B204 lifting capacity?

[FinR]

Hello,

 

I'd like to get some views/ opinions/ information from Bell 204 pilots out there. I'm not looking for datasheets or factory specs (google is easy to use even for an average pilot ), but what it is capable of doing in the "real world".

 

So the question is about hookloads. Let's say ISA +10c and close to sea level, what is B204 capable of lifting if there's 1hour of fuel but not much equipment or other personnel except pilot of course? What are the weak points, if any (is there any particular problems when 204 is used for lifting big loads extensively)? Parts that are breaking up more often than usual when used as a lifting machine? Anything else that might become a problem in the long run...?

 

Thanx in advance for any info from Huey flyers or others who have personal experience or other good information.

 

FinR

[FinR]

Bump.

 

There must be someone out there who has experience of B204 in lifting work...

Edited October 30, 2007 by FinR

[Eric Hunt]

The 204 is an old UH-1B in civilian clothes?

 

Which engine you got? L-9 or L-11?

 

They were never much of a lifter when we used them in the air force, but we had 2 pilots and a crewy on board. I recall it was OK for about 1000 lb, though the hook was stressed for 4000 lb. Add 400 lb for dumping the extra people, and you got about 1400 lb. But this is relying on a memory from 40 years ago....

[FinR]

Hello,

 

Thanks Eric. Yes, 204 is a civilian UH-1B.

 

Looks like it's capable of much less than i expected I thought it would at least lift the same as 350b3...

 

Thanks for the info, much appreciated!

[heligeir]

On a good day a 204 with the L-11 engine should should be able to lift a little more than the B3 does. The B3 gets in the air with about 1300 kgs in the hook doesn't it? A 204 should manage 1400-1500 kgs at sea level on a cool day. The 204 would be way more sensitive to temperature and altitude than the B3 is though. The tail rotor is pretty weak on the ones with the forward blade going down, so you might experience problems with tail rotor authority when doing heavy lifts with the 204. There are kits for putting the tail rotor on the other side though, so that the forward blade is going up.

Besides, the 204 is way better looking than the B3 :-)

[SuperF]

i would match a 204 against a B3 any day of the week, anywhere at those alts and temps.

 

depending on the machine that you have. the 204 is a slightly better lifter than the UH1B as the B has a short tail boom and short blades. 44' system. the 204 and UH1F have the same 48' system as the 205.

 

Any 204, UH1B etc will do 1800 kg with a good pilot most of the time. problem is lifting those weights you will break up your ship.

 

The big problem with a 204 i guess is the -11 engine can run out of temp as you get above about 20-30* which is why you go for the -13 engine with 1400 hp. Not sure if that is certified for the 204 but you can put it into the B and we have even STc a T53-13 into our UH1F helicopters which originally come with a GE engine. The good thing with the -11 was you could never break the xmsn as it could handle more than the engine would give, with the -13 you can over trq the xmsn, and screw all your drive train...$$$$ down the drain.

 

we work mainly up to 3000' up to 25* and pick up 3000 lbs, about 1400 kg all day every day average about 20 turns / hr when on the job. normal fuel run is half hr then sit and wait about 5 min for trucks to re org, refuel the heli, then another half hour, etc. if you were just doing a single lift then go to fly you would be able to get right up to 1800 kg off and going, but will be slow to start with, maybe 70kts. 1400 kg up and off at however fast the load will go up to about 90kts max.

 

We try to limit all lifts to 1600 kg, and get right down on gas, as low as the job will allow us, with one off lifts out to 1800 kg if we really have to but then running the 200lb/20min minimum fuel plus 50 lbs usable fuel. only for really close quick jobs. remember 10lbs of fuel /min, so you drain the tank a bit quicker than a B3

 

depending on if you want, or need civil or ex mil, there are heaps of mods/STc's that you can do to your ships to help them lift more easily. i think that there are more mods for the ex mil ships, we don't run any civil 204's, they are all ex mil as we do about 90% hook work.

 

A 204 with a -13 engine will out lift a 205 with a -13 engine. they are all the same running gear on a lighter ship, somehow according to the book, the 205 which is 1000lbs heavier empty, can pick up 5000 lbs on the hook while the 204 can only do 4000 lbs. doesn't make any sence to me. where the 205 wins is that there are a lot of STC's to add -17/703 engine, 212 MR blades, Tail boom and TR drive, hud blades etc, to handle all that extra power it can put through. then once you get into hot and high conditions it will start to eat the 204. also the 205 is a stronger ship, bigger main stringers, shorter Tail boom etc.

 

biggest problem with the 204 is heavy loads, when placing them, or logging!! will break the airframe, boom, best to run a 212 42, and start loading up with 212 controls, collective levers, scissors, stab bar etc. not sure how much can be done on the 204 in this way. withlots of heavy lifting you will also start to break the cabin around the pilots doors, and the tailboom loves to try to fall off. make sure you get the heavy duty Tail boom attachment points, and check the bolts everyday for movement. the original attachment points could probably handle the early engines but they aren't up to the job now.

 

Also need to locate the batteries in the nose, if they are not already there, and even then the machine will be really ass heavy, you wll just about put the stinger on the ground when taking off. if too ass heavy you will also start breaking up 5th mounts. if you go logging you will break the 5th mount beam faster than the engineer can replace them.

 

T/R isn't too much of a problem and fly it from the side that it was actually designed to be flowen from. The LEFT. Bell didn't figure it out when they built the things, but Hughes sure as hell did. All Bell are built to be flown from the left, as you pull full power, leaning out the door you can let the helicopter turn 90* to where you want to go, the tail hangs right out into all that good clean air and actually takes less power, rather than i guess trying to hold full left pedal to try to see where you are going.

 

We also run JR's and have had our certified for LH operations since about 1977, as they are soooo much easier to fly from that side.

 

If i can give you any more info just email me, I'll see if i can help.

 

Boy i can go on when someone asks about my favourite topic 204's.....

[FinR]

Heligeir,

 

A 204 should manage 1400-1500 kgs at sea level on a cool day.

That's close to what i thought it would lift. It's more than B3 yes, but 204 also burns much more fuel and costs more to maintain... Thanks for the info.

Besides, the 204 is way better looking than the B3 :-)

In that i completely disagree

 

SuperF,

 

It's fantastic to get a response from someone who seems to have tons of experience on the subject. All the info is very much appreciated.

 

The 204 in question is with -11 engine and it's actually Agusta-made version, AB204. I was told before that it would lift 1,8 tons repeatedly and it sounded a bit optimistic

 

FinR