Qualifications

[Sparks]

Once you are a fully trained pilot, with the required hours for any particular job, are other qualifications necessary?

 

How much will having a diploma in this or a degree in that, help you get a job? And are there any jobs which you HAVE to have other qualifications?

 

Sparks.

[southernweyr]

Airborn Law Enforcement Unit (ALEU) generally requires you to be a sworn officer.

 

Forest Service work requires OAS carding but I don't know much about that.

 

Some jobs require an A&P license.

 

I don't know of any heli jobs that require a degree unless it's the Coast Gaurd.

[Sparks]

Airborn Law Enforcement Unit (ALEU) generally requires you to be a sworn officer.

 

Forest Service work requires OAS carding but I don't know much about that.

 

Some jobs require an A&P license.

 

I don't know of any heli jobs that require a degree unless it's the Coast Gaurd.

So would you say that going to college or university, is unecessary for flying? Im just asking because i have done a year at college now and i am thinking about leaving and getting a full time job so i can start training. I will obtain a qualification from the first year, not a good one, but one none the less.

[Gomer Pylot]

It's up to each employer to decide what qualifications are required for each job. Some employers may prefer, or require, a degree. Some may, and often do, require many more hours than the FAA minimums. Some may require an ATP and/or a first-class medical. Having a degree certainly won't hurt, whether it's required or not.

[Sparks]

It's up to each employer to decide what qualifications are required for each job. Some employers may prefer, or require, a degree. Some may, and often do, require many more hours than the FAA minimums. Some may require an ATP and/or a first-class medical. Having a degree certainly won't hurt, whether it's required or not.

Having a degree or diploma applying for any job probably wont hurt. I am just thinking that if it isnt required in 90% of flying jobs and it means that i will be earning money quicker and thus flying quicker, i shouldnt bother?

[Copterpilot213]

Having a degree would be VERY useful in your long-term life in my opinion. Suppose your hand gets cut off? What if you become insulin dependant? Lose an eye? etc. There are a lot of things that can happen to pilots to make them unable to get a 2nd class medical certificate. It'd be great to have a degree to fall back on.

[slick1537]

If I were you I would go to school for another year and get a 2 year degree since you are already half way there then you can begin your venture into the pilot world.

[southernweyr]

It is good to use caution but don't make decisions out of fear. I have 2 years of college and I am still trying to figure out if they helped me at all. I am sure they did in some way or another, but I have not had any employer care one bit whether or not I had a degree. Of course if I had a mechanical engineering degree with aeronautics involved that might be a different story. So unless you are going to work for a manufacturer, it probably won't affect your resume too much. I am sure there will be many opinions posted but you have to ask yourself what you feel is right for you. If it's right to start your training sooner and start working as a helicopter pilot sooner then it probably won't do any good to spend time in a school that isn't equipping you for the career that you want to pursue. I would say from all of the jobs that I see posted on a regular basis there are maybe 2% that require more than a pilot's license. Some manufacturers require test pilot school and perhaps an engineering degree. Other than that I can't think of anything that I haven't mentioned. If anybody knows of others feel free to give an example.

[Sparks]

Thanks Southernweyr, that helped a lot. I am currently doing an Aeronautical Engineering Diploma so it is related but not essential. I just really REALLY dont want to do it anymore and part of me is thinking "just do it" the other is "its my life, do what you WANT to do". I know that might be a bit dramatic for a year of college but it could be a year more im flying, doing what i love.

 

As you say, if anyone else can post an example or anything else that will help me decide.

 

It would be good if people could look at it from both sides rather than the more generic "stay in school" thing

[Sparker]

I dropped out of college and now I wish I had stuck it out.

 

My opinion is if your started, then do it. Sometimes the easiest thing isn't the best.... Now I won't finish college until I'm 30... and I do think it makes a huge difference in life, even if it doesn't make much difference in your job.

 

If you get a degree you will never say "Man, I should have dropped out so I could fly sooner!"

 

Good luck.

[Sparks]

I dropped out of college and now I wish I had stuck it out.

