The latest at Silver State Helicopters?

[Rogue Agent]

Here was my experience as a student with SSH. About 6 months into my training I had to have surgery and was unable to attend school or fly for almost 5 months which threw me way behind. Prior to my surgery I spoke with my instructor and the GM at my school, made them aware of the situtation and asked what my options were since the agreement that I signed stated my training was to be completed within 18 months. Both of them advised me that due to my circumstances they would work closely with me when I got back on my feet to complete my training- and if I ran past the 18 months (I did- it took me about 21 months) there would be no additional cost to me- and they were true to their word!

 

I for 1 would highly recommend SSH for heli flight training.

 

 

They just started asking any student who is past 18 months to sign the new contract about a month ago. My question for you would be when did you complete your training? What School location did you attend? and are you currently involved with SSH and in what capacity?

[PhilJ]

Fry to say you do not go out of your way to post about SSH is a bit of a stretch, crossposting hearsay from other forums, 75% of your posts must be directly about SSH with the remainder about flight training, loans for flight training and pilot shortages(or lack of). I am curious, what is your background, are you a student, a pilot, what industry sector do you work in? From my perspective you certainly seem to have some bone to pick with SSH and the tone of your posts over the years appears to be getting more bitter. Perhaps you are just a frustrated philanthropist?

[romeowhiskey]

With specific reference to SSH's business practices in the past two years, big_z and smartymarty have no idea what they're talking about. spdave may or may not be making a costly error in signing with SSH.

 

Fry, what you've heard is dead-on accurate. SSH/Airola saw how much capital could be raised almost instantly by cajoling as many people as could qualify for a loan, to sign up. This involved opening many new locations in rapid succession. The problems arose when they could not provide the necessary aircraft and staff to service, in a timely fashion, the great number of students they'd accumulated. I am intimately familiar with the goings-on at one of these locations. Only one student from the first class was able to complete the training, CFI license in hand, within the 18-month contract, and that was only because he'd had previous aviation experience in the military. It wasn't from a lack of interest, desire or determination that no one else could finish, it was purely a result of greed and the resultant poor planning. Fraud and criminal negligence is what happened, and it happened all over the country.

 

SSH higher-ups blame these boondoggles on everything from bad weather to Robinson Helicopter Company, I kid you not.

 

spdave, if you are jumping into a school that is already well-established, you may be OK. Do not sign anything until you've spoken with current students, away from SSH employees, to see how the program at that location is being run. Some of the locations are being well-run, despite the revolving door of CFI's that come and go as quickly as possible, although there are exceptions to this norm.

 

Be wary of the shiny, happy shills SSH has obviously planted in this forum.

[helonorth]

Never heard of anyplace having you sigh a contract. What Silverstaters are signing is high-interest

mortgage with a lot of shady conditions. They stack the deck against the student and much of

the time it works out in their favor. Anyone who has signed their life away at S.S. should

finish ASAP. It's a house of cards.

[robertson]

I am so tired of hearing all of this crap about SSH, i am too a current student at SSH and i like the academy and all my instructors. I am almost done with my trianing with time to spare, the fact of the matter is that i actually buckeled down and made it priority number 1. I understand that some of my fellow students have famillies and jobs to deal with but when they made the decision to become pilots they should have made sure that they had the time to invest to get through the program. I have heard some of them complain about the 18 month deadline and then they turn around and miss class for weeks at a time, scheduling flight time and then they dont bother to show up for it taking away from us who are actually trying to get through the program. As far as the contract, yea i signed it the way i see it takes money to make money. The money that i needed to borrow is being invested towards my future, I cannot think of money better spent.

[spdave]

With specific reference to SSH's business practices in the past two years, big_z and smartymarty have no idea what they're talking about. spdave may or may not be making a costly error in signing with SSH.

