High timers would you have done something else

[299215]

I’m seeking advice from high time pilots who have been in the industry for 5, 10, plus years. I keep reading posts by other pilots that make the helicopter career path sound like pure hell. Really poor pay, terrible working conditions, jobs are really hard to find, fellow employees are hard to get along with, and in general it’s an area people should avoid. I realize that nothing in life is handed to you on a silver platter and you have to sacrifice a lot of hard work, time and patience before things start to materialize. Especially a helicopter career! I feel I get a bias response when I ask my instructors or the owner of my flight school their opinion about the helo industry so I’m seeking pilots who have been doing this for some time now. If you could do it all over again would you still be flying helicopters or is there another route you would have followed? I wonder if it is just the people that are really unhappy who like to express their opinion while the happy and satisfied stays silent?

 

Thanks for your time.

[Sparker]

Fry?

 

 

hahahaha... I shouldn't say that.

 

Edit-

 

Now that I have time, I would like to contribute something that may be considered helpful.

 

When I was first interested in helicopters, I got in touch with the chief EMS Pilot at the regional trauma center and "interviewed" him. He seemed to be extremely happy with his jobs in the industry, although he did get "AIDS" and warned me that my wife had better be on board 100%... He said he wouldn't give up flying for anything. Of course he had his complaints, downtime and boredom.... but when he took me out to the pad he couldn't stop smiling, he let me hop in the bird and I couldn't keep a straight face. It's a Sikorsky S-76A++ and was previously owned by the Sultan of Brunei. Do a Google search on 'sultan of Brunei' and there are tons of news results of yachts and helos this guy has handed down. Funny......

 

The owner and FI seem bias and maybe they are, but it could be that they really love their job. There are miserable people in every industry. You need to decide if you love it, and nobody should be able to convince you otherwise.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Sparker

[palmfish]

I’m seeking advice from high time pilots who have been in the industry for 5, 10, plus years. I keep reading posts by other pilots that make the helicopter career path sound like pure hell. Really poor pay, terrible working conditions, jobs are really hard to find, fellow employees are hard to get along with, and in general it’s an area people should avoid. I realize that nothing in life is handed to you on a silver platter and you have to sacrifice a lot of hard work, time and patience before things start to materialize. Especially a helicopter career! I feel I get a bias response when I ask my instructors or the owner of my flight school their opinion about the helo industry so I’m seeking pilots who have been doing this for some time now. If you could do it all over again would you still be flying helicopters or is there another route you would have followed? I wonder if it is just the people that are really unhappy who like to express their opinion while the happy and satisfied stays silent?

 

Thanks for your time.

 

You could go to college for 4 or 5 years and get an engineering degree. That would cost you $40K or $80K + (depending on the school) and then when you graduate, you could get an entry-level engineering job that pays maybe $60K/year.

 

Doctors are in school for 8+ years and often graduate med school with over $100K in debts. A starting doctor can expect to make maybe $120K to $160K/year depending on specialty.

 

So, paying for helicopter flight training and then entering the job market is not quite the doom and gloom prospect that some people would have you believe. Sure, there are exceptions, but like any career, if you are determined and committed to succeed, you can do it, and within a few years, be earning a good living working in a field you love.

 

Caveat: I think a lot of people get attracted to the romance of being a pilot (both fixed and rotary wing) but once they actually begin training, learn that it's actually a lot of hard work and long hours. Flying can be a fun, challenging, and rewarding career, but make no mistake, it's a job. I think the advice of some posters to "pay as you go" during your training is very wise because many students learn the hard way that flying is a lot more than throwing a white scarf around your neck and leaping into the wild blue.

 

I cannot speak about the civilian flight training to job market journey from personal experience (I went the military to civil service route). However, many of my peers did pay out of pocket over a period of time to get their ratings, and are now flying all kinds of impressive machines (from MD-920 and Bell 412's to King Air 350's and Citation jets) and earning a 6-figure salary.

 

In my experience, if you want it badly enough and are willing to make the sacrifices necessary to succeed, then you have a good shot at success.

[ADRidge]

I'm not a high-timer by any means, but stay away from "that other forum" as much as possible while you're still forming an opinion about the helicopter industry. It can have a tendency to bring you down more than a little.

[299215]

That's funny! You know "the other forum" where I was doing some reading, because I was! It seems like a lot of the guys that are doing the complaining have been around for a while though. It's just so hard to make a valid decision and I realize nobody, but oneself can make the decision. I do think it's important to talk to some pilots that have been down the road because they are your best bet for a valid response to questions regarding the industry. I want to hear it all. I thought I did plenty of research before training, but now that I'm halfway though training I don't feel I did enough. I love and enjoy it and believe it's going to be a "good" life long challenge, but there seems to be a lot of uncertainties that follow. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I don't feel helicopter training is comparable to college, or a college degree is comparable to helicopter training….however you want to look at it. The reason I say that is because aviation is a specialized training where as a college degree may be specialized, but is still rather broad and covers lots of different subjects. Say in ten years you decide you don't want to fly anymore then what do you fall back on? Do you start from square one? This is an open-ended question because I don't know the answer. I suppose if you have a college degree that would be a good safety blanket.