 

My opinion is if your started, then do it. Sometimes the easiest thing isn't the best.... Now I won't finish college until I'm 30... and I do think it makes a huge difference in life, even if it doesn't make much difference in your job.

 

If you get a degree you will never say "Man, I should have dropped out so I could fly sooner!"

 

Good luck.

Fair point. What about a lesser qualification like i will get? I mean, what im in college doing is still a basic course designed to get me into the industry and the bottom level, or to go on to further training.

[Sparker]

Fair point. What about a lesser qualification like i will get? I mean, what im in college doing is still a basic course designed to get me into the industry and the bottom level, or to go on to further training.

 

I think you will still be glad you did it. I would be happier right now even if I had a associates, especially if you have loans. I paid my student loan for 2 years and have nothing to show for it.

[Sparks]

I think you will still be glad you did it. I would be happier right now even if I had a associates, especially if you have loans. I paid my student loan for 2 years and have nothing to show for it.

My course is free so i have no loans, so i wont lose anything money wise. If in 5 years i wanted to do the last year again it would only cost £1000 to do, which isnt a huge expense.

[IFLY]

How about computer skills? Do employers want technical skills as well?

[joker]

Good thread - Some wise advice here.

 

I have always said on this board, that some sort of other vocation or training in life is important. Not only does it open options in the future, it also allows you to sample more of the world around you.

 

Gaining a college education does require some self-discipline in the US system, where dropping out seems to be acceptable. Especially in today's work climate where people are inticed by 'quick easy' money. The problem is that it usually doesn't happen. You mentioned your training is one which only equips you to 'start at the bottom of the industry'. Sorry, that's where most people start! So continuing college education to completion also shows a little 'staying power'; that you can focus your mind on a task / goal and see it through. Ask yourself honestly, what it is that makes you want to drop out. Then ask yourself how you might cope with those same feelings in anything you try.

 

I have 2 years of college and I am still trying to figure out if they helped me at all.

 

Of course, it depends what your college is in!

 

It would be good if people could look at it from both sides rather than the more generic "stay in school" thing.

 

I don't know what you mean by this. It sounds like you have made your mind up not to listen already.

 

In that case, our advice will not help, so go with your gut feeling.

 

Joker

[southernweyr]

I have always said on this board, that some sort of other vocation or training in life is important. Not only does it open options in the future, it also allows you to sample more of the world around you.

 

Of course, it depends what your college is in!

 

 

Of course, I did get to do the sampling thing and found out what I wanted to do. So, if that's all I got from the two years then it was well worth the time and money spent. I also learned a little about life while at college.

[Sparks]

Good thread - Some wise advice here.

 

I have always said on this board, that some sort of other vocation or training in life is important. Not only does it open options in the future, it also allows you to sample more of the world around you.

 

Gaining a college education does require some self-discipline in the US system, where dropping out seems to be acceptable. Especially in today's work climate where people are inticed by 'quick easy' money. The problem is that it usually doesn't happen. You mentioned your training is one which only equips you to 'start at the bottom of the industry'. Sorry, that's where most people start! So continuing college education to completion also shows a little 'staying power'; that you can focus your mind on a task / goal and see it through. Ask yourself honestly, what it is that makes you want to drop out. Then ask yourself how you might cope with those same feelings in anything you try.

Of course, it depends what your college is in!

I don't know what you mean by this. It sounds like you have made your mind up not to listen already.

 

In that case, our advice will not help, so go with your gut feeling.

 

Joker

 

Ok, thanks for posting. Although it may seem that way, i havent made up my mind yet. I am really honesty 50/50 at this stage.

 

What makes me want to drop out? Flying. I sat through the whole last year thinking the same thing but not being bothered to think about seriously dropping out. Now, i need to stop wasting my time and get on with what i want to do.

 

Again, this must sound like i have made my mind up, but its like doing a physics degree if you want to be a toilet cleaner. Yes, you will be a more qualified toilet cleaner but why waste your time doing physics when you could be doing a cleaning degree.

 

Im very frustrated, confused and the rest of it. I just need to hear what people have to say to formulate my choice.

[LB11]

I would have to agree with them, if you can find the drive to finish college, then thats what I would suggest.