 

Fry, what you've heard is dead-on accurate. SSH/Airola saw how much capital could be raised almost instantly by cajoling as many people as could qualify for a loan, to sign up. This involved opening many new locations in rapid succession. The problems arose when they could not provide the necessary aircraft and staff to service, in a timely fashion, the great number of students they'd accumulated. I am intimately familiar with the goings-on at one of these locations. Only one student from the first class was able to complete the training, CFI license in hand, within the 18-month contract, and that was only because he'd had previous aviation experience in the military. It wasn't from a lack of interest, desire or determination that no one else could finish, it was purely a result of greed and the resultant poor planning. Fraud and criminal negligence is what happened, and it happened all over the country.

 

SSH higher-ups blame these boondoggles on everything from bad weather to Robinson Helicopter Company, I kid you not.

 

spdave, if you are jumping into a school that is already well-established, you may be OK. Do not sign anything until you've spoken with current students, away from SSH employees, to see how the program at that location is being run. Some of the locations are being well-run, despite the revolving door of CFI's that come and go as quickly as possible, although there are exceptions to this norm.

 

Be wary of the shiny, happy shills SSH has obviously planted in this forum.

 

I have spoken to students and employees already. Most of them ignore these forums because it's apparently in fashion to bash big companies without knowing what you're talking about, and really, getting advice from the internet, especially forums, is like getting advice from graffitti on bathroom walls. Anyway, what I learned from talking to them is that they have no complaints. I talked to them about the contract thing that's happening and it makes sense to me why they are doing it. Now, I'm not a pilot (yet) but I've done my homework before signing up, and from what I can tell, the only place where you find this kind of open resentment and bitter, unresolved angst towards SSH is on this forum, which makes me question why I signed up here in the first place. I'm off to go read over my paperwork again. I want to get started with my training right after the new year, and it looks like I'm probably signing up with SSH.

 

- spdave

[smartymarty]

With specific reference to SSH's business practices in the past two years, big_z and smartymarty have no idea what they're talking about. spdave may or may not be making a costly error in signing with SSH.

 

Um, I'm a current student at SSH so I think I know what the hell i'm talking about. I talk to other students and instructors and I've seen the contract extensions and it's really generous to the people that need them.

 

I can't speak for whatever class you were in, but I have a hard time believing there are no helicopters available when I always see blocks available on the schedule. Nobody in my class has had a problem getting flight time.

 

Saying that people couldn't finish because of a result of greed is laying all the blame on SSH and none where it probably belongs, on the students. God forbid people take personal responsibility for their investments in their education.

 

Spdave, if you want more info about my school, PM me. I'll give you my honest opinion and you can take it or leave it.

[Flip]

Wow... I think I counted 8 new members (joined within past 3 weeks) who all claimed to be associated with SSH and "highly satisfied"... just on this one thread... Never before have I seen something so strange on this forum...

 

By the way.. never heard of contracts before SSH either.

[ascott20]

First off, if a student signs a contract, then they must bear the consequences.

 

However, there is a catch.

 

I ran into a similar problem at ERAU when I was getting my private airplane cert. The summer weather sucked that year, followed by 9/11 and then a hurricane. At the same time, any available flight time between events was given to students who had a cash balance in their student accounts while us "pay as you go" students fought for a couple planes (literally like 8 out of 85). In the end, I went 4 months without a single flight right after my stage 1 checkride. When the flight schedule opened up to us "proles" again, I was told that since I wasn't meeting my contract properly, I was to be given an evaluation flight. Having only a few actual hours of flight time, I failed it. Our senior instructor hauled me and my instructor into his office and informed me that I was to be cancelled from the course. My instructor waffled (his job was up for grabs already and he wasn't too sure he would be keeping it) and left me on my own.

 

Fortunately, I have a natural "jerk" tendency in my personality that comes out every so often. I had recorded every single flight that was cancelled as a result of me being bumped by a positive balance student (this was not advertised in their contracts, so they had some legal issues there) and every weather cancellation I had; in addition to 9/11 and the hurricane. I confronted him with it, and he said "he didn't care." I then stated that I was willing to get a lawyer and the dean of students involved since I am not liable for external issues to my training. I was gambling on that statement, and as it turned out, it worked. ERAU had gotten used to dropping students without a challenge to its contracts and had never realized how weak its stance was. Not only is the school not responsible for external problems, but neither is the student. Needless to say, the instructor changed his tune and I was given some priority for finishing my training, without any tarnish to my record.

