Type of Helicopter Trainers

November 10, 2007

So I was reading prior to posting this, and I read that Robbies are not the ideal training aircraft that GOM, EMS, etc. companies are looking for in their potential pilots because Robbies fly differently than other types of helicopters you will be flying commercially. It goes on to state other issues as well. I tried to copy and paste the paragraph, but the website that claims this information has a restriction in which it will not allow you to perfrom such an action, so I will leave you with the link. It's the last section on the bottom.

I find it kind of hard to believe because I haven't heard anything negative about training in Robbies.

Opinions...facts?

FlyingDodo · November 11, 2007

um, you forgot something...

a link perhaps?

Edited November 11, 2007 by FlyingDodo

mechanic · November 11, 2007

This is an very old debate! Yes, Robbies fly like real helicopters. Some school just are very opinionated when it comes to the aircraft they use. They want you to train with them! So they dish models they don't use.

For the majority you have 2 common aircraft that is pretty reasonable far as cost, the R22 and 269 series of helicopters. You will find some FH1100's, UH-12's, Enstrom variants, and Bell 47 variants, all few and far between. You can learn in all of these.

The kicker is finding a job so you can build the required time. The R22 and 269 are the best choices to learn in when looking for a CFI job after training. Insurance and the SFAR 73 requires X amount to time in a specific aircraft to instruct in it, usually they require lots more hours than a fixed wing schools insurance would require. 200 hrs TT FAA SFAR 73 but the most popular insurance requires 300TT in the R22 and attendance of the factory school in CA.

You can look at the major schools in the USA. They all use the R22 alone or a mix of R22 and 269 series aircraft. Look at Hillsboro in OR, Vortex in LA, and Bristow Academy in FL.. Vortex and Bristow train lots of GOM pilots. Don't worry about the aircraft as much as trying to find a quality school that you can afford or get to for training.

Oh, almost forgot, if you have weight issues, a 269 would be a better choice due to higher seat loading limits than the R22.

Hope this helped….

November 11, 2007

Can't believe I forgot the link

Alright, here it is: http://www.hothelicopters.com/career_schools.htm

Thanks for catching that Flyingdodo!

EC120AV8R · November 11, 2007

Of course they want you to believe that Robinson time will be detrimental to your resume. They are selling training and don't use Robinsons. Fact is the R22 is pretty much a staple item when it comes to trainers. Countless pilots are flying all sorts of stuff on all sorts of operations, having started in a Robinson. I am frankly glad I don't have to fly one again, but they do a great job as a trainer. You learn how to be more finessed with the helicopter. I did hate that goofy T-bar, but once you get used to it, it flys the same as anything else.

If you are looking to train, pick a school based on it's reputation, location, and pricing. What they are using to train is is almost a secondary consideration. I have never flown a 269/300, so anyone out there feel free to correct me, but I believe it is slower than an R22 and is more costly per hour.

hoshmaster · November 11, 2007

The other thing that they fail to mention in their statistics is the number of machines that are being operated by each manufacturer. Robinson has many many more machines out there then Schweizer does, therefore you are going to have a higher rate of accidents, statistically speaking. Also a good point was added above Vortex-helicopters only uses Robinson but that is changing right now, because Bristow Group purchased them and they are going to be training in both machines. From what I know employers like Robbi time and prefer it.

apiaguy · November 11, 2007

hahaha.... dang that's funny "employers like robbi time and actually prefer it"

and Statistically speaking the higher number of aircraft should not translate to higher accidents. The statistics are trying to tell you what the accident rate is per 100000 flight hours...

Final straws in what helicopter to train in comes down to proximity to you and cost. Train in whatever you want. If you are motivated you can make it work.

I've never seen anybody be upset at their school before they started.... it's not until after some point of training that things go bad... so how can you know what school reputation to pick from. Every school will have good and bad examples.

