Turbine Transition

[WillFly4Food]

I am hoping to get some opinions on weather you guys think that paying for a turbine transfer is worth it. I have heard it both ways. Some people say that its not because you're employer will train you the way he wants it done therefore it is not a determining factor for low time jobs. Then there are people that say that its well worth it. It would definately make you more attractive to an employer, but is it worth the $5,000 plus price tag?

 

 

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Matt

[Galadrium]

There are plenty of employers that will train you on turbines for free as long as you have the flight hours. Most places that are looking for pilots with turbine time want hundreds of hours of turbine time, not 10-15.

[Vaqueroaero]

I am hoping to get some opinions on weather you guys think that paying for a turbine transfer is worth it. I have heard it both ways. Some people say that its not because you're employer will train you the way he wants it done therefore it is not a determining factor for low time jobs. Then there are people that say that its well worth it. It would definately make you more attractive to an employer, but is it worth the $5,000 plus price tag?

Thanks a lot,

 

Matt

 

To answer the question :NO!

 

The only 'turbine transition' that means anything is one from the factory (Bell, Eurocopter) and they easily cost double what you suggest. That may help you get into turbines a bit sooner.

 

My advice is that if you have that amount of money burning a hole in your pocket get another rating with it or spend it on building your total time.

 

Nowadays it is very true that an operator who is taking a pilot for an entry level position flying turbines will pay for the training. This is particulalry true in the GOM. They are hiring guys with between 500-1000 hours to act as co-pilots in single engine turbines.

 

Hope that helps.

[Chi-town]

Please, don't waste your time and money on a "turbine transition". At 1,000 hours, you'll get a free transition with the tour companies in the Canyon, GOM, Temsco, etc. I don't know how many hours you currently have, but if you have under 1,000 hours, it won't do you any good. Spend the extra money on an instrument rating if you don't have it yet.

 

Some companies sometimes offer jobs for non-turbine pilots if they go to the factory course on their own dime ($10,000 neighborhood) but I think that is also a bunch of crap. If someone wants to hire you that badly, they will foot the bill for the course. If you are already a CFI, you have spent enough on your training. Don't ever pay to fly again.

 

Not to be a jerk, but your handle also raises my blood pressure because if you are a commercial pilot, you should not be willing to "fly for food". How many Lawyers, Doctors, Trade Professionals like Plumbers and Carpenters offer to work for food?

 

Instruct, get your hours, and go to a company willing to train you.

[Mixmaster]

I am not sure that I completely agree with the premise that a turbine transition is a waste of time. That is similar to saying that it is a waste of money doing a R44 instrument course (to get the Instructors endorsements) and be able to teach in the R44 (which a lot of flight schools require and also lets you do flight seeing and photo work).

While I agree that an employer would most likely want to teach you their way of starting a Turbine, its not like most of them don't just add 3-4 more starts to the minimum number of hours they are required for the 135 ride anyway. For many low timers I think the point is not to waste $5k on 4-5 hours of turbine time (to make themselves feel better) but to stand out from the many other applicants for the open position.

Take a look around, I remember when ERA would wave their 1250 requirement if you had a CFII (was the extra Instrument instructor a waste of money?). I heard (third hand I must admit) that one of the larger canyon operators would hire low timers with R44 time over straight R22/300 pilots, was that extra R44 time a waste? Look at the CFI's who struggle to get work when a CFII is quickly snapped up.

 

What about if your resume is sitting on a desk with 10-20 others (not unusual for an entry level position) and you have 5 hours of 206 time. That may well be enough to get you a call back, plus you might just look like a professional helicopter pilot when you know what your are doing on an interview flight.

In short I would say that a turbine transition is not a waste of money IF you carefully select the right school/ provider who can actually teach you what you need to know, and not just burn some money.

I know that in this industry there are many ways to skin a cat, and I certainly don't have a lock on the best way to do things. So in short good luck.

[Chi-town]

I have to disagree with you, Mixmaster. An R44 transition is part of being able to widen your instructing capabilities (AND a result of the SFAR which essentially turns Robinson helicopters into the only light ships that require a type-rating). After being around and knowing the majority of Canyon operators and pilots in Vegas, I can say that during hiring season it won't matter that you have 5 hours in a 206 (common "transition" aircraft because it's the cheapest) to get hired. If you have 1000 PIC, meet 135 requirements, and don't have any serious personality issues, you will get hired.

 

I never said CFII was a waste so I don't know where that came from. My opinion stems from seeing lots of kids scraping by to pay for their training, then scraping by to survive as a CFI and seeing them get bilked for 5 hours of turbine time that could have spent on a loan payment or food, etc. If they can get the turbine time free, then that's a different story.

 

Also, R44 time hasn't been a factor in hiring pilots with less than 1000 PIC. The time requirement is a TOPS requirement.

[bossman]

I'm not going to get into the argument about whether you should pay for turbine time or not, but I will say that having a variety of helicopters on your resume' is a way to get your foot in the door with a lot of commercial operators. I've seen pilots with 600 hours get SIC positions in the gulf. The reason they were looked at was that they had experience with a variety of aircraft. Being able to operate different aircraft demonstrates versitility and a willingness to do different things. The comfort level builds with time. When you get comfortable with the machine you fly you get better acquainted with the sounds and feel. The helicopter will, most of the time, let you know if something needs looking into. Knowing the feel of different aircraft also adds to the comfort level. You have to watch out when you fly different aircraft, always use the checklist when you go from one to the other. So I say get as much time as you can, in as many different aircraft as you can, turbine or piston. It can only make you a better pilot down the road.

bossman

[Mixmaster]

Sorry Chi-town, just got to rambling a bit. I was not trying to say that you felt that a CFII was a waste, just that I have met many CFI's who wished they did their CFII as others got jobs ahead of them because they had a CFII.

I am glad that you agree with me that the R44 time is useful in terms of gaining a R44 instruction (usually instrument) position, and that some schools also do some photo flight, etc in the R44, thus making the extra money spent useful.

Further more I also agree with you that there are some schools that offer a turbine transition that is nothing more than revenue generation for the owner (so they have a 206 to fly when they want) and time building for the instructor, that is why I suggested carefully selecting a school that will teach you what you need not rip you off. (Western Ops, ETC)

I still stand by my position that having the extras (CFII, R44 time, 300 time, Some turbine time) will help you move ahead of other applicants with the same total time for the job.

I can only speek of my experience and what friends have told me about their experiences. When it came time for me to move on from instruction the R44 time and the turbine time I had were mentioned by the CP's at the interviews I had. They in fact got me the interview in the first place at one company, and the interview flight sold the deal.

I did not know about the Tops requirement ( actually forgot) in the canyon, but did have one friend who went to Temsco with Less than a grand, (so he said) but in the Gulf where I went first, R44 time is a BIG help as many operators down there use the Jetbox for their interview aircraft, and the R44 is very similar in its basic flight characteristics to the 206, helps make you look not like a fool.

I will finish by again saying, "I know that in this industry there are many ways to skin a cat, and I certainly don't have a lock on the best way to do things. So in short good luck."

There are many paths to walk, just choose the one that suits you best.

Fly Safe

BEN

[WillFly4Food]

Thank you all for your imput. It is good to hear that a TT is not "mandatory" becuase I couldn't afford one if it was.

 

Our chief pilot flies a Long Ranger and he showed me the start up procedure this morning. We flew down to mid field got some gas and then he dropped me off.

 

I'll keep plugging along in the 300 until I get enough time to be marketable.

 

 

 

Thanks again,

Matt