at sea level so power limitations don't usually come into play during normal maneuvers, although you can just limit yourself for training purposes. NY does offer one thing you won't get from Salt Lake; very busy airspace close by, which can be good and bad.

 

Where in NY were you looking? I train at Republic on Long Island. I rarely hear of people moving to NY just to train - it's an expensive place to live.

 

edit - got distracted and took a while to post this so PhotoFlyer beat me to it.

Edited June 29, 2007 by me shakes fist

[captkirkyota]

NY does offer one thing you won't get from Salt Lake; very busy airspace close by, which can be good and bad.

You must not have ever been to Salt Lake then because it is VERY busy.

[me shakes fist]

Really? No I've never been, but it didn't strike me as a place that would be that busy.

[Tara]

The idea is that you'll be better at power management since you will very often be near or at the aircrafts power limits. NY is at sea level so power limitations don't usually come into play during normal maneuvers, although you can just limit yourself for training purposes. NY does offer one thing you won't get from Salt Lake; very busy airspace close by, which can be good and bad.

 

Where in NY were you looking? I train at Republic on Long Island. I rarely hear of people moving to NY just to train - it's an expensive place to live.

 

edit - got distracted and took a while to post this so PhotoFlyer beat me to it.

 

Thanks for the info. I haven't found a place in NY - part of my problem. I don't want to move there just to train, all of my family is there and I want to move back from SLC. I just keep hearing that the high altitude training is so much better and having a good school right here in SLC makes me wonder if I'm making a mistake by going back by my family instead of sticking it out and training here. Do you know much about schools in the tri-state area? Where is Republic? I have family on LI too.

[Tara]

You must not have ever been to Salt Lake then because it is VERY busy.

 

Do you train in SLC??

[me shakes fist]

Thanks for the info. I haven't found a place in NY - part of my problem. I don't want to move there just to train, all of my family is there and I want to move back from SLC. I just keep hearing that the high altitude training is so much better and having a good school right here in SLC makes me wonder if I'm making a mistake by going back by my family instead of sticking it out and training here. Do you know much about schools in the tri-state area? Where is Republic? I have family on LI too.

Republic is in Farmingdale which is on the west boarder of Suffolk County - map. I think there is a school out in Islip, as well, which is further east on the island. There is also Westchester county airport which is north of the city and Linden which is in NJ south of Newark - there might be schools at either of these but I don't know of any off hand. I did do a cross country to Linden once last year and the landing fee for helicopters was $25 so I won't be going back there anytime soon.

 

I can't really say which is better regarding high altitude training vs. sea level, but probably more important than that is the quality of the school and of your instructor. If you can, visit the schools in SLC and in NY that you might want to go to and see what you like/don't like about each.

 

The school I go to at Republic is Long Island Helicopter. It's a small school with 1 R22 right now and a new one on the way. Last I heard it should be there within a month. If you want to get in touch with them, their number is 631-293-8764.

[jmerryman]

There is also Westchester county airport which is north of the city and Linden which is in NJ south of Newark - there might be schools at either of these but I don't know of any off hand.

 

I'm training out of Linden (LDJ) at Pegasus http://www.pegasusflight.com - it's a Robinson school. I like the school, my instructor is great, and linden is a cool airport to learn at.

At Westchester (HPN), the school is Wings Air, LLC, they fly a 300C http://www.wingsair.net - I have not flown with them, but HPN is a fun airport - I did some fixed wing training there at Panorama (and just flew there last night from Linden on my night x/c).

 

Best of luck with your training

 

John

[captkirkyota]

Do you train in SLC??

No, I'm up in Boise Id. , but I know SLC airport is very busy as it is a hub for I believe Southwest airlines or America West or whatever they just changed there name to. It is class B airspace.

Boise airspace falls under SLC's...... jurisdiction???? I forget the exact term as I'm still learning all this stuff, but when I was told whatever it is that makes Boise area "subject" to SLC I was trippin' because of how far it is away from us.

[justfly]

...

Boise airspace falls under SLC's...... jurisdiction???? I forget the exact term as I'm still learning all this stuff, but when I was told whatever it is that makes Boise area "subject" to SLC I was trippin' because of how far it is away from us.

"KZLC" = Salt Lake City ARTCC (Air Route Traffic Control Center) a.k.a. "Salt Lake Center"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_Control_Center

 

....and as for the OP's question... I'd pick Salt Lake.

[Tara]

I'm training out of Linden (LDJ) at Pegasus http://www.pegasusflight.com - it's a Robinson school. I like the school, my instructor is great, and linden is a cool airport to learn at.

At Westchester (HPN), the school is Wings Air, LLC, they fly a 300C http://www.wingsair.net - I have not flown with them, but HPN is a fun airport - I did some fixed wing training there at Panorama (and just flew there last night from Linden on my night x/c).

 

Best of luck with your training

 

John

 

Hey John,

Pegasus is the school I was looking to find more info on because of its close proximity to my family and where I'd be if I make my move back. I haven't been able to find much info on it outside of their website. So I was a little wary because a lot of the other schools I've looked at have tons of feedback on them. Any advice/recommendation? Have you compared the expense to any of the other schools in the area? How far into your training are you?

 

Thanks! Tara

[shanesplanet]

Which schools have you looked at in the SLC area?

[southernweyr]

Just because an area has a class B airport does not mean it is busy when it relates to general aviation, especially when it comes to helicopters. You can fly around in class B airspace as a helicopter and never encounter another aircraft that is a factor to you. The jets take off and are above a thousand feet in a few seconds so helicopters are no factor.

[jmerryman]

Hey John,

Pegasus is the school I was looking to find more info on because of its close proximity to my family and where I'd be if I make my move back. I haven't been able to find much info on it outside of their website. So I was a little wary because a lot of the other schools I've looked at have tons of feedback on them. Any advice/recommendation? Have you compared the expense to any of the other schools in the area? How far into your training are you?

