more important in a school? Cheap or lots of networking potential

[Rookie02]

Hey guys. What would you find to be more valuable in a school. I've got two schools I'm looking at, but I do not know which of these attributes have more weight in terms on benefit. The one school is about 15 grand cheaper but runs out of a very small airport. It is so small that you can literally takeoff and practice right around the airport with very little travel time wasted on running out to a practice area. The other school is more expensive, but runs out a massive airport with ops going on everywhere. This airport will obviously give me more practice with ATC communications, but I will have to travel some distance to a practice area. Also, and this is the biggest factor of which I know nothing about; this busy airport will provide me with great networking abilities. The school is surrounded by all of the news ops, sheriff, fire, ems, etc..... In fact, their last two CFI's got hired on ENG ships in the same airport. Now I've heard that most jobs in the Heli world are procured through networking, but should I bank on that to some extent when picking a school?

 

 

Thanks much guys,

[james28]

what are the names of the schools please.

[Goldy]

As far as ATC, go for it. Take the school with the busy ATC, you will screw up a few times, get yelled at a few times, it happens. When you have a few hours you will be more confident in Class C& D airspace than full blown pilots with 200 hours who have never called a tower before.

 

BTW, Long Beach isnt really that bad with helo's, I rarely have an issue ( despite the horror stories of some other pilots...maybe they just arent that good??!) Isnt that one of your choices??

 

Networking is HUGE ! Plenty of free or cheap time after you get your PPL...IF you know people!

 

I won't mention where I fly, I have given them plenty of free ads lately in my posts. But, if you are interested in VNY let me know...I can show you the school and I can put an hour on my favorite ship.

Goldy

Edited August 21, 2007 by Goldy

[joker]

Rookie02,

 

QUALITY outweighs both of those you put up there.

 

However, if the quality of them both is about the same, then yes, you have a connumdrum on your hands!

 

I would tend to agree with Goldy. Networking is a major factor. ATC experience is also good.

How far from the practice areas is your 'busy-airport' school. 5nm, 10nm 20nm!

 

A short transition between airfield and practice areas is not a major problem. The time can be used by a wise instructor to teach a host of concepts. You will gain skill and confidence with other traffic, joining procedures, special helicopter procedures, airspace transition and entries!

 

Just my opinion, but remember quality overrides both of your factors.

 

Joker

 

 

JAMES28, I wonder why you demand Rookie02 to mention the names of the school. In fact, I just sent a PM to another poster here about thinking twice before mentioning names of individuals and schools. Generally, if there is no need to, it would be more prudent to keep names off the board. Rookie02's question did not ask about the school's themselves. (See Goldy's post as an example!) A wiser person does not need that information to answer the questions.

 

Joker

Edited August 21, 2007 by joker

[slick1537]

He probably just want to protect him from a certain disreputable school.

[rollthbns]

I found that when researching a school, MANY things that I thought were important took a back seat to things I discovered in the research process. I wanted a school that had a little bit of everything possible. It was a hard bill to fill for sure! Maintenance was a huge issue, as was track record, reputation, networking possibilities, practice areas with ACTUAL variety of terrain - not simulated, proximity to busy airspace, and the school had to have a "guru" (Someone with YEARS and YEARS of experience) on staff or as the owner.

 

Good luck in your search! You will find the right place for YOU to train. Just remember, sometimes dollars get in the way of a good decision. I was very fortunate in that the school I chose to train with is basically local to me. PM me if you would like more information!

[james28]

i just want to know because i to am looking into schools and want to keep all available options open. i don't mean any harm.

[Scott83]

Well it's very hard to say which would be more important, a cheap school, or lots of networking potential. Here are my thoughts:

 

When you are in the flight training environment, everyone around you wants the same thing. They want in a turbine, they want their first break, and most will do anything to get it. This puts you at a disadvantage because you will have competition and lots of it. A lot of highly experienced pilots will get annoyed by this, which will put you at another disadvantage. Not to say that it can't happen, but it's something to consider.

 

However, there is a problem with a cheap school. It's safe to say that someone is getting the short end of the stick at a school that is cheap. 99% of the time, it's the instructor. You may be getting cheaper flight time, but when you move on to be an instructor with that school, expect low wages.