 

Cheers and thanks for your input.

[BOATFIXERGUY]

Would do it again....

 

As stated above, any career choice you have to start at the bottom and work up. Even the Walmart greeter...

[flyingseapig]

I’m seeking advice from high time pilots who have been in the industry for 5, 10, plus years. I keep reading posts by other pilots that make the helicopter career path sound like pure hell. Really poor pay, terrible working conditions, jobs are really hard to find, fellow employees are hard to get along with, and in general it’s an area people should avoid. I realize that nothing in life is handed to you on a silver platter and you have to sacrifice a lot of hard work, time and patience before things start to materialize. Especially a helicopter career! I feel I get a bias response when I ask my instructors or the owner of my flight school their opinion about the helo industry so I’m seeking pilots who have been doing this for some time now. If you could do it all over again would you still be flying helicopters or is there another route you would have followed? I wonder if it is just the people that are really unhappy who like to express their opinion while the happy and satisfied stays silent?

 

Thanks for your time.

 

You need to look at it as a job, and as with any job in any industry you will always hear people complaining about pay and not getting along with fellow peers. I am flying and getting paid well enough to live comfortably with my wife and 3 kids. By all means we are not making tons of cash, but we are also not living off food stamps or other government assistance by far. Look at it as a job because you never know when you will have to search for antother one. I know a guy who just got his ticket pulled because he didn't pass his medical, now he is unemployed, looking for a job and receiving minimal assistance for disability. I am enjoying it and would definitely rather be doing nothing else.

[Phil77]

I'm no high timer myself but I enjoy living (and flying) in the area with probably the highest helicopter density (and aviation in general for that matter) in the states: NYC.

Almost every day I talk to my fellow colleagues and I hear no regret at all! Doesn't matter if they fly HEMS, charter, corporate, ENG or tours nobody told me he would've done anything different! Maybe you hear complaints about long hours and boredom at one or the other job, but show me any job where everything is sugarcoated and perfect!?!

 

I don't know who those people are who are posting in that "other forum" but they apparently need to vent their frustration somewhere (what they are frustrated about I don't know - and honestly don't care). I find it curious though, that they are still interested enough in their profession to get on a specialized helicopter forum just to talk (or better: bitch) about the job they pretend to hate so much!?

 

Compensation: I guess its what you want to do for a living: prefer to fly offshore? how about $50k for a start? not bad at all (the fixed wing guys with the same experience - 1000-1500 hours - are flying commuter turboprops for $20k and less!)! Fly corporate after having done everything else... $100k+ is not a problem (actually if you are fortunate enough to get on with those S76 drivers out of Trenton, NJ for example, you could be looking at $150-200k!). Believe it or not even those guys mostly love what they're doing. I would too, for that kind of money!

[Autorotator]

I question my decision to join this profession everyday. I could have been a truck driver with a lot less stress and make the same amount, if not more.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am proud of what I do and the dedication it took to get to this point, but if I could go back in time and change my decision, I would.

[299215]

Autorotator, out of curiosity why would you have done something different, what don’t you care for, and what type of work are you doing?

 

Cheers!

[BOATFIXERGUY]

I've thought of that truck driver career in the past also. Many of the drivers I know make a really good living. They didn't incur $70k + in debt either to get it.

 

But....I quickly forget that when I pull pitch! Even though there have been times when I'm tired of flying, NOTHING beats it!

 

p.s. And driving down the interstate sucks! I drove 36,000 miles last year dragging the helicopter to events....not a good time.

[Autorotator]

Autorotator, out of curiosity why would you have done something different, what don’t you care for, and what type of work are you doing?

 

Cheers!

Debt, relocation, debt, not living where I want to, debt, and other personal reasons.

 

Corporate flying.

[Crusty Old Dude]

I'm not a high-timer by any means, but stay away from "that other forum" as much as possible while you're still forming an opinion about the helicopter industry. It can have a tendency to bring you down more than a little.

I'm going to second that one. I was not impressed.

[Crusty Old Dude]

Debt, relocation, debt, not living where I want to, debt, and other personal reasons.

 

Corporate flying.

auto -

 

if you could have done it and without debt, then what would your opinion be?