 

My advice to any student, regardless of school, is to be wary of contracts. They are both good and bad as they give the school legal protection for potentially bad instruction/students/aircraft, but they also guarantee the student a slot in an organized training program.

 

To these SSH students. Go back to your senior instructor/flight manager/chief pilot and discuss with them why you're behind. While it could very well be you, it could be from bad weather, aircraft, instructor shortage, etc. The accountants don't look that deep into the reasons, just the results. Politely and respectfully challenge them, but stay firm. Remember, this isn't a public high school; this is a business that is going to make money with or without you. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. More often than not, they'll react in the positive for you in these cases; but not unless you voice yourself to them.

[K-38]

Wow... I think I counted 8 new members (joined within past 3 weeks) who all claimed to be associated with SSH and "highly satisfied"... just on this one thread... Never before have I seen something so strange on this forum...

 

By the way.. never heard of contracts before SSH either.

What a coincidence. That is strange.

[big_z]

First off, if a student signs a contract, then they must bear the consequences.

 

However, there is a catch.

 

I ran into a similar problem at ERAU when I was getting my private airplane cert. The summer weather sucked that year, followed by 9/11 and then a hurricane. At the same time, any available flight time between events was given to students who had a cash balance in their student accounts while us "pay as you go" students fought for a couple planes (literally like 8 out of 85). In the end, I went 4 months without a single flight right after my stage 1 checkride. When the flight schedule opened up to us "proles" again, I was told that since I wasn't meeting my contract properly, I was to be given an evaluation flight. Having only a few actual hours of flight time, I failed it. Our senior instructor hauled me and my instructor into his office and informed me that I was to be cancelled from the course. My instructor waffled (his job was up for grabs already and he wasn't too sure he would be keeping it) and left me on my own.

 

Fortunately, I have a natural "jerk" tendency in my personality that comes out every so often. I had recorded every single flight that was cancelled as a result of me being bumped by a positive balance student (this was not advertised in their contracts, so they had some legal issues there) and every weather cancellation I had; in addition to 9/11 and the hurricane. I confronted him with it, and he said "he didn't care." I then stated that I was willing to get a lawyer and the dean of students involved since I am not liable for external issues to my training. I was gambling on that statement, and as it turned out, it worked. ERAU had gotten used to dropping students without a challenge to its contracts and had never realized how weak its stance was. Not only is the school not responsible for external problems, but neither is the student. Needless to say, the instructor changed his tune and I was given some priority for finishing my training, without any tarnish to my record.

 

My advice to any student, regardless of school, is to be wary of contracts. They are both good and bad as they give the school legal protection for potentially bad instruction/students/aircraft, but they also guarantee the student a slot in an organized training program.

 

To these SSH students. Go back to your senior instructor/flight manager/chief pilot and discuss with them why you're behind. While it could very well be you, it could be from bad weather, aircraft, instructor shortage, etc. The accountants don't look that deep into the reasons, just the results. Politely and respectfully challenge them, but stay firm. Remember, this isn't a public high school; this is a business that is going to make money with or without you. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. More often than not, they'll react in the positive for you in these cases; but not unless you voice yourself to them.

 

I am utterly shocked. That has to be the most even-keeled, well thought out, unbiased, and reasonable post I have ever read.

 

I totally agree with you. I am a CFI at SSH and I think that if any student that had an issue took your advice they would be be doing themselves a favor. I'm aware of a recent contract enforcement and really, it only affects a certain segment of our students that for whatever reason haven't finished well over the contractual time. For some, a generous extension is a boon. To others, well, some people are just unmotivated and not cut out to go all the way with their helicopter training. For those people, maybe the pay-as-you-go route would have been a better choice. I went the contractual route, but that's just me. I can see how it's not for everyone. However, that's no reason for everyone to jump on the SSH-is-the-evil-empire bandwagon.

