1,000 hours CFI Still having EMPLOYMENT problems.

[chop_top]

Alright first of all is there a single sole in the helicopter industry that likes there job? Enjoys the freedom of flight, the cool head sets, chicks,did I mention the freedom of flight. Everyone is so negative that its hard to even get on this site while training. But I do have a little spice to through in the Chili. Currently training and working my way to CFI, when right next to me is another student/instructor. With the MAGIC number of 1,000 hours and CFI and nobody is even looking at him. I just want to know whats the deal. Because now it seems like employers are looking at close to 2,000 hours and both CFI, CFII ratings? Is there ever an end to this? Even so I'm about two months into my full time flight training. While filling my application to the Robinson safety corse (JUNE OF 08') I did the math and that is over 2,800 pilots to the market in just 10 months. Does anyone really know if there is any good to come out of becoming a helicopter pilot?

 

We have been told for the past ten years that these Viet-Cong pilots are leaving? Yet no large hole in the market. Don't get me wrong I love everything about flying. Is there even one good story to this open promised industry? God, lets hope so or I won't be the only twenty some year old kid put in massive debt.

[AdamSTL]

Well it's hard to go on hearsay. I am familiar with two low time pilots who are flying Turbine -- Under 1000 Hours. I know another two non-military pilots who are Gainfully employed for a grand total of four people. I've certainly come in contact with many more rotor-craft pilots who are living off the Helicopter Industry. Not a lot of people but I haven't had a chance to come in contact with many more. Obviously it can be done.

 

A few years ago I worked with a guy who had a degree from Cornell who came back and worked for effectively nothing for months while he tried to find an Entry Level Job. I have a friend with a Bachelor's in Business who went back to Toys'r'us after spending a little while in a Cube-farm because the pay was Similar. I'm not suggesting that a Bachelor's isn't worth having; but no one is going to be beating down your door. Half the battle is knowing what to do with a certificate once you have one. I don't think anyone is suggesting that 1000PIC means you are now a celebrity. You are still going to have to get out there; do some networking; and generally make people aware you are an attractive prospect. Also if you are not willing to move you have limited your possibilities immensely. That's true of any industry but it's critical for pilots. It certainly seems like the people who can't go anywhere are the ones who can't find jobs.

 

I'm not sure much of anything is automatic at this point. Depending on how you play the game the outcome can vary significantly. I work with a guy right now who makes more money than I do; has a girlfriend who also works full time; doesn't have a car; and has only somewhat higher expenses that should be easily offset by the second income. I just paid off $5000 in student loans and they are having a hard time paying rent. What the difference? I don't know but obviously there are at least two ways to get it done.

 

It would be awesome to hear from some Employed CFIs and former students. There are a few around but I've noticed some of the regulars have lost interest in the forum over the last two years.

[Sparker]

It would be awesome to hear from some Employed CFIs and former students. There are a few around but I've noticed some of the regulars have lost interest in the forum over the last two years.

 

I'm sure after a while they get sick of answering "R-22 or 300"? and "My friend is going to SSH and I just got approved for 70K, should I do it?" and "You're stupid if you think you have any future in this industry -Fry"

 

Anyway, about getting the job- there are CFIs getting hired at 750 and 900 hours, but they are hard working and they know how to schmooze, you have to sell yourself just like anything else. Even if all the Vietnam guys retired tomorrow, you still have to hunt their jobs down. They wont go out on a search to find you. Most schools talk about their great networking, I think it looks a little poorly for the school, unless this CFI just loves instructing. Doubt it.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Sparker

[Wally]

Alright first of all is there a single sole in the helicopter industry that likes there job? Enjoys the freedom of flight, the cool head sets, chicks,did I mention the freedom of flight. Everyone is so negative that its hard to even get on this site while training. But I do have a little spice to through in the Chili. Currently training and working my way to CFI, when right next to me is another student/instructor. With the MAGIC number of 1,000 hours and CFI and nobody is even looking at him. I just want to know whats the deal. Because now it seems like employers are looking at close to 2,000 hours and both CFI, CFII ratings? Is there ever an end to this? Even so I'm about two months into my full time flight training. While filling my application to the Robinson safety corse (JUNE OF 08') I did the math and that is over 2,800 pilots to the market in just 10 months. Does anyone really know if there is any good to come out of becoming a helicopter pilot?

