407 crashes due to stuck mic

[PhotoFlyer]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...01772&key=1

 

I think everybody should see this, and learn from it. Accidents like this are completely preventable. Comments, please post.

[Whrilwind50]

I don't get it.

[FlyNHighNFast]

I don't get it.

 

The pilot's job is to fly the aircraft, everything else should be secondary. He could have completed a normal pattern and landed into the wind, instead of downwind. A stuck mike is not an emergency, just turn the radio off and squawk 7600.

[joker]

The stuck mic didn't cause this accident.

 

It might have been part of the 'error chain', but to say the crash was 'due to the stuck mic' is a bit sensationalist, eh?

 

Aviate, Navigate Communicate!

 

Joker

[Goldy]

ok, I start by saying I have never flown a 407..even in my dreams.

But that must have been one hell of a tail wind

[PhotoFlyer]

The stuck mic didn't cause this accident.

 

It might have been part of the 'error chain', but to say the crash was 'due to the stuck mic' is a bit sensationalist, eh?

 

Aviate, Navigate Communicate!

 

Joker

 

Very right, poor decision making caused the accident. I used that title to draw attention to the topic because I believe there is a lot to be learned from this accident. It is a classic example of a pilot taking a minor problem and turning it into an emergency.

[nbit]

Yeah, it was a few years ago I remember about a Bonanza had it's door pop open on takeoff and the plane subsequently crashed into a house, killing the pilot and causing havoc on the ground. (I believe it may have killed or injured a home inhabitant. Someone else here may have heard). The reason cited was that the pilot lost control of the aircraft trying to take care of the door issue. I couldn't understand how though - cause I used to own a Bonanza, with a very tight door seal, and it too had once popped open in flight, but never became a problem, other than I just had to turn back, land and have the passenger close the door and double check the latching mechanisms. The little decisions in how to approach a small problem can lead up to large consequences. Aviate, navigate, communicate. How true...

[AdminLB]

The 407 has excellent power to weight ratio. Should not have happened. Must of been fat on gas, fat on pax (only 3 onboard?/), fat on sink rate, and fat on tailwind. All that + poor decision making + poor pilot technique = Settling with power. Had nothing to do with stuck mic.

 

Wonder what the purpose of the flight was? I did not look up N407LL to try and get an idea.

 

Lyn

[Linc]

Lyn,

 

Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter

 

From the header of the report.

[helonorth]

The pilot probably did that approach a thousand times and finally got into vortex ring state. Do not

squak 7600. If your in the pattern, fly it and look for signals or go somewhere and make a phone

call. I was told by MSP ATC that 7600 should only be used on an instrument plan.

[Paisley]

Everybody always seems to blame the wind.

[AdminLB]

Lyn,

From the header of the report.

 

Thanks, I saw that. Many mission types can be done under 135. I was just wondering what the nature of the mission was. Perhaps just a charter flight hauling people from point A to point B. Maybe an ENG ship.

 

It appears that the owner of the helicopter is FCC EQUIPMENT FINANCING INC located in Jacksonville FL. That really does not tell us much though.

 

Lyn

[JDHelicopterPilot]

A great example of something so simple turning into a major issue. Above poster said 7600 is for IFR flight plans. Not true, it is used for VFR or IFR radio failure. The tower would have no idea if your radio failed if you didn't SQ 7600.

 

I have had 2 radio failures in both cases able to recieve but not TX. Both times I was off shore. One time I used to transponder to reply by using the IDENT feature as requested by ATC. The other time I had light signals.

 

I wonder if the fact the 407 pilot put the helicopter in a slip to decrease ground speed contributed to the problem. A slip would reduce A/S and increase rate of decent. Not a good thing with a tail wind.

 

JD

[helonorth]

A great example of something so simple turning into a major issue. Above poster said 7600 is for IFR flight plans. Not true, it is used for VFR or IFR radio failure. The tower would have no idea if your radio failed if you didn't SQ 7600.

 

I have had 2 radio failures in both cases able to recieve but not TX. Both times I was off shore. One time I used to transponder to reply by using the IDENT feature as requested by ATC. The other time I had light signals.

 

I wonder if the fact the 407 pilot put the helicopter in a slip to decrease ground speed contributed to the problem. A slip would reduce A/S and increase rate of decent. Not a good thing with a tail wind.

 

JD

I am aware it is for both IFR and VFR. It was for a specific airspace underlying class Bravo. The

head controller asked us not to squawk lost com because it seemed unnecessary and caused

problems. Enter the pattern and look for signals. You were talking to ATC offshore?

[JDHelicopterPilot]

I am aware it is for both IFR and VFR. It was for a specific airspace underlying class Bravo. The

head controller asked us not to squawk lost com because it seemed unnecessary and caused

problems. Enter the pattern and look for signals. You were talking to ATC offshore?

 

 

I see. I too have found sometimes local controlers like to do things "their way" rather than as said in the FAR/AIM. Sometimes it makes sense. I just wonder how MSP controlers know when a radio failed w/o seeing 7600? Maybe in the pattern it works but I never lost a radio in the pattern. I wasn't off shore in the Gulf. Noticed radio failed, turned back around flew back to shore, 7600 and landed.

[brushfire21]

ok, I start by saying I have never flown a 407..even in my dreams.

But that must have been one hell of a tail wind

 

Goldy, we "flew" a close cousin to the 407 last year on a miserable hot afternoon in a sim if you can remember that far back! Also as I recall, we both had the oppurtunity to auger it in a few times too I might add!!! Me thinks that all your R22/44 time lately has made you forget what a real cyclic feels like hahaha

 

We did a damn good job of aviating and navigating too....... might I add!