Whats up with the MD520N NOTAR helicopter?

[cherminator]

I don't see much talk about the MD520N NOTAR helicopter. It seems to me to be the ideal helicopter. Safer because of no tail rotor and quieter too.

 

Why are there not more of them out there? I heard a rumour that they might be going bankrupt. Are they still selling the 520N? Does anyone know how much they go for new? Whenever I try to call their marketing dept. I only get voicemail and they don't reply to emails for some reason.

[slick1537]

I heard the NOTAR system is slow to yaw around. Just what I heard though.

[500E]

Not Slow just different.

Don't think Patriot would like to let it all go down the tubes, service is improving, and sales are on the up.

Do you want a new Machine?, The responses I have had to factory queries have been good, & not for new product either.

This one is for sale in Italy with extended tail and ADs done I understand

The man says the best you will find it looks great, I have times in Excel format if you require them.

[cherminator]

Not Slow just different.

Don't think Patriot would like to let it all go down the tubes, service is improving, and sales are on the up.

Do you want a new Machine?, The responses I have had to factory queries have been good, & not for new product either.

This one is for sale in Italy with extended tail and ADs done I understand

The man says the best you will find it looks great, I have times in Excel format if you require them.

 

 

It's a beauty 500e. Do you have any more details? Price, specs, etc?

[james28]

sure is pretty, i think the LA police have one. tops out at around 180 mph if i remember correctly. very cool helicopter.

[EAGLE1]

I don't see much talk about the MD520N NOTAR helicopter. It seems to me to be the ideal helicopter. Safer because of no tail rotor and quieter too.

 

Why are there not more of them out there? I heard a rumour that they might be going bankrupt. Are they still selling the 520N? Does anyone know how much they go for new? Whenever I try to call their marketing dept. I only get voicemail and they don't reply to emails for some reason.

 

 

 

Fly it for a few hundred hours and you might change your mind about the "ideal" helicopter. I do not hold a degree in business but lets see. Hughes sold to MD, MD sold to Boeing, Boeing sold to the "new" MD who sold it to the latest MD Helicopters. Maybe the NOTAR is great on paper, maybe its great in a helicopter designed for it (902 Explorer) but there has to be a reason why this hot potato keeps changing hands.......

[Goldy]

Jeff- youre right on the mark...I was going to say that two years ago no one even knew if the MD would be around..who would invest that kind of money in a ship with no support?

 

Maybe now I hear things are better, but when you drop that kind of money you want some security...and thats what I think has held them back.

 

I hear the 600 isnt as nice as the 520N....I have never flown either.

 

James28- It's not LAPD that has one, its Glendale Burbank joint airship that uses one..and of course Newport Beach is a big MD user...I know the pilot at Glendale loves flying it, considers it the best ship in the air...

[Voluptuary5]

I remember seeing similar threads in the past and basically it came down to reliability. The Notar is relatively unproven in terms of total hours flown versus other “conventional” anti-torque systems.

 

Give it some time. If it proves to be as safe (or safer) it will gain popularity.

 

After all, non-helicopter enthusiasts hate helicopter noise.

 

Time will tell,

 

-V5

[cherminator]

I remember seeing similar threads in the past and basically it came down to reliability. The Notar is relatively unproven in terms of total hours flown versus other “conventional” anti-torque systems.

 

Give it some time. If it proves to be as safe (or safer) it will gain popularity.

 

After all, non-helicopter enthusiasts hate helicopter noise.

 

Time will tell,

 

-V5

 

 

But haven't they already been around for almost 20 years?

 

They cost $1,375,000. for a new one with just under a year to get one from the factory.

 

Advantages of NOTAR:

 

Reduced noise. Benefits of the NOTAR system include greatly reduced external noise (NOTAR-equipped helicopters are among the quietest certified helicopters). This is because up to 60% of the noise from conventional helicopters is produced by the interaction of the tip vortices of the main and tail rotor.

 

Increased safety and reliability. Helicopter accidents may be caused by the tail rotor striking tree branches, power lines, the ground or other obstructions. Eliminating the tail rotor removes this hazard and enables NOTAR helicopters to go where tail rotor layout helicopters cannot i.e. close to trees or buildings. They are also safer for ground crews to work near as there is no danger posed from a spinning tail rotor.

 

Reduced vibration. Since there is no interaction between tip vortices of the main and tail rotor, the operational vibration is reduced.

 

Reduced Pilot Workload. The thrust force of the coandă effect caters to the need of antitorque force. As the torque effect requires more antitorque, the coandă effect provides more lift to provide that antitorque.

 

 

Disadvantages of NOTAR:

 

Efficiency. The NOTAR system is not as efficient as the tail rotor, and NOTAR helicopters sacrifice some power as a result.

 

Maneuverability. Although generally agile and stable, at speed the properties of the airflow over the tail boom change, and the Coandă effect fails. The 'H'-shaped tail characteristic of NOTAR helicopters is used to provide anti-torque at speed using conventional moving control surfaces. As a result, the helicopter can be difficult to turn when traveling at speed, and the large control surfaces of the tail inhibit maximum sideways velocity.

