Check-Ride "Gotchas"

[lwalling]

My private rotorcraft checkride is quickly approaching, and in preparing for my oral and flight exam I find myself wondering what others that have passed through the same joyful moment (not!) found difficult to respond to when the examiner asked for it to be defined/demonstrated/performed. Be it a maneuver, an explanation of how a system on the helicopter works or is affected by aerodynamic factors, etc.

 

I find myself performing well on anything related to the mechanical or statistical data related to the helicopter, emergencies included, and the operation of the aircraft. Aerodynamics and weather are not my strong points by any means however!

[apiaguy]

The guy asks me to talk about the height-velocity curve and what it means when you're in the curve etc... easy answer I think... not a good place to be, very likely that an autorotation will cause an accident or prevent a safe landing is my type of response.....

He kinda pulls a WHAT THE!!.. "you mean you could land without crashing if you are in that area?"... me "well, if you are very near the edge of the curve it is possible to safely crash or not completely total the aircraft or at the very least walk away depending on the circumstances"

 

His point was that in the height velocity curve you are pretty much going to die (which I still despute but just let him have his way)... It was his time to then tell about all his buddies who have died in helicopters.

 

On the flight portion flying pinnacle approaches... shooting for the end of the pinnacle not the front edge... so that if you have an emergency you can fly past (or down the hill) instead of smack into the face.

[helo08]

The guy asks me to talk about the height-velocity curve and what it means when you're in the curve etc... easy answer I think... not a good place to be, very likely that an autorotation will cause an accident or prevent a safe landing is my type of response.....

He kinda pulls a WHAT THE!!.. "you mean you could land without crashing if you are in that area?"... me "well, if you are very near the edge of the curve it is possible to safely crash or not completely total the aircraft or at the very least walk away depending on the circumstances"

 

Shadow of Death!!!

[Goldy]

They are required to pull a distraction during flight. Mine asked me to check to make sure I was on the right frequency, and when I did so, he raised the collective a bit into a climb. No big deal, except we were at 700, and Class B LAX airspace was over my head at 1500..not a good place to climb! I detected it, so when I came back on the collective I lowered, picked up some airspeed and got back where I was supposed to be.

 

Thats ok though, when I went to slide the collective friction off, I unlatched his seat belt by mistake. Easy to do in an R22 with two big guys. He didnt notice it, so I politely asked him to re-connect his seat belt !! Rather surprised look on his face! Gotta love it !

 

At one point he asked if I ever used the GPS. I should have just said no, but I said yes. So his next question was "what one button could I push to find the nearest airport?. I wasn't familiar with any of the GPS buttons, I had just used the map feature...so I didnt have a clue there was a one touch way of finding it....oh well, at least it wasnt an instrument checkride !

 

The manuevers I was not prepared for were hovering autos and running landings. My first running landing I plopped the collective too much once skids made contact, my hover auto wasnt all that bad.

 

He actually showed me some good tips on run ons..

 

Oh yeah, did I mention my checkride was with the Chief Pilot for Robinson? That makes you sweat, and all of your manuevers pale in comparison to his.

 

Goldy

[rollthbns]

This didnt happen to me, but another student got hit with the helipad numbers and what they mean. It was the rotor diamter / gross weight limit markings on the pad. I have only seen one pad marked that way so far, but I am sure it is common.

[FlyingDodo]

Not so much a "gotcha" but a piece of advice.

If you know the answer to a question, whether in the ground or flight portion, and you're sure you're right, stick to the answer. Don't double-think yourself too much. I don't mean argue with the examiner, he'll win an argument everytime. But don't let him talk you out of a correct response. I've had the same examiner three times now, and I have a suspicion it's the same one apiaguy is talking about, it sure sounds like him. This guy is a master of making you question your own knowledge. Halfway through my CFI checkride (much less PPL) he could've asked me what Vne was and he'd have me wondering if I actually knew how to read my airspeed indicator.

 

Good luck!

[PA Pilot]

Not so much a "gotcha" but a piece of advice.

If you know the answer to a question, whether in the ground or flight portion, and you're sure you're right, stick to the answer. Don't double-think yourself too much. I don't mean argue with the examiner, he'll win an argument everytime. But don't let him talk you out of a correct response. I've had the same examiner three times now, and I have a suspicion it's the same one apiaguy is talking about, it sure sounds like him. This guy is a master of making you question your own knowledge. Halfway through my CFI checkride (much less PPL) he could've asked me what Vne was and he'd have me wondering if I actually knew how to read my airspeed indicator.

 

Good luck!