 

You may also be able to get a better job after college and save the money up faster.

 

Try taking a few flying lessons here and there while in college. Maybe that will keep you happy enough to finish school.

[Sparker]

Try taking a few flying lessons here and there while in college. Maybe that will keep you happy enough to finish school.

 

BOO-YA! Best idea so far! If the school is free, you should be able to scrape up enough for a couple hours of flight here and there.

[IFLY]

I'm part way through my Masters and I stopped to get all my ratings before I go back and finish it. A degree of 2 years or better opens many more doors than you would have available without it. If you go to McDonalds to get a job you at least get to tell other people to flip the burgers.

[heligirl03]

Try taking a few flying lessons here and there while in college. Maybe that will keep you happy enough to finish school.

 

I have a 4yr degree in a scientific discipline, I pay on my undergraduate loans while paying on my training loans now 5yrs later. I don't regret it. Employers in any field see a degree (on any level) as staying power, focus, commitment, etc. Also, it gives you critical thinking skills that you will not learn elsewhere. Also, networking. One more year of school will not hamper your flying career one bit, it will show you have determination and mature/realistic plans of attaining your goals. And if you do your private while in school (totally do-able), you will be ready to hit the ground running when you graduate, knowing you've done the best you can to fully equip yourself for any job market, especially the future.

 

Stay in school, fly part time for a year, then giddyup.

[joker]

its like doing a physics degree if you want to be a toilet cleaner. Yes, you will be a more qualified toilet cleaner but why waste your time doing physics when you could be doing a cleaning degree.

 

After many years, you will be a great toilet cleaner. You'll get there quicker than your mates for sure. But that's all you'll be - a toilet cleaner.

 

Then your boss, tells you he wants to revolutionise toilet cleaning, and has a huge budget to develop some new toilet cleaning machine.

 

Unfortunately, your friend who went to physics school gets to lead the project. He gets the glory and the money.

 

Meanwhile, you are still only 'a very good toilet cleaner'.

 

We can go round and round on this arguement. It may be generic, but my view is clear. I see some great pilots in my job, but that is all they are: great pilots. They don't have a clue about the world around them.

 

I like the McDonald's analogy above too.

 

I guess I was brought up in a place and at a time where 'dropping out' was seen as a failure.

 

Joker

[southernweyr]

Who says that going to college is the only way to become a great physicist, engineer, or inventor? Check out Dr. Moller http://www.moller.com/video7.htm he has a PHD in engineering and he has never taken an undergraduate course in anything. OF COURSE he is an outstanding example but there is more than one way to become more than just a "great pilot."

 

I am not opposed to college or the idea of attending college. I believe people should use the best available tools to get the education that they want so they will have the skills and the knowledge to be able to do what they want. If the best tool is college then that's fine, however do not limit yourself to one venue or another. Just because some one is not in college does not mean they "dropped out" of learning and advancing their education.

 

For so long, colleges and universities have told their students that they are some how better than the average civilian and that they are a failure if they don't graduate college. However, they are in sales just as anyone else is. They have to sell the idea that you will be a better person when you get done, otherwise they would have no customers (students). Those who have graduated college have been indoctrinated with this idea and sometimes they don't even realize it.

[joker]

This will be my last post on this subject. As I said, we can go round and round without getting anywhere. I guess my view is multifacted.

 

To summarise then:

 

Who says that going to college is the only way to become a great physicist, engineer, or inventor?

 

OK, my parable was not meant to be taken literally. You will see that it was in fact a retort, simply using Sparks' originial analogy. The moral of that is not that 'college is the only way to become a great physicist'. No, the moral is meant to suggest something like, 'He who broadens his mind will broaden his horizons.' I fully agree that there are plenty of non-collegiate ways of doing so.

 

I am not trying to take anything away from those who do not attend a tertiary education. Nor am I saying it is the only way to succede in life or necessarily the right way for everyone.