 

 

The best thing you can do is weigh the pros and cons. Remember that the best way to network is be friendly, be humble, don't be pushy, but be persistent.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Scott

[joker]

Scott83

 

Well it's very hard to say which would be more important,

 

Which is why he is asking the question!

 

When you are in the flight training environment, everyone around you wants the same thing.... This puts you at a disadvantage because you will have competition...

Competition is only a disdavantage if you are average or below average, or not socially capable (and so can't make friends or network effectively).

 

A lot of highly experienced pilots will get annoyed by this

By what?

 

The best thing you can do is weigh the pros and cons

I guess that's what he's doing as he posts here.

 

Scott83 / rollthbns,

 

Classic exam error. READ and ANSWER THE QUESTION! Rookie02 asks 2 questions in his post.

 

1. What would you find to be more valuable in a school?

 

2. Now I've heard that most jobs in the Heli world are procured through networking, but should I bank on that to some extent when picking a school?

 

I don't think either of you answered his question. I think what you are both saying is exactly right. It's a hard choice and it's his choice. But you haven't really helped him on the issue of his question. Put your balls where mouth is, and answer his question. Which is more important? Is networking something to bank on?

 

I'm not having a go. I think its great that you have taken the time to post some valuable ideas. I'm just pointing out that Rookie02 is probably just as flummexed (on his topic) as he was. Let's help him by addressing his queries.

 

If I am out of order or wrong, then I am very sorry. I don't want to deter you from posting in future.

 

Joker

Edited August 23, 2007 by joker

[james28]

thanks professor joker. you ok man?

[zemogman]

Rookie,

 

I believe that if the extra $$$ that it will take to fly in the "massive airport" is available to you...(and you feel comfortable with that amount)...the networking, ATC experience, and environment will pay dividends that 15k couldn't buy you. Most, if not all areas of life are only as valuable as the relationships you make or have. The other school may not provide you with these opportunities.

 

If a career in the helicopter industry is what you are after...then make those 15k the best investment you can by having a positive attitude, meeting anyone and everyone you can, and being humble (ready to help & serve) in everyway. Relationships are invalueable...

 

So in summary...(cause Joker made a great point)

 

1. What would you find to be more valuable in a school? ---- NETWORKING, RELATIONSHIPS & INTENSE TRAINING (if you can afford the difference)

 

2. Now I've heard that most jobs in the Heli world are procured through networking, but should I bank on that to some extent when picking a school? ---- YES

[Scott83]

Alright Joker,

 

I must reply to your response. The problem is simple.....There is no cut and dry answer to his question. All I did was give him some things to consider when making his choice. Maybe he has thought of them, maybe not. In my personal opinion, I would go with the school that costs more, with more networking potential, and the ability to train at a busy airport.

 

When I mentioned in my last post was that experienced pilots sometimes will get annoyed by the lower timed pilots always fishing for their big break. Not all will however, but many do. This problem is bigger at larger flight schools that also have ENG, EMS, and Police helicopters staged at their location.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, calm down Joker. Go take a walk, grab a beer, or just relax.

 

 

 

Scott

[ADRidge]

Here's my take on it: In your flying career, you'll be expected to know how to operate in hectic and busy airports at least once or twice. If you learn in that environment, you'll be that much better a pilot for it. But I'd wager that's only about 40% of the equation, if the helicopter world is anything like the rest of the world. The other 60% is who you know and who you impress. Network as much as you can, leave as many good impressions as possible while being the best damn pilot you can.

 

I say go for the bigger school.

[joker]

Scott83,

 

Thanks for the clarification!

 

Actually, as I said, your post was full of 'true' information. I totally agree. There is no clear cut answer.

 

I just think that Rookie02 took the time to pose a well structured question (or two), but wasn't getting much help. A couple of responses not what he was looking for was what he got. I'm sure that he is much better in the picture now, as a result of my post. People have not sat on the fence. They've been more direct in their advice.

 

As for getting a beer and chillin' out a little(!), yes sometimes I do go off on one ...and I'm sorry about that! I never mean any harm. I just like to 'stir the pot' out of boredom , you know, get people thinking. People are welcome to call me on anything; I'll relish the exchange .