[ADRidge]

That's funny! You know "the other forum" where I was doing some reading, because I was! It seems like a lot of the guys that are doing the complaining have been around for a while though. It's just so hard to make a valid decision and I realize nobody, but oneself can make the decision. I do think it's important to talk to some pilots that have been down the road because they are your best bet for a valid response to questions regarding the industry. I want to hear it all. I thought I did plenty of research before training, but now that I'm halfway though training I don't feel I did enough. I love and enjoy it and believe it's going to be a "good" life long challenge, but there seems to be a lot of uncertainties that follow. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I don't feel helicopter training is comparable to college, or a college degree is comparable to helicopter training….however you want to look at it. The reason I say that is because aviation is a specialized training where as a college degree may be specialized, but is still rather broad and covers lots of different subjects. Say in ten years you decide you don't want to fly anymore then what do you fall back on? Do you start from square one? This is an open-ended question because I don't know the answer. I suppose if you have a college degree that would be a good safety blanket.

 

Cheers and thanks for your input.

 

Well, I think the thing about that forum is the total anonymity really lets people say things they might not otherwise say. Some do have genuine gripes, some are just trying to stir up dust. I've talked to a couple of high-time helicopter pilots, and while they do have the standard gripes about time away from home, pissy clients, bad management, sometimes shoddy mx, bad wx, whatever.... they've got the time now to do what they want, and the ones I've talked to have taken the chance to rise above being "just another grunt" on the flight line.

 

As a low-timer, I fully plan on finishing some kind of college degree part time, given that I'm only about 50 credit hours away... just in case the medical runs out or I find out ten years from now that I hate flying (not likely), but I also plan on making the best career decisions possible and taking every chance I can to improve my day to day life so that my future family doesn't have to suffer like some pilots' families do.

 

Even at my low time, I'd advise any prospective student to have a plan, have a backup plan, and have an alternate backup. And maybe a plan of last resort, as well.

[Skids Up]

I’m seeking advice from high time pilots who have been in the industry for 5, 10, plus years. I keep reading posts by other pilots that make the helicopter career path sound like pure hell. Really poor pay, terrible working conditions, jobs are really hard to find, fellow employees are hard to get along with, and in general it’s an area people should avoid

 

 

6 years maintenance, 30 years flying, 12,000 + hrs, - wouldn't change a thing.

 

Have been to a lot of really neat places, and a few that I hope to never see again. Met some people that were great, some that weren't. Great thing is: I don't have to work with the some that weren't unless I choose to.

 

Stress?? I personally would hate to spend every day wondering if the next driver coming at me was: drunk, stoned, tired, mad at spouse, kids, boss etc, or just wasn't paying attention to his life.

 

Life is what you make it, not what someone else says it has to be.

 

Make your choice and be careful of what "free advice" you listen to. You usually get what you pay for...

[Eric Hunt]

How many jobs are there where you get paid for doing your hobby? Not many like this one.

 

Started 40 years ago, applied for the first job, then after that each new job was offered to me and i accepted.

 

Have folded the wings now after 13,000 hrs and enjoying living 4 minutes from the beach.

[Autorotator]

auto -

 

if you could have done it and without debt, then what would your opinion be?

To be honest, I don't know. I wish I would have really thought about where this career might lead me and so on. The debt is a big factor, but not the only as I stated before. I do think that if someone is serious about getting into this field, that they spend some time (maybe years) to save up as much as possible to pay as they go. It is such a huge burden to try to pay a loan payment on a instructors salary, and even moving to the next step to the GOM or tours.

 

While working my way through school, I got AIDS (aviation induced divorse syndrome) which caused even more finacial stress. I have made two moves since starting my career and now I live quite a distance from my daughter which I rarely get to see. There are just a lot of factors I didn't forsee. I'm not crying about it, or asking for anyones sympathy (otherwise I would have been writing this a few years ago) just putting my story out there.

 

A really good friend of mine working for one of the majors in the GOM, tells me that I am certainly not the only one that questions my career choice.

 

To Skids Up: I'm not saying I'm plagued with stress all the time, just that you know as well as I do how stressful some days can be. Employer demands, etc.

[500E]

Wondered where you had been Eric 4 min from beach!!, missed the avtar.

299215.

I think you have to make up your own mind there are people in all walks of life who wish they were some where else, (grass is greener syndrome).

Flying is a JOB albeit demanding, fun, dangerous sometimes, usually due to incorrect decisions by you, so there are times when you want to be doing something else.

I have working for myself since 1963 & all ways enjoyed it, an understanding spouse helps I think I have the best after 42 years, with 3 changes of direction in that time.

If you think this is what you want go for it, if you have reservations, think it through again with + - on paper then think again.

The one thing that the threads seem to agree on is go to a school that you feel comfortable with, don't pay large wads of money up front, if there is a contract READ THE SMALL PRINT, if you are in doubt get a legal eagle to go over it with you, it will save hart ache and bitching on a website later, and that AIDS related thing.

Good luck