 

We have been told for the past ten years that these Viet-Cong pilots are leaving? Yet no large hole in the market. Don't get me wrong I love everything about flying. Is there even one good story to this open promised industry? God, lets hope so or I won't be the only twenty some year old kid put in massive debt.

 

If you mean is anybody happy working at this? Then, yes, lots of pilots are. I've been doing this, off and on- mostly, on- since '68. I love the job. This is what I wanted to do since I was 10. It's not what I expected it to be- it's better. I look forward to going to work, but not because of "freedom of flight, the cool head sets, chicks" factors. Flying is demanding, hard work. I wear helmet. And, 'chicks' worth meeting take effort whether you're a pilot or not.

 

I'm one of the VietNam Era pilots who ARE leaving the industry, whether you see the 'large hole' or not. It is happening, and the industry knows it. It weakens their bargaining position to openly acknowledge it (Don't play much poker, do you?). I'm not leaving at this very second, but the clock is running out, and there's nothing you, I, or the industry, can do about it. Somebody else will be filling my job, and lots of others, soon. Whether it will be you, is entirely up to you. It makes no difference to me or the industry.

If you have what it takes- and a very little luck, you'll be happy at this, too. It takes a herculean amount of work to get your first good job (Hercules had to shovel a lot of, well, you know what he had to shovel.). After that, it'll take a lot of work just to keep working. I never had an unsolicited job offer worth a second glance. I spend, and spent, a lot of time looking for each that I take and have taken.

 

You won't make a lot of money, pulling a significant debt-tail, especially. Even so, you'll do better than I and my colleagues, the "Viet-Cong pilots" you're so impatient of.

 

Hint- Smile when you say stuff like "Viet-Cong pilots". Some people suffer fools very little; and, as potential colleagues, not at all...

[slick1537]

There have been CFIs from my school getting work with less than 1000 hours. Supposedly the number is suppose to go down as demand goes up, I just can't see it happening if insurance companies have any say in it.

[HelliBoy]

I always secretly hope all the negative people on here give up flying- more jobs and better, hard working people to work with. Secrets out. Also- you dont get to 1000 hrs and poof! A job offer lands in your in-box. Sometimes you have to work to find a job...go figure.

[DonRow]

No there leaving my man. go look at all the jobs listings on jsfirm.com the GOM is in bad need of pilots ERA, PHI, RCL, Bristow A.K.A. Airlog Etc. Their always looking for pilots I no operators that have a hard time trying to get pilots with the time that's required. see the thing is like the other poster said you gota work at looking for that job. Company's like the one I listed above and TEMSCO, Papillon Grand Canyon, Mavrick, Sundance Etc. will give a turbine transition with low hours that is of course if your in to flying tours. Your not going to get a utility job right off the bat though, that your going to have to put in the time first. I've got 2,500 Hrs. and I know I'm still scratching the surface. But your always going to meet people in the industry that are negative it's just how you take it.

Edited September 7, 2007 by DonRow

[Gomer Pylot]

Choptop, try not to take this the wrong way, because I'm genuinely trying to give you good advice, and to help.

 

When you make remarks like 'Viet-Cong pilots', you come across as either a dumbass or a smartass, and neither is attractive to an employer. You also need to learn English grammar and spelling. Given two pilots with identical qualifications, one with good writing skills and seemingly educated, and one who writes the way you do, the one who can write grammatically correct sentences will be hired first. Learn the difference between there, their, and they're; you're and your; its and it's; and all the other stuff - stuff you should have learned in high school but obviously didn't. The chief pilots and company owners are still largely from the Vietnam era, and even if they aren't, they still respect those who were. Do not antagonize them, and do not show your ignorance of the language. If you can't spell and can't write, you have a much poorer chance of being hired. Whether you think that has anything at all to do with flying is completely irrelevant - you aren't going to be the one doing the hiring, you're the one who doesn't even get the interview because your resume is so poorly presented. It's a cold world out there, and you need to do what it takes to get along in it. I don't make the rules, and I won't be doing the hiring, I'm just trying to point out areas where you can make improvements to increase your hiring chances.