 

So long people don't take offence as I never mean anything personal or take offence myself. Just some fun as long as we are all one big happy family at the end!

 

Fly safe,

 

Joker

[Rookie02]

hey guys. Thank you for all of your advice. I took an intro lesson at the expensive school and the instruction was hands down better than what I got at the other school. As Joker said, quality I suppose must be considered the most important factor and you all have reaffirmed what I believed, networking, even while I'm in school, is a big piece of the puzzle. And as Zegoman said, 15k is worth the price if it makes me a better pilot and helps me to get a job after i get that 1,000 hours.

 

Thanks everybody, you helped me make a hard, hard decision easy to make!

 

That said, the same day I took that intro lesson, I went mountain biking with my friend. We went racing down the mountain on some good single-track, I was being careful and actually listening to some classical music -- haha -- when my front tire caught something and swung sideways sending me headfirst over the handlebars into a dirt and rock face. Well this broke my collar bone almost right in half. So, now I've got to wait a month or so to start school. Damn! And as testament to how I and I know all of you feel about flying, after I fell and felt my clavicle sticking an in inch out at the break, the first thing I said to my friend was "F**k, I'm not going to be flying for a while.

 

Well, I guess I'll have to settle for reading some heli books this month. Oh well, thanks again guys, I'll be back in the air with all of you soon and now I can feel assured it will be sitting next to the right CFI at the right school.

 

thanks much

 

jereme

[ADRidge]

Jeez, that'll put a damper on your day. As someone who has just started training after (literally) a year of false starts, I really feel for ya. The good news is, helicopters will still be there in a month. Get intimate with the Rotorcraft Handbook and anything else you can get your hands on. This will help pass the time.

[slick1537]

A pdf copy of the rotorcraft flying handbook is available on the FAA website. I found aerodynamic aspects of a helicopter, as explained by the handbook hard to understand. "Principles of Helicopter Flight" is a pretty good book and I think a lot of things are much better explained than in the handbook. Do read and understand, it WILL save you time and money in ground school!

Edited August 24, 2007 by slick1537

[joker]

then make those 15k the best investment you can

you helped me make a hard, hard decision easy to make!

 

zemogman's quote (top) and Rookie's (above) touch on one of my firmest beliefs.

 

"When faced with what looks like a hard, hard decision, the decision is actually easy. Either one can be right. (That's why it's a hard decision!) After whichever decision you make, with the right attitude, and strength of mind and character you can make certain it was a good one." - Joker 2001

 

I try to apply this logic whenever I am torn between two choices. It helps me to make decisions. It gives me strength to say to myself, "Here goes! I can sit about worrying forever, or get on one path and make the most of it." Just my character.

 

Rookie02, sorry to hear about your clavical. A real shame. Use the time wisely.

 

Joker

 

Edited August 24, 2007 by joker

[zemogman]

Sorry about your injury...that's a bummer!

 

I know how you feel (without the physical pain)... after shelving my helicopter dreams for 15 years too long, then having my "SilverState" bubble of excitement burst (Thank God for that)...the second flight school/instructor I interviewed with; which was a very high time, retired Navy Seal, one student at a time, experienced rotary & fixed wing pilot, received a phone call on his cell phone during our final interview and negotiations to begin school.

 

His doctor told him he couldn't get his medical, right in front of me...as we were writing my schedule for flight school. Something was lookin' wierd with his heart...With a gulp in his throat and watery eyes, this grown man looked me right in the eye and said..."I guess you won't be flying with me afterall". I felt worse for him than I did for myself...as it seemed as if his life-long career in this industry was over.

 

After a few hours of discouragement (on my end)...I called him back for a referral and went forward with my training...

>>

I passed my "stage-check" for solo yesterday afternoon (oral and in-flight) --- I should be soloing next week sometime (after a written exam).

 

Even though you don't sound discouraged...it can happen to anyone...do a search on the general forum, there's a great thread with books to read while you wait...and stay focused on the goal.

 

I wish you the best...

 

P.S. --- Since then...I heard Phil got his medical certificate back...I'm very happy for him and I keep in touch with him every so often.

(RELATIONSHIPS ARE EVERYTHING --- )