 

Thanks! Tara

 

I like pegasus - It's a small school - just one r22 now (the other one is houred out, but another one reportedly coming soon), one r44 and a 172 for fixed-wing. The manager's name is Richard, you can call and talk with him about costs, etc. My instructor, Markus, is great - and they just hired another full-time instructor the other day (hopefully the second r22 will materialize soon). Costs seem comparable to other operators in the area, but I only looked at Wings Air at Westchester. I decided that I would prefer to learn in an R22 over a 300c, so I went with Pegasus. I'm almost done with my private rating now - I just have my long solo x/c, .8h night and a bit more maneuvers practice until I'm ready for the checkride. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk in more detail.

 

John

[Privateer]

Tara, I've been training at utah helicopter here in SLC for a few months now. It's the only school I've been to so I don't have any other references, but they really do seem to care about my success. They have no problem working with my schedule, and even will change up a flight instructor for a flight if I feel like I need something explained differently (some times it's just those one or two simple things that make the light bulb in my head come on:blink:) Also I really like looking over my statement from the previous week and then paying it, nothing up front paid. As for the high altitude part, I can only guess what operating an R22 at sea level would be like must be like how it felt when the instructor jumped out and I took off solo... from heavy to sports car. I don't think the density altitude has been below 7400' for weeks now . Coaxing smooth performance and manuevers here just helps in the long run. Good luck.

[Tara]

Which schools have you looked at in the SLC area?

 

Upper Limit Aviation - www.ulaheli.com

Only one I've visited but was very impressed.

[Tara]

Tara, I've been training at utah helicopter here in SLC for a few months now. It's the only school I've been to so I don't have any other references, but they really do seem to care about my success. They have no problem working with my schedule, and even will change up a flight instructor for a flight if I feel like I need something explained differently (some times it's just those one or two simple things that make the light bulb in my head come on:blink:) Also I really like looking over my statement from the previous week and then paying it, nothing up front paid. As for the high altitude part, I can only guess what operating an R22 at sea level would be like must be like how it felt when the instructor jumped out and I took off solo... from heavy to sports car. I don't think the density altitude has been below 7400' for weeks now . Coaxing smooth performance and manuevers here just helps in the long run. Good luck.

 

Is Utah Helicopter at the SLC Airport? I'm thinking of going with Upper Limit - have any input? What about the nothing up front? So did you secure a loan, and then just pay out of an account? None of my business, just financing a huge concern to me right now if not a major obstacle.

Anyway, I've only checked out Upper Limit and they seemed cool have I think 2 R22 and 1 R44. So is what you are saying about flying the R22 at sea level is that it would have been more difficult for you to learn and practice?

[Privateer]

Is Utah Helicopter at the SLC Airport? I'm thinking of going with Upper Limit - have any input? What about the nothing up front? So did you secure a loan, and then just pay out of an account? None of my business, just financing a huge concern to me right now if not a major obstacle.

Anyway, I've only checked out Upper Limit and they seemed cool have I think 2 R22 and 1 R44. So is what you are saying about flying the R22 at sea level is that it would have been more difficult for you to learn and practice?

Utah Helicopter is at SLC #2 airport. I did some financing through Sallie Mae and it's dispersed to the Air Center of Salt Lake, I then just draw on that each week. Flying the R22 at sea level would be easier since the air is more dense and you have better performance, but learning to take off loaded for cross country with 8000ft density altitude makes you really smooth on power management and the controls

[shanesplanet]

I have attended both Upper Limit and Utah Helicopter. If you want pm me and I can give you my contact info so I can give you a first hand look at both schools.

Shane

[DonRow]

One thing you do get from high altitude training is you understand not to try and spank the helicopter. I went to school in flat a$$ Florida, but my first turbine job was with Papillon on the south rim. Let me tell you around 6,600' Pa but during summer your pushing 10,000' DA and it dose'nt help to have a full load of PAX on board close to max gross, but you catch on real fast the helicopter don't fly like it should. And you learn to manage power real good. Dose it make you a good pilot? It can, if you want it to. Should you go to school for it? I don't think so when you can get good free training from company's like Papillon, TEMSCO, Etc. I think I benifited from it. But one man with one mans opinion.

[Tara]

I have attended both Upper Limit and Utah Helicopter. If you want pm me and I can give you my contact info so I can give you a first hand look at both schools.

Shane

 

Awesome, thank you!

[Tara]

One thing you do get from high altitude training is you understand not to try and spank the helicopter. I went to school in flat a$$ Florida, but my first turbine job was with Papillon on the south rim. Let me tell you around 6,600' Pa but during summer your pushing 10,000' DA and it dose'nt help to have a full load of PAX on board close to max gross, but you catch on real fast the helicopter don't fly like it should. And you learn to manage power real good. Dose it make you a good pilot? It can, if you want it to. Should you go to school for it? I don't think so when you can get good free training from company's like Papillon, TEMSCO, Etc. I think I benifited from it. But one man with one mans opinion.

 

Should you go to school for it? I don't think so when you can get good free training from company's like Papillon, TEMSCO, Etc.

 

What do you mean by free training from companys? Do tell me more please!

[captkirkyota]

Should you go to school for it? I don't think so when you can get good free training from company's like Papillon, TEMSCO, Etc.

 

What do you mean by free training from companys? Do tell me more please!

He means that when you get a job with a company such as he lists, they will give you training in the copter you'll fly, turbine transition etc and it is "free", technically even paid training since your working for them. Believe me if an company were training brand new pilots for free, no one would only just now be hearing about it and that school would have a waiting list that went on forever.

[DonRow]

Yeah thats what I ment.