 

I read so many posts of people 'changing their careers' and / or wanting to become helicopter pilots without having solidified themselves in something they have started already. It seems the work ethic has changed over the last few years. Long apprenticeships are a thing of the past. People are looking for quick money. People are jumping from one career to the other as soon as they get bored. I wonder why people start a venture in the first place. Is there real serious thought put in before starting college these days? Is there real serious committment? If not, then what is to say that it won't be the same case just a couple of years down the line in the new chosen industry - helicopters? That's what I warn against.

 

If at the end of the day, the college life is not for Sparks', then go for it. Just make the decision carefully (as he is doing), rather then on a whim, because he is bored.

 

For so long, colleges and universities have told their students that they are some how better than the average civilian....Those who have graduated college have been indoctrinated with this idea and sometimes they don't even realize it.

 

This is a very rich statement / paragraph. Of course, the quality of one's college education is an important factor here. Of course, the amount of effort put in will determine how useful that has been. That being said, you compare a man without college education, and one that has. OK, they may both have the same potential to reach great heights at the beginning, and indeed some college students throw away their experience so that it is essentially worthless. In the chosen field though, I am sure that the one who went to college (so long as it was a quality experience he had) is 'better' than the one without. Who would you like doing your brain surgery? The doctor who went to medical school or the 'self-taught average civilian? Come on.

 

(Regarding the college thing, maybe there is a difference in our understanding of the word 'college'. Certainly, when I think of college, I think of university / degree level. Maybe you are talking about a different level of education. Say, a halfway-house between secondary school and university. This could be a contributor to our difference in the value of a 'college' education.)

 

So, there it is. The 'broadening of horizons', the 'demonstration of good work ethics', the 'solidifying of a career base and maintaining of options', the 'self-satisfaction of seeing something through to completion'...these are all reasons why my advice to Sparks would be to consider very carefully persuing a college education before jumping to flight training.

 

Regards,

 

Joker

 

Edited post - Spark's post below:

 

Sparks: I said that I wouldn't add any more to this thread. However, just to let you know, my advice is geared to all aspiring helicopter pilots, who might not take such care to make what is quite a hefty decision as you have. By the maturity of your posts, I can see that you have thought this out carefully. The care that you have taken in your posts, both content and presentaiton has shown this, and has deserved and yeilded some equally mature replies and advice from all. Good luck to you in whatever you do. Maybe our blades will cross in the future. (Hopefully not literally!)

Edited November 4, 2007 by joker

[Sparks]

Right, i would just like to point out that it is infact Sparks not Sparker here, a bit confusing i know

 

Anyway... I could sit here, as most 17 year olds would and bitch about what everyone is saying, because they are not saying what i want to hear. I wont however because i believe that i am more mature than that and mature enough to know that only I can decide whilst others can only help ME to decide. Instead i want to thank you all, joker and southerweyr in particular for your replies and very helpful advice.

 

As you pointed out joker, yes we are talking of different colleges here and you are right in the assumption of it being in between secondary school and universty. I am not studying for a degree, it is not what i want to do, so i certainly would have thought more about it if it was the case. I am currently doing a national diploma, the choice made when i was 15, when i probably was more than anything persuaded to take it. So, this may make the topic a lot less serious now but what has been said and offered is VERY useful advice for myself and anyone else in a similar situation.

 

I completly understand points raised about wanting quick money and questioning my committment to anything but please please understand that it is my committment to doing a job that i want to do that will influence my final decisions. Also, if i was out for a quick buck, i wouldnt be considering helicopters now would I?

 

Now, i have decided but please try to understand my choice was not already made before starting this thread, nor was it influenced heavily from this thread. This thread, as useful as it was just helped me make the choice that is BEST FOR ME

 

I have decided not to continue with my college course. For those of you who are thinking that i have made an irrational decision, i assure you i havent. If you are for lack of a better word, disapointed, so be it and i can only hope that i can prove that my decision was the right one for me.

 

I will now be making advances for a full time income and start my ppl...well, tomorrow i suppose. I have managed to save up $7000 whilst in full time education so i have a good starting point. Thank you all again for the advice and i mean that. This forum has helped me a lot over the last year or so and i will be around more now to further my learning and annoy the hell outta ya'll. (see i have already learnt how to speak American )