I would just add to that: if the examiner says something like "Are you sure about that?" he's probably giving you one more try to get the answer right.

[IFLY]

Be ready for an engine failure anytime you are talking to approach and they tell you to switch to tower freq. I had it on the private and commercial check rides.

[big_z]

I also got hit with a bunch of "are you sure about that" questions. If you're really ready for your checkride, you will be calm and sure of your answers. Don't let them get to you!

[helonorth]

The examiner asked me if he could fail me on the practical portion if I performed

all the maneuvers and tasks to standards. The answer is yes, if the examiner feels

the applicant shows poor judgement. Always be on the lookout for a forced

landing area and keep reminding yourself which way the wind is blowing. Good luck.

[Witch]

I was doing an auto and halfway down, a flock of birds decided to take flight. I recovered to go around, and I noticed that that examiner seemed to panic there for a moment. I was a little busy and didn't notice if he had said anything.

 

The Chief CFI chopped the power on me whilst in a hover. Scared me, but it was a decent recovery.

 

I got back at my second CFI for pulling breakers and such. I turned the governor off and he didn't notice for at least five minutes. When he did notice, he went "Wha? Is a breaker pulled?" He pushed them all in and the light was still on. I started laughing because he was befuddled. He caught on and laughed about it.

 

What? More Check Rides?

 

Later

[Sparker]

I got back at my second CFI for pulling breakers and such. I turned the governor off and he didn't notice for at least five minutes. When he did notice, he went "Wha? Is a breaker pulled?" He pushed them all in and the light was still on. I started laughing because he was befuddled. He caught on and laughed about it.

 

Nothing better than practical jokes a thousand feet off the ground! Funny, though.

[Tenacious T]

I had a pax briefing ready for the DPE when we went out to fly, he didn't ask for it so I didn't bring it out. After the flight when debriefing he said I forgot to give him pax briefing, he said he was just a passenger and wouldn't know to ask for it.

 

He also liked to ask if it was prohibited by FARs to fly within the H/V diagram shaded area, answer was no because it is not in the limitations section of the POH, it is recommended but not enforced by the FARs.

[Guest rotorflyr84]

I know this isn't rotor specific, but I've got a quick story when I did my PPL checkride for SEL.

 

Everytime I took the aircraft up, the foggles were always in it, but for the checkride, they were MIA. So, in mid flight, when my examiner asked me to put them on, I searched, and searched, and gave him a face like uhh sir, I can not find them. I thought he was going to tell me to take him back to the airport, BUT, instead, he crumpled up my sectional, shoved it over my eyes with the headset holding it together, and told me to continue...

 

It was quite the invention. So, lesson learned, don't forget the foggles.

[lwalling]

My check ride has been completed positively as of today.

 

The examiner was a nice easy going guy, but unexpected in his flight testing methods/routines.

 

He got me by changing my normal work flow in flight around a moderately busy uncontrolled airport.

 

No pattern altitudes, not a pattern at all really. I believe he was trying to express that helicopters do not necessarily have to follow patterns. I am not completely sure.

 

I expected nice clean patterns, altitudes, and instead was doing very tight "small patterns" around fields near the airport in the midst of fixed traffic. A little disconcerting for me since I typically take it fairly slow - Whenever I am in the midst of a good bit of fixed wing traffic at an uncontrolled airport, I have traditionally liked to follow a right traffic pattern and keep my eye on what everyone else is doing before my base leg to landing (either to the taxiway, runway, or a field parallel to), talking a great deal all around. Several runway incursions on autorotation training to the runway, overflights at scary low altitudes, and in general people not talking on the radios for me around the field where I've primarily trained has made me paranoid of traffic, which is probably a good thing. I'm sure everyone has experienced a great deal of that kind of stuff given the frequency I've seen it happening, but it's still very bothersome to me how very little some people seem to pay attention in airplanes and helicopters.

 

The examiner did add one thing at the end of the flight that I think is very relevant: Training for specific landing locations for autos, all types of approaches in general is not necessarily useful - since that learned behavior, while predictable in outcome and easy to reproduce with effort, does not necessarily help with the real world capabilities of a helicopter - The ability to land and takeoff pretty much anywhere. I spent a great deal of time practicing straight in and 180 degree auto rotations, steep, normal, and shallow approaches primarily to one runway location with similar weather conditions on a recurring basis, for instance.

 

That specific practice did not help me a great deal during his testing since all approaches were shot over tree tops to fields in the general area, or off site at a random field for one confined (which was expected of course). So, mix it up, do your practice work at multiple airports, multiple confined areas, make the maneuvers in question are consistent in completely dissimilar locations so you aren't just practicing to reproduce it at one specific airport.