 

To answer another post prior to this one, maybe you haven't seen SSH people on this forum much because it's a bash-fest in here most of the time. And really, it's iffy at best to post about any company you work for or are a student at, for good or bad. But whatever.

[DeezNutz]

What a coincidence. That is strange.

 

 

Yep... word is SSH just fired the majority of local managment personnel, and their marketing team. Seems that their new investment partner "EOS" has impregnated these fora with thier own stooges to boost the SSH image.

 

It is not a coincidence... been planned for some time now I am sure. Expect to see more of the same in the near future.

 

Just to stir the poop a little... here is a fine quote from their company website

 

"The instructors at this school know what they are talking about and have better yet have an understanding on how to reach someone that has had no aeronautical knowledge what so ever and have them soloing in 7 short months. The feeling that I have received from all of the instructors is that they love what they are doing and enjoy helping other people to achieve the same thing."

 

you can find it in their success stories page under the flight academy link...

 

 

 

Now, if you are just soloing after seven months... you are clearly not on schedule to finish your CFI in 18 months. If this is a problem that is potentially punishable by terms established in a contract... then why is silver state touting it on their own "success stories" page?

 

This would seem to be a clear contradiction in ones interests, but contradictions dont exist... Silver State wants you to beleive that is an exceptional achievement, so that it doesnt feel wrong when it takes you 8 months to solo... until that 18 month contract sneaks up... and you've only received $40,000 in training for the $70,000 they will take from you before kicking you out.

 

 

 

-D

Edited November 29, 2007 by DeezNutz

[big_z]

Yep... word is SSH just fired the majority of local managment personnel, and their marketing team. Seems that their new investment partner "EOS" has impregnated these fora with thier own stooges to boost the SSH image.

 

It is not a coincidence... been planned for some time now I am sure. Expect to see more of the same in the near future.

 

-D

 

Oh that's just a stupid lie. By "stooges" I assume you're talking about anyone relatively new to the forum that happens to not have a problem with SSH. Oh no, someone has a different opinion than you, what ever will you do?

 

Pfft.

[hoverflyr]

I am not a SSH basher, but I have been in aviation for 39 years and I have never signed a contract for any type of flying. I have to tell you that any type of contract that I have signed (real estate, auto rental, auto purchase, etc) have been in the best interest of the person or company that is presenting the contract to me, not mine. If you need a contract you need a lawyer to read it first.

[Rogue Agent]

I am utterly shocked. That has to be the most even-keeled, well thought out, unbiased, and reasonable post I have ever read.

 

I totally agree with you. I am a CFI at SSH and I think that if any student that had an issue took your advice they would be be doing themselves a favor. I'm aware of a recent contract enforcement and really, it only affects a certain segment of our students that for whatever reason haven't finished well over the contractual time. For some, a generous extension is a boon. To others, well, some people are just unmotivated and not cut out to go all the way with their helicopter training. For those people, maybe the pay-as-you-go route would have been a better choice. I went the contractual route, but that's just me. I can see how it's not for everyone. However, that's no reason for everyone to jump on the SSH-is-the-evil-empire bandwagon.

 

To answer another post prior to this one, maybe you haven't seen SSH people on this forum much because it's a bash-fest in here most of the time. And really, it's iffy at best to post about any company you work for or are a student at, for good or bad. But whatever.

 

The reason this dosen't work very simply is because of the carrot. Yes I said the carrot.

 

Most students that are unhappy about anything, specificaly how they are progressing in their training are not meet wit a positive response for the CFI's and managment when they go to them. They are then reminded that the time they spend in the progam as a student is part of te "interview" they are taking for a job after the training is complete. This is the carrot. It is used by SSH to control the students, because if it was not in place, the student would realize they are the customer and would not stand for it.

 

If you are wondering I am a current student at SSH and have seen this first hand. There was this guy at our school in Houston and he did not buy into the carrot like the rest of us. Every time SSH did something that we as students thought was BS he would go directly to managment and the CFI's and raise the question that most of us, including me, wanted too.