November 11, 2007

I was thinking the same thing as everybody too. I have heard nothing bad about Robinson Helicopters. I'm sure everyone has their preference which is awesome. I noticed that a lot of companies utilize Robbies for additional services other than instructing which led me to believe that it was a helicopter of choice by many. I personally am going to start training in the R22. I've checked out the Schweizer 300cBi, and just felt that the R22 was a better choice for me and my aviation endeavors. Just coming across that information on the site sort of put me at a stand still for a moment. I figured a lot had to do with being biased about their training and training facility -- trying to earn your business. Glad everyone has been able to shed some true "unbiased" light on the subject. Please feel free to keep posting. I've learned a lot already from everyone here at VR, and I enjoy reading everything and anything you have to say. Thanks for taking the time to reply to this topic as well!

Stay safe!!

BOATFIXERGUY · November 11, 2007

Learn to fly in what you feel comfortable flying. I would choose the option for my initial employment if you're going commercial. If your goal is to teach at a school that uses the R22/R44, then financially speaking, get your 200 hours in the Robbies. If the company uses enstroms or 269/300's for tours and rides/instruction, the 200 hours in the robby won't help much except for TT (insurance will want at least 100 hours in type).

Galadrium · November 11, 2007

The only thing negative about training in a Robbie is that the R22 wasn't designed to be a trainer... and that is according to Frank Robinson.

RotorWeed · November 11, 2007

The only thing negative about training in a Robbie is that the R22 wasn't designed to be a trainer... and that is according to Frank Robinson.

Bottom line folks; If you learn to fly an R22, you can fly any helicopter.

mechanic · November 11, 2007

84,

Brazos Valley Helicopters dish other things besides the R22 in that article.

They don't like towered airports or part 141 training. I do agree with them on the no need for Turbine or Ext Load training up front, though.

I have been to the school and met the writer of the article and Fly For Food here on VR. The writer of the article told me he could have a fleet of R22's if he wanted. He also said he didn't think the 44 was too bad. I think the negativity is because he is a little larger framed guy, so the R22 would not work for him to instruct in, which is ok by the way.. I am around 200 lbs myself. I like the 269, Enstrom, and B47's he uses. Heck, I like most all the piston models.

EC120AV8R · November 12, 2007

The only thing negative about training in a Robbie is that the R22 wasn't designed to be a trainer... and that is according to Frank Robinson.

Frank Robinson adds that on as a footnote, not a cautionary note. I think his intent is to point out the versatility of his product, wherein it is aptly filling a role that it was not initially intended for.

Sparker · November 12, 2007

Frank Robinson adds that on as a footnote, not a cautionary note. I think his intent is to point out the versatility of his product, wherein it is aptly filling a role that it was not initially intended for.

Excellent sales pitch.... I'll have to remember that one!

big_z · November 12, 2007

There nothing bad about being trained in a variety of aircraft. It certainly doesn't hurt your resume. However, most schools use r22s nd r44s, and there's nothing wrong with learning in a robbie.

afrothunder · September 24, 2008

if you're going to be a helicopter pilot, quit crying and moaning about and complaining about which helicopter is better or worse. so the r22 has a low inertia system, deal with it, and the 269/300 breaks a part every other flight, big whoop. you gotta pay to play. learn how to fly them all. period.

slick1537 · September 24, 2008

Thanks for bringing that one back from the dead.

Goldy · September 25, 2008

Couple comments. I guess since I first learned auto's in an R22 I couldnt possibly be able to do one in a B206 ? I would take that bet any day. Take a guy who has only flown the 206 and let him TRY and do an auto in a 22 !

Kinda like saying I learned how to drive using a stick, so I couldnt possibly drive a car with an automatic transmission!

Oh yeah, one area he is dead wrong. He says the Robbie school is 3 months booked up. Its usually more like 6-9 months, so get your name in now !

I'd write more but I have to get back to my job as a "Helicopter Hour Policeman". Thats where I go around and write tickets to helicopter owners that dont turn in their daily report of hours flown by type. That must be where they get these 100,000 hour statistics from.

Goldy

(smartass)