Corporate Flying

[klmmarine]

In prep for my commercial written and oral exams I have come up with a question that my instructor can't answer.

 

Do corporate pilots flying from point a to point b for corporate business fall under part 135 regulations or is there a seperate certificate required for corporate operations with helicopters? If I am reading right it isn't an on demand charter but where does it fall in the FARs?

[nbit]

Corporate flying is part 91, if the company you're flying for owns the aircraft. You're just a pilot for hire... ...So, part 135 doesn't apply. Errr... I'm very surprised your instructor would not know that!

Edited September 13, 2007 by nbit

[klmmarine]

Thanks for the quick reply. Does that mean if I go to work for a construction company, that I can haul company employees and equipment around and do anything related to the company's business? Or if a logging company hires me to fly their helicopter to do long lining?

 

All hypothetical questions but I was just curious.

[nbit]

Thanks for the quick reply. Does that mean if I go to work for a construction company, that I can haul company employees and equipment around and do anything related to the company's business? Or if a logging company hires me to fly their helicopter to do long lining?

 

All hypothetical questions but I was just curious.

 

Sure...

If the construction company owns the aircraft, yes.

If the logging company owns the aircraft and the service is specifically for them, yes. ..However, if you're helping the logging company fulfill some contractual obligation to another party, a "yes" answer most likely would not be the correct answer.... Say they were performing the operation for the USFS, then the answer would probably *not* be 'yes', depending on the scenario... Make sense? Long lining is governed under part 133.

 

Part 135 rules are used if your company owns, leases, or borrows the aircraft, and is providing it as an on-demand service to another party.

Edited September 13, 2007 by nbit

[rick1128]

The legal phrase for it is "holding ones-self out for service'. If the employer offers any sort of public air transportation then they must have an air carrier operating certificate. For the USFS it really depends on what the contract states. Most of their contracts require the operator to have a 135 certificate. However, for things like bucket work or heli-loging, the operator needs to have a Part 133 certificate (external load). As for your question, the service a corporate flight department provides is not offered to the public, even if the corporation bills it's departments for the cost.

[delorean]

Where some companies get in trouble is when setup a ficticious corportation to lease or charter an aircraft to their main corporation for the purposes of tax avoidance and liability (which may make it a 135 operation.) If they're not careful how they word, conduct, and maintain operational control over this, they can get into serious trouble with the IRS or FAA. Aviation lawyers can set this all up so it works, but sometimes--depeding on the situation--you may find a 135 operation within a corporate flight dept.

[Gomer Pylot]

You need another instructor. This is really basic stuff. A CFI who doesn't know the difference between Part 91 and Part 135 is severely deficient in required knowledge.

[klmmarine]

You need another instructor. This is really basic stuff. A CFI who doesn't know the difference between Part 91 and Part 135 is severely deficient in required knowledge.

 

 

My instructors are actually quite competent. I just have a knack for asking questions that really challenge someones on the spot knowledge of the FARs. My question was not intended to besmirch my instructor, it was merely to get an answer to my question. Unless that question is posed of someone they probably will not know the answer off the top of their heads.

[Gomer Pylot]

That's required knowledge for a commercial pilot. Knowing which Part you're operating under is absolutely essential. There are different requirements, and you're solely responsible for complying with them.

[nbit]

I'll have to agree with Gomer P.... That question shouldn't pose a challenge to a competent instructor.

[Wesp]

Your instructor is maybe competent in flying, however are you in the position to judge that as a student pilot? The question you ask is so simple every commercial pilot should know the answer, it's CPL knowledge.

 

Find another instructor fast, who knows what else he does not know

[helonorth]

I think there may have been a miscommunication between asker an askee. Does a corperate flight

necessarily mean company owned and operated thereby falling under Part 91? I don't think we

should call for the instructors head if we weren't there.

[TheLorax]

yeah your instructor must have drain bamage

[Dustin Finan]

In prep for my commercial written and oral exams I have come up with a question that my instructor can't answer.

 

Do corporate pilots flying from point a to point b for corporate business fall under part 135 regulations or is there a seperate certificate required for corporate operations with helicopters? If I am reading right it isn't an on demand charter but where does it fall in the FARs?

 

You can do this under 91. 135 is charter.

[flyingseapig]

The company I work for which caters essentially to the offshore industry is a PT 135 operation. Essentially our company policy is (unwritten but pretty much adhered to) to abide by PT 135 regulations while we have our clients/customers on board and we operate under PT 91 rules while en route to pick up or when the client/customer isn't on board. Not being a lawyer and knowing the FAR is pretty much written by lawyers, I don't know if this is a gray area or not. Does anyone happen to know if we are required to operate under 135 while en route to pick up a custome/client? If anyone knows any specific FAR regulation relating to this or reference please pass it on. It would be nice to know if there is a regulation making this a black and white situation or somewhere in between. I have combed the regs and haven't found any conclusive evidence one way or the other.

[Gomer Pylot]

Technically, the flight to pick up customers is a Part 91 positioning flight. Many operators tell their crews to assume Part 135 all the time, to avoid confusion, but it's their choice. Any time you have customers or cargo onboard, though, it's Part 135. If you get caught trying to apply Part 91 rules there, you're going to have problems. There are lots of things that change, and it can be hard to remember all of them, that's the reason for using 135 all the time. It can be useful to apply Part 91 when you can, though, to get into airports IFR that have no weather reporting, and for some other things. We operate under Part 91 when we have no patients, just the med crew, and it can be useful for getting home after your 14 hour duty day is over, and you have just a few minutes to fly back to base. You have to be careful with it, though.