 

Know what it got him? Kicked off the flight schedule for some BS reason. They made it so hard for the guy to train that he just disapeared. I'm really not sure what happen to him.

 

These days I just try to keep my head down and my mouth shut. Sometimes I wish that guy was around from time totime because some of the stuff SSH is pulling is crazy. But I cant say anything because I can't screw up my interview.

 

R A

[DeezNutz]

Oh that's just a stupid lie. By "stooges" I assume you're talking about anyone relatively new to the forum that happens to not have a problem with SSH. Oh no, someone has a different opinion than you, what ever will you do?

 

Pfft.

 

No assumption is necesary... that is exactly what I meant and implied.

 

There have not been too many Silver State supporters among the ranks here... ever.

 

Suddenly without explanation there are many, newly registered users posting not only in defense of SSH, but uplifting them... one of two things is happening.

 

1 - Some people are acutally happy at Silver State, found this forum, registered and posted in defense of their school... this is abnormal to a well established forum... if real SSH students were going to do this, I think it would have already happened several times.

 

2- What I said before, someone organized a nice feel good about silver state campaign to bolster their image for upcoming changes and publicity.

 

 

If you really are a happy and content student or employee of SSH, it shouldn't matter to you what some dude on the internet thinks... and I certainly am not concerned about wether or not people on the internet agree with me... or I might have more than 23 posts here in the last 2 years!

[Chopper54]

Actually, you have 24 posts now .... go you!

[romeowhiskey]

Most students that are unhappy about anything, specificaly how they are progressing in their training are not meet wit a positive response for the CFI's and managment when they go to them. They are then reminded that the time they spend in the progam as a student is part of te "interview" they are taking for a job after the training is complete. This is the carrot. It is used by SSH to control the students, because if it was not in place, the student would realize they are the customer and would not stand for it.

 

Heard it. Seen it.

Rogue speaks the truth.

 

Another interesting fact:

Recently, Bristow's Air Logistics put a hiring freeze on pilots trained by Silver State Helicopters. I confirmed it with the AirLog recruiter. It's true.

[ascott20]

Just another quick note...

 

I seems that a lot of people are concerned about this and maybe I can alleviate some worries. Whenever a public company changes control, the previous management is usually sacked as well as their HR team. Why? Because they are probably the reason the company is in the current state that it is (MD helos is a quasi-good example of this). Most investment firms fear "old thinking" in their "new company" and therefore prefer to start witih new managers. I know very little about SSH overall, or its new parent company, but maybe it will swing them for the better.

 

Rogue Agent, your comments concern me some. I can't even begin to speculate about what happened to that guy (besides he probably got fed up and removed himself from the program) but your comment about "staying low" is not good. If you don't have a strong relationship with your instructor (or trust for that matter) then you need to rethink about your training and where you are getting it. Regardless of school, you instructor works for you and represents you to the company. If your branch of SSH or that instructor/manager combo have a paltry attitude towards the student base, then they should released or you should go somewhere else. Any training program that uses fear of dismissal as its retention tool is bound to have an accident because a student is too afraid or instructor too arrogant to make critical judgement calls. And that is what being a PIC in a helo is about.

[rottenrobbie]

I'm currently a SSH student and have tolerated a lot of frustrating problems (all have been covered already so I won't wast my time) and have taken most of it in stride until this new 4 month contract came along. I just finished my private after close to 2 years and sat down with my GM who told me that after my 120 days expire I will probably have to pay somewhere in the ballpark of $25,000 more out of pocket expenses. That's without my instrument which would be skipped, and turbine transition that I paid extra for. Total cost for all my ratings minus instrument $100,000 plus interest. I'm screwed if I don't sign it, screwed if I do. Any suggestions other than I should've known better?

[dogdaddy]

Any suggestions other than I should've known better?

My suggestion is to keep posting your experiences, as you have done, so at least others can be aware and make their decisions accordingly.

[wasabi]

Warming Warning Warning!!

 

Anyone considering joining SSH or currently enrolled in Silver State Helicopters, Be advised that the company has recently laid off all of its enrollment division, all General Managers and non-essential personnel.