 

The moral of the story is never over or underestimate what the examiner may do during a check ride - and most of all for me - don't expect him/her to be conventional thinking in their testing - as I did definitely expect him to be.

 

Regardless, I have a private rotorcraft license in hand and am ready to start helicopter-hunting, and starting moving on to my commercial rating!!

Edited November 18, 2007 by lwalling

[FlyNHighNFast]

Congratulations Man!

 

I heard about your success from Craig P. of NCR&W this afternoon. Thank you for the insight, as I will be facing my check ride with the same examiner in 2-3 weeks. I'll be sure to get some dual time practicing approaches to places other than the training airport and work some more on confines.

 

How was the oral part of the exam?

 

Thanks,

M.

[lwalling]

Thanks. He is a nice guy, so that part is a good positive for you !

 

I will PM on the other specific topics.

 

Congratulations Man!

 

I heard about your success from Craig P. of NCR&W this afternoon. Thank you for the insight, as I will be facing my check ride with the same examiner in 2-3 weeks. I'll be sure to get some dual time practicing approaches to places other than the training airport and work some more on confines.

 

How was the oral part of the exam?

 

Thanks,

M.

[lockedcj7]

On my PPL-H ride, the DE asked about "Coriolis Effect" and I had a brain cramp and started into a rambling explanation of weather patterns and why wind and weather patterns turn they way they do. He said, "You can look it up if you need to" I very quickly found the section about angular momentum and then answered correctly. He asked the same question on the CPL ride and I was ready for him.

[romanweel]

He also liked to ask if it was prohibited by FARs to fly within the H/V diagram shaded area, answer was no because it is not in the limitations section of the POH, it is recommended but not enforced by the FARs.

 

I got that question on my private, too. He let me flounder around in the FAR wording for a bit (91.9 (a and d)) before pointing to the title over the H/V diagram in my open POH: Performance, not Limitations. The implication being, I suppose, that there are helos out there for which the H/V diagram is a limiting factor? Not the R-22 or the 300CB, at least.

[Sparker]

On my PPL-H ride, the DE asked about "Coriolis Effect" and I had a brain cramp and started into a rambling explanation of weather patterns and why wind and weather patterns turn they way they do. He said, "You can look it up if you need to" I very quickly found the section about angular momentum and then answered correctly. He asked the same question on the CPL ride and I was ready for him.

 

That's funny!

 

So... is that just that DE or will they all let you look up stuff that stumps you?

[aclark79]

I got back at my second CFI for pulling breakers and such. I turned the governor off and he didn't notice for at least five minutes. When he did notice, he went "Wha? Is a breaker pulled?" He pushed them all in and the light was still on. I started laughing because he was befuddled. He caught on and laughed about it.

 

Do you realize that you have admitted on a public forum that you violated 91.9 Civil Aircraft Flight manual, Markings and Placard Requirements. The Robinson POH prohibits disabling the governor except in emergencies or for training... since you are not the CFI in the helicopter you are not authorized to disable the governor. I would be furious if my student disabled the governor in flight in an effort to get even with me, let alone knowingly broke an FAR in my presence. What would have happened if your instructor had initiated a steep turn without realizing that the governor was off, and did not give the correction to prevent an over speed....?

 

I see a lot of posts like this from students, they seem to show a fundamental lack of understanding of the training process and why CFI's pull circuit breakers and do things to 'get' their students. At no time do I ever try to ‘get†my students, I may not like all my students, but I leave my personal feelings outside the helicopter. One of the only ways I can ensure my students are actually checking their gauges is to disable them and see how long it takes for them to notice, or worse, if they call the gauges green when they are not. I did that as a student and the feeling of shame forever burned into me to check my gauges when I made a gauge check. You can tell a student that a hundred times, or you can pull the circuit breakers.

 

Conversely, chopping throttles, rolling off for low rpm, all these maneuvers are designed to instill automatic reactions in you and allow the instructor to assess your current level of skill. You can talk about how to respond to a throttle chop for hours and hours, in one chop you can find out what the student will actually do because they are doing it!

 

If your instructor was really 'out to get you' and trying to score points on you in your training then he should not be an instructor. I'm thinking that he's just trying to do his job.

 

I tell my students at the beginning of their CFI training that I will do things like chop the throttle, pull breakers, and as a simulated students, make lots of mistakes for them to correct and that at no time is it personal or am I trying to get them. We always joke at some point about what I would do if they chop me back... hah hah right. I tell them that they can do it once, and then find another place to finish their training. The cockpit is not the place to get even with anyone, if you really have to get even with your co-pilot, get into a fist fight on the ground once the ship is safely shut down.