[Copterpilot213]

In my opinion Gomer and Wally make some good points. My advice to you is to become the safest, most knowledgeable pilot and CFI that you can be. Work on networking with other pilots, the helicopter industry is small compared to other industries and because of that don't ever burn bridges.

 

Do the research now, look at job openings and requirements. Plan out your career as much as you can ahead of time. Also, as mentioned, jobs never fall into your lap... especially ones that you'd want... In any career.

[cctk2]

In my opinion Gomer and Wally make some good points. My advice to you is to become the safest, most knowledgeable pilot and CFI that you can be. Work on networking with other pilots, the helicopter industry is small compared to other industries and because of that don't ever burn bridges.

 

Do the research now, look at job openings and requirements. Plan out your career as much as you can ahead of time. Also, as mentioned, jobs never fall into your lap... especially ones that you'd want... In any career.

With 1000 hrs, you can sign on with TEMSCO as a tour pilot.

Im a professional pilot with this company for 10 years, and I LOVE MY JOB.

[Helo-Pilot]

Chop Top, no one is going to 'look' at you, or knock on your door. Like 99% of all other jobs out there, you are going to have to knock on doors yourself. You're going to have to smile, schmooze, and impress employers with your attitude first, and then your flying skills. Learn to be polite, political, persistent, and personable.

 

 

Are you happy Gomer? LOL!

Edited September 8, 2007 by Helo-Pilot

[Gomer Pylot]

I'm almost always happy.

[LostHeliBoy]

Chop Top, no one is going to 'look' at you, or knock on your door. Like 99% of all other jobs out there, you are going to have to knock on doors yourself. You're going to have to smile, schmooze, and impress employers with your attitude first, and then your flying skills. Learn to be polite, political, persistent, and personable.

Are you happy Gomer? LOL!

 

 

This Job that job any job ...

What Gomer said a couple of posts ago applies.. to any field. any job . any industry..

This is my Third Career choice and each was what I thought was the best decision for me at the time.. of course I was younger then and wiser now (Ya Right) BUT, now I'm watching students come into the marketplace with a sense of entitlement that is misplaced! Nothing in this world is free! You have to work at it and make you own. Work ethic and relationships with co-workers are the gold that gets you to the next rung on this crappy political ladder that is in the helicopter, or for that matter, any industry market.

I've learned to be humble along the way, respect my elders they are usually right) and hard work does pay off.

 

I Really like the header that Vert Ref. has on there employment page "I was looking for a job when I came here, I'll be looking for a job when I leave..." its a reminder that your only as good as your reference!

 

Hard work does pay off. A lot of helicopter pilots really like what they do and feel fulfilled in their positions.

 

SO.. if you like hard work keep at it.. if not, try flipping burgers and sitting in the back seat to life..

[flying high]

This Job that job any job ...

What Gomer said a couple of posts ago applies.. to any field. any job . any industry..

This is my Third Career choice and each was what I thought was the best decision for me at the time.. of course I was younger then and wiser now (Ya Right) BUT, now I'm watching students come into the marketplace with a sense of entitlement that is misplaced! Nothing in this world is free! You have to work at it and make you own. Work ethic and relationships with co-workers are the gold that gets you to the next rung on this crappy political ladder that is in the helicopter, or for that matter, any industry market.

I've learned to be humble along the way, respect my elders they are usually right) and hard work does pay off.

 

I Really like the header that Vert Ref. has on there employment page "I was looking for a job when I came here, I'll be looking for a job when I leave..." its a reminder that your only as good as your reference!

 

Hard work does pay off. A lot of helicopter pilots really like what they do and feel fulfilled in their positions.