 

Aerodynamics. The translating tendency and the tail rotor roll forces continue to exist.

[EAGLE1]

Goldy,

 

Actually Newport Beach and Costa Mesa PD's have a combined air unit known as Airborne Law Enforcement Services (ABLE). We had a NOTAR for a short while and sold it. We replaced all of our MD products with the EC120B. I think you are thinking of Huntington Beach PD which operates NOTARS and they seem to be happy with them. It is no secret I am not a fan of the NOTAR and I hated flying it. The 500E was a great helicopter and still is. I loved each and every one of my 1500 hours in the E model. If MD would put half the effort into upgrading and modernizing the E model as they do trying to sell NOTARS they could have an outstanding helicopter. I don't know why they don't start making the new MH6 Little Birds for civilian operations. That would be a best seller overnight. I believe MD does not own the rights to the Little Bird so that might have something to do with it. To all those that fly and love the NOTAR, good for you, I guess it just comes down to the Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge, everyone has their favorites for what ever reason. The NOTAR is just not mine. There are many operators that utilize the NOTAR each and every day and it works successfully for them so obviously it is a capable machine. And lastly a quick shout out to my friend Dan who is no doubt itching to respond to this post.

[EAGLE1]

I disagree strongly with the "reduced Pilot workload" comment. The NOTAR tuck and the NOTAR shuffle certainly do not reduce the pilot workload in my opinion.

 

But haven't they already been around for almost 20 years?

 

They cost $1,375,000. for a new one with just under a year to get one from the factory.

 

Advantages of NOTAR:

 

Reduced noise. Benefits of the NOTAR system include greatly reduced external noise (NOTAR-equipped helicopters are among the quietest certified helicopters). This is because up to 60% of the noise from conventional helicopters is produced by the interaction of the tip vortices of the main and tail rotor.

 

Increased safety and reliability. Helicopter accidents may be caused by the tail rotor striking tree branches, power lines, the ground or other obstructions. Eliminating the tail rotor removes this hazard and enables NOTAR helicopters to go where tail rotor layout helicopters cannot i.e. close to trees or buildings. They are also safer for ground crews to work near as there is no danger posed from a spinning tail rotor.

 

Reduced vibration. Since there is no interaction between tip vortices of the main and tail rotor, the operational vibration is reduced.

 

Reduced Pilot Workload. The thrust force of the coandă effect caters to the need of antitorque force. As the torque effect requires more antitorque, the coandă effect provides more lift to provide that antitorque.

Disadvantages of NOTAR:

 

Efficiency. The NOTAR system is not as efficient as the tail rotor, and NOTAR helicopters sacrifice some power as a result.

 

Maneuverability. Although generally agile and stable, at speed the properties of the airflow over the tail boom change, and the Coandă effect fails. The 'H'-shaped tail characteristic of NOTAR helicopters is used to provide anti-torque at speed using conventional moving control surfaces. As a result, the helicopter can be difficult to turn when traveling at speed, and the large control surfaces of the tail inhibit maximum sideways velocity.

 

Aerodynamics. The translating tendency and the tail rotor roll forces continue to exist.

[LostHeliBoy]

"Coandă effect"

is that the same as the Magnus Effect..?

[Alpine Pacific Helicopters]

I don't see much talk about the MD520N NOTAR helicopter. It seems to me to be the ideal helicopter. Safer because of no tail rotor and quieter too.

 

Why are there not more of them out there? I heard a rumour that they might be going bankrupt. Are they still selling the 520N? Does anyone know how much they go for new? Whenever I try to call their marketing dept. I only get voicemail and they don't reply to emails for some reason.

 

Hi Cherminator

 

The new price for a 520N is US$1.6M, they made two over the last year with both being delivered this month (April-08) and they are just making the one so far for the rest of 08 with delivery schedules mid-2009. I purchased on in February-07 from the company and it is one of the two that gets delivered this month. Would consider selling as well if anybody was interested.

 

Ross Clarke

Alpine Pacific Helicopters

[Eric Hunt]

Most of these responses are written from the pilot viewpoint.

 

The reason these are not popular are because they are passenger-unfriendly.

 

The Notar Shuffle means the pilot is tap-dancing on the pedals in flight to attempt to stay in trim, and this means that after about 30 minutes, passengers are re-visiting breakfast.

 

There is also a head-room problem in the back, as well as the noise and vibes from the transmission tunnel 4 inches from their ears. In the 600N, the back-facing pax get to see their breakfast earlier than the forward-facing pax, but soon after that it is a smorgasbord.

 

There is no power advantage, and in many cases there is a disadvantage compared to the tail rotor versions.

[Eric Hunt]

Stupid computer sent it twice. Must stop feeding it rum and cola.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Eric Hunt

[Darkhorse]

The Border patrol had some 600's, I think they have gotten rid of all of them (dont quote me) but a big problem was low flying in the desert and the sand was causing alot of abrasion in the tailboom with the NOTAR.