 

Edited for a spelling mistake

Edited November 29, 2007 by aclark79

[K-38]

Do you realize that you have admitted on a public forum that you violated 91.9 Civil Aircraft Flight manual, Markings and Placard Requirements. The Robinson POH prohibits disabling the governor except in emergencies or for training... since you are not the CFI in the helicopter you are not authorized to disable the governor. I would be furious if my student disabled the governor in flight in an effort to get even with me, let alone knowingly broke an FAR in my presence. What would have happened if your instructor had initiated a steep turn without realizing that the governor was off, and did not give the correction to prevent an over speed....?

 

I see a lot of posts like this from students, they seem to show a fundamental lack of understanding of the training process and why CFI's pull circuit breakers and do things to 'get' their students. At not time do I ever try to ‘get” my students, I may not like all my students, but I leave my personal feelings outside the helicopter. One of the only ways I can ensure my students are actually checking their gauges is to disable them and see how long it takes for them to notice, or worse, if they call the gauges green when they are not. I did that as a student and the feeling of shame forever burned into me to check my gauges when I made a gauge check. You can tell a student that a hundred times, or you can pull the circuit breakers.

 

Conversely, chopping throttles, rolling off for low rpm, all these maneuvers are designed to instill automatic reactions in you and allow the instructor to assess your current level of skill. You can talk about how to respond to a throttle chop for hours and hours, in one chop you can find out what the student will actually do because they are doing it!

 

If your instructor was really 'out to get you' and trying to score points on you in your training then he should not be an instructor. I'm thinking that he's just trying to do his job.

 

I tell my students at the beginning of their CFI training that I will do things like chop the throttle, pull breakers, and as a simulated students, make lots of mistakes for them to correct and that at no time is it personal or am I trying to get them. We always joke at some point about what I would do if they chop me back... hah hah right. I tell them that they can do it once, and then find another place to finish their training. The cockpit is not the place to get even with anyone, if you really have to get even with your co-pilot, get into a fist fight on the ground once the ship is safely shut down.

I had the exact same thought when I read the original post, and frankly it concerned me. The original poster/student put both his life, and the life of his instructor in danger by turning the governor off to "get back at the instructor" there are many scenarios where this could have resulted in a hazardous condition. This behavior is not acceptable, and demonstrates questionable judgement.

[lwalling]

I'm not sure how safely executed throttle "chops" or breaker pulling could be construed by a student to be bad or "out to get him". Unless done in an unsafe manner of course.

 

I enjoyed every simulated engine failure my instructor threw at me !

 

Do you realize that you have admitted on a public forum that you violated 91.9 Civil Aircraft Flight manual, Markings and Placard Requirements. The Robinson POH prohibits disabling the governor except in emergencies or for training... since you are not the CFI in the helicopter you are not authorized to disable the governor. I would be furious if my student disabled the governor in flight in an effort to get even with me, let alone knowingly broke an FAR in my presence. What would have happened if your instructor had initiated a steep turn without realizing that the governor was off, and did not give the correction to prevent an over speed....?

 

I see a lot of posts like this from students, they seem to show a fundamental lack of understanding of the training process and why CFI's pull circuit breakers and do things to 'get' their students. At no time do I ever try to ‘get†my students, I may not like all my students, but I leave my personal feelings outside the helicopter. One of the only ways I can ensure my students are actually checking their gauges is to disable them and see how long it takes for them to notice, or worse, if they call the gauges green when they are not. I did that as a student and the feeling of shame forever burned into me to check my gauges when I made a gauge check. You can tell a student that a hundred times, or you can pull the circuit breakers.

 

Conversely, chopping throttles, rolling off for low rpm, all these maneuvers are designed to instill automatic reactions in you and allow the instructor to assess your current level of skill. You can talk about how to respond to a throttle chop for hours and hours, in one chop you can find out what the student will actually do because they are doing it!

 

If your instructor was really 'out to get you' and trying to score points on you in your training then he should not be an instructor. I'm thinking that he's just trying to do his job.

 

I tell my students at the beginning of their CFI training that I will do things like chop the throttle, pull breakers, and as a simulated students, make lots of mistakes for them to correct and that at no time is it personal or am I trying to get them. We always joke at some point about what I would do if they chop me back... hah hah right. I tell them that they can do it once, and then find another place to finish their training. The cockpit is not the place to get even with anyone, if you really have to get even with your co-pilot, get into a fist fight on the ground once the ship is safely shut down.

 

Edited for a spelling mistake