 

SO.. if you like hard work keep at it.. if not, try flipping burgers and sitting in the back seat to life..

AMEN! Brother! By the way hope all is well with ya. C

[Sabio]

Hello all from the beautiful desert of Baghdad.

 

Chop Top, you mention the "Viet-cong" era pilots...well, let me just correct you in this real quick with no offence... "Vietcong"(the guerrilla force that, with the support of the North Vietnamese Army, fought against South Vietnam (late 1950s1975) who by the way were the enemy. You might want to use the term Vietnam Vet or just plain “Vet”. In the future when referring to a fellow veteran, they do take it very personal specially helo-pilots, who were the ones that risk their lives day and night to go into the front lines to drop, pick and assist troops…

 

You worry about fellows Vietnam Vet pilots occupying most of the job market... well, now you have the Iraq era Vet pilots coming out of the desert with more than 5K PIC, NVG, etc.... You will have now to compete with that.

 

And like other guys say before... you have to network and prepare your self and sell your self to the market. This is my 3rd tour in Iraq. 1st tour as a Tank Commander on the M1A2 Abrahams Tank, 2nd as a pilot, UH-60 Blackhawk Pilot, and 3rd as a civilian contractor.

 

During my 2nd tour as a pilot, brand new fresh out of the pilot school, in 18 months I put over 3500hrs, and I am still consider a rookie.

 

By the way, there are few companies here in Iraq that is hiring Helicopter Pilots, good pay and benefits....

 

.................................Be Safe, Fly High............................................

"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived."

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[BJH]

Hello Wally,

 

My name is Brannon and I'm new to this forum, and I'm hoping you will answer some questions for me, as I'm trying to learn about this industry and afford myself the best opportunity for employment in the future.

 

First, you state "If you have what it takes- and a very little luck, you'll be happy at this, too. It takes a herculean amount of work to get your first good job (Hercules had to shovel a lot of, well, you know what he had to shovel.). After that, it'll take a lot of work just to keep working." Please advise me on how I should prepare myself to get as soon as possible after I complete my CFII. You make mention that it will take a lot of work just to keep working; it is hard to stay gainfully employed with a company once you are an employee?

 

I am a 35 year old loan officer who has decided to finally to follow his dream, with the support of his wife. I live in Texas close enough to the GOM that a commute should not be a problem with a 7/7 shift, so I'm hoping to find a job there. How difficult might this be?

 

Another person alludes to the fact that one will have to work tours in order to get the needed turbine hours/experience to work in the GOM. I was under the impression that the companies in the GOM would train you themselves, is this not true?

 

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this message and reply. I am looking to draw upon the experience of persons such as you so that I may be prepared and have a successful future as a professional pilot.

 

Brannon

 

(Advice from others reading this is appreciated as well.)

[slick1537]

No, GOM or tours, can be either, is usually a starting point for someone with 1000 piston hours looking to move into turbines. Most companies in the GOM and some tour companies will train you on the turbines.

[Autorotator]

Employers in the GoM are generally looking for 1000 hours helicopter time. The companys will train you in the their helicopter and prepare you for your 135 practical test. Usually the tours companies are looking for the same.

 

Hope this helps.

 

--CM

[BJH]

Thank you Autorotator and Slick537 that does answer one of my questions. Your help is appreciated.

[TheLorax]

thanks to this thread i now remember why i stopped reading this forum. if, and since you probably are, a dumbass chop top, then gomer pilot is a pompous a**hole with a few too many pieces of cong lead still stuck in his dead head. don't bother straining your 50-something brain trying to make any witty comebacks gomer pylon; i wont be back to read them. no one else on VR wants to read about you trying to defend yourself either.

Edited September 14, 2007 by TheLorax

[500E]

Chop Top

As a person who hires people I feel that you would not get past my PA who opens letters and screens them.

The comment that headsets, chicks etc. would have sent blood pressure up, and it would be suggested that you were not the person our Co was looking for, and as I listen to all my employees, especially my PA. you would not get past 1st post.