 

They cancelled all advertising, special events and seminars.

 

The writing is on the wall, they are forcing students to sign a new contract, to get rid of them easier.

 

more to come.

[wasabi]

Just another quick note...

 

I seems that a lot of people are concerned about this and maybe I can alleviate some worries. Whenever a public company changes control, the previous management is usually sacked as well as their HR team. Why? Because they are probably the reason the company is in the current state that it is (MD helos is a quasi-good example of this). Most investment firms fear "old thinking" in their "new company" and therefore prefer to start witih new managers. I know very little about SSH overall, or its new parent company, but maybe it will swing them for the better.

 

Rogue Agent, your comments concern me some. I can't even begin to speculate about what happened to that guy (besides he probably got fed up and removed himself from the program) but your comment about "staying low" is not good. If you don't have a strong relationship with your instructor (or trust for that matter) then you need to rethink about your training and where you are getting it. Regardless of school, you instructor works for you and represents you to the company. If your branch of SSH or that instructor/manager combo have a paltry attitude towards the student base, then they should released or you should go somewhere else. Any training program that uses fear of dismissal as its retention tool is bound to have an accident because a student is too afraid or instructor too arrogant to make critical judgement calls. And that is what being a PIC in a helo is about.

 

 

With all due respect, SSH is not a public company and will never one.

[wasabi]

As a former student, and current CFI for SSH, I too was a bit skeptical of the "18 month" contract, but after speaking to quite a few current SSH students and staff I made the decision to attend SSH- and have no regrets about that decision. As a student I completed the course in just under 15 months, and as a CFI I have never personally had a student take over 18 months to complete the course. If a person is motivated and it is the passion to fly then there would be no reason that they could complete the course well within the 18 month timeframe.

 

 

 

Sorry Ryan, cannot aggree with your assesment, the average student at SSH takes longer than 18 months to become a CFI, this is because SSH wants it that way, it is how they regulate costs. This is why you have a 17 weeks of ground school.

[wasabi]

Posted at JH:

 

I heard something rather curious today about the students at SSH, I heard that the school is giving students that have been there more than 18 months a choice of either finishing in 120 days or they would be kicked out without even finishing the course, with absolutely no money back!.....They have got such a high new student rate, that they are crapping on those that have fallen behind to make room for the new ones!...isn't that crazy!....after paying all that money they just kick them out without a second thought!.....that's pretty rough.....anyone know anymore details about this?

 

and...

 

120 days is the max time a student gets to finish the hours they already

paid for ... if a student has 15 hours left of the 200 they originally paid for

they might get 30 days ... AND they will have to pay an additional $1/hour

to the CFI for each hour they ALREADY paid for to fly or sit in a simulator ....

many will NOT get their instrument rating THEY PAID FOR ... not enuf time ..

only their Commercial and CFI ... then they're DONE ... this is all coming

about due to the new partner (EOS) who wants to take the company

public along with greedy Jerry and issue stock ... greedy bastards ... they

have to clean up the books/accounting ... they can't have several hundred

students continuing to fly with expired contracts on the public books ...

the worst part of this which is the fact that of the $69.9k price ... students

paid $5k for 5 hrs of Turbine Training and paid for long line training that

SSH has NOT provided ,,, SSH now says the students have lost it because

the original contract time period has expired ... this is a major rip off ... Jerry

has lost control of SSH and sold off any integrity he had left to EOS who

can now remove him if they want to ... the EOS Board of Dirs is now in control

at SSH ... I heard they laid off a pile of marketing employees and that some

managers have quit or refused to rip off students in this way ... the students

are afraid to go after SSH legally because even after this insult they actually

want or need to work for SSH as CFI's to build their hours up to eventually

work for a "real" helicopter company ... pathetic SSH keeps getting more slimy everyday ...

 

Is it true? Does SSH's fixed-price program "for working adults" come with a time limit?

 

 

You are right on the Money, SSH is never going public though. They appear to be in liquidation mode