LostHeliBoy (quote)

"BUT, now I'm watching students come into the marketplace with a sense of entitlement that is misplaced! ".

I am with you on this one it has been one of my pet grouses for years, I want a professional motivated person with good communication skills, who will stay with us, THEY are the front line for OUR business.

We do not want people who think they are owed a living.

Gomer Pilot

Is correct the people hiring are the Cong!! personally I would not call them that even in jest, whether you agreed with the Vietnam war or not.

You might be a Real nice person but the tone of the post is not good, Please don't take Lorax post as the norm on this site, his attack on GP shows his immaturity and rudeness.

[LostHeliBoy]

t.

LostHeliBoy (quote)

"BUT, now I'm watching students come into the marketplace with a sense of entitlement that is misplaced! ".

I am with you on this one it has been one of my pet grouses for years, I want a professional motivated person with good communication skills, who will stay with us, THEY are the front line for OUR business.

We do not want people who think they are owed a living.

 

 

five-hundred E---

 

Yes, the entitlement issue is something that I've seen in many industries. For some reason I can't work in a non service related industry. Correct me if I'm wrong but flying helicopters and especially the ones with passengers or students is a customer service orientated field. Burnt out and pessimistic pilots who can't see the pleasure throught the pressure should relax awhile in the bahamas or where ever to get there edge back .

 

The Kids that feel that 1,000 hrs is to many .. a while ago it was higher and harder to get the time. The industry has momentarily reduced the benchmark because of the percieved shortage of QUALIFIED pilots. The insurance companies, helicopter companies and owners change the hiring perameters, but, on the whole as the Helicopter industry matures the requirements are getting harder and more expensive to achieve.

 

The USA one of the few places that has relatively low time pilots training other pilots, there are exceptions. Most of the other places in the world the instructors are high time almost retired folk that can give you a wealth of knowledge the "no $hit there I was stories" and I learned from that ..

 

In the places where I worked before If it was a comm kitchen or a comm guide position I had to work my way up from the the bottom No short cuts allowed .. I was told and I now know that I have probably flown my last solo hours . and those were the unknown gems.. Yes I'll Deadhead back from a drop or some other work related operation but .. Me flying for me is in the short and expensive list now..

 

So ... Don't rush. enjoy it.

 

---LHB

[rollthbns]

Chop Top

 

Well, I cant claim to be an expert on the industry, but from every indication, the jobs are there. I spent a couple years researching and considering before making the career change, and it is evident that Rotary Wing Pilots are in demand. Let me rephrase that a little bit. Experienced Rotor Wing Pilots are in demand. A total in a log book may or may not indicate experience.

 

At my flight school alone, (Civic Helicopters - Carlsbad, CA) I know 6 people personally who have made the jump from Instructing to the GOM in the short 9 months I have been there. Two of those individuals still instruct when they are not on hitch. A couple of them are already in the S-76. PHI even made a recruiting trip TO the flight school recently. The jobs ARE coming to you on ocassion!

 

The key points that so many people have already made, is that not only do you have to hone your skills in the cockpit, but also in many other areas. Being a professional in any field requires you act accordingly. Communication, service to your customers and yes... to your employer... are key skills you will need to have in order to get, keep, and grow in your job.

 

Remember the hazardous attitudes that you read about during your training for the private license? The material is there for a reason. Those attitudes can lead to unsafe situations in the air, and pink slips from your employer on the ground. And possibly a good old fashoned country ass whippin at the hands of the heros of Vietnam should you refer to them as the enemy. All vets, past present and future DESERVE respect and admiration for their willingness to go do things most of us only read about. And all so that you can have the opportunity to pursue your dreams. Or at least hot chicks as outlined in your post.

 

Anything that is worthwhile takes hard work and dedication. One other item of note, is that you MUST understand the industry is small, and how you conduct yourself will follow you around. Respect for those who have the experience is also very important. You WILL learn from them if you show up with the right attitude. Gomer and Wally both have TONS of experience, and although it might sound harsh sometimes, they are right.

 

Well, that is about all of the rambling that this rookie is capable of today. Fly Safe!