kids will be kids

[67november]

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3975930

[bossman]

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3975930

That's pretty good. Looks like something my crew would do.

bossman

[Hovergirl]

What kid wouldn't want to do that? That looked hilarious.

 

You have a choice between not telling them what the mystery button does (and piquing their curiosity) or saying "Don't push that or this entire hangar will fill with foam!" (and piquing their curiosity). Even if you throw in a bit about knives shooting out from the walls some kid would want to see it...

 

HVG

[Optigirl]

What kid wouldn't want to do that? That looked hilarious.

 

You have a choice between not telling them what the mystery button does (and piquing their curiosity) or saying "Don't push that or this entire hangar will fill with foam!" (and piquing their curiosity). Even if you throw in a bit about knives shooting out from the walls some kid would want to see it...

 

HVG

 

I don't think I would go right to fun, In fact I think dangerous is the word i would use. Don't some of them systems use a chemical that removes oxygen from the 3 sides of the fire triangle?

 

My Dad insisted on basic fire fighting skills, As we have our little hanger and heli-pad here on our own property.

[Smith]

I'd wager the button was large shiny and red to.

[deanathpc]

I don't think I would go right to fun, In fact I think dangerous is the word i would use. Don't some of them systems use a chemical that removes oxygen from the 3 sides of the fire triangle?

 

My Dad insisted on basic fire fighting skills, As we have our little hanger and heli-pad here on our own property.

 

There is different types of foam out there I know that much and it's hard to say what they are using. That's an awful lot of foam!!!!! And it's probably going to cost thousands of dollars to recharge that system. Very expensive mistake right there!

 

Wonder if any damage to the aircraft sitting in the middle of it!!!!

[K-38]

I don't think I would go right to fun, In fact I think dangerous is the word i would use. Don't some of them systems use a chemical that removes oxygen from the 3 sides of the fire triangle?

 

My Dad insisted on basic fire fighting skills, As we have our little hanger and heli-pad here on our own property.

You are correct Optigirl. Your Dad taught you well.

The fire control systems used in computer rooms, and areas with sensitive electronic equipment use CO2 or Halon type systems because they will not damage the electronics. The CO2 or Halon gas fills the room, displaces the O2, and extinguishes the fire. You do not want to be in the room when these are activated. The process creates a IDLH environment for any persons inside. Without an independent supply of 02 it would result in unconsciousness, brain damage, and death. These systems are best suited to self contained areas that can be reasonably air tight.

What the video showed was a foam system. Foam is used because oil(or oil based liquids i.e. jet fuel), and water do not mix. As we know from our fuel checks the fuel will sit on top of the water. If the fire crew were to use traditional fire fighting tactics i.e. water to attack an aircraft fire it would make the situation much worse by spreading the burning fuel all around the hanger involving the entire area. The fuel will sit on top of the water, and continue burning unrestricted. Foam breaks down the surface tension of the water allowing the water, and fuel to mix slightly better. Most importantly the foam forms a smothering blanket on top of the burning fuel depriving it of the needed 02, and extinguishing the fire.

[AngelFire_91]

Yep, foam really doesn't hurt too much stuff. It's actually a very excellent firefighting tool. Extreamly high expansion foam like what was used there probably only left a couple gallons of water behind after it all dissipated. We used to do this for basement fires. Stick a high expansion foam nozzle in the window and let'er rip. Smothers the whole fire and cleanup is a breeze, usually left only about a pint of water behind. Unless of course we have to check for extension, which requires pulling walls and celings, that get's kind of messy. But the foam usually never even hurt the pictures on the walls, or carpet or anything. We used to also fill a room with it and just have fun doing stupid crap in there, like a kid playing in a room full of leaves. So I would imagine the Helicopters only got a light dusting of water and nothing else. And by the way, not to bust on anyone but just a clearification, only one side of the fire triangle is Oxygen (Oxydizer). It's actually a Fire Tetrahedron that's taught now days.

Edited December 11, 2007 by AngelFire_91

[Witch]

It's actually a Fire Tetrahedron that's taught now days.

Tetrahedron? I was taught that it was a Fire Dodecahedron. It had something else about atomic structure, neutrinos, quarks, and something called a "Bob". Maybe that was my pyromaniac uncle Bob? I think Cheetos were in there too.

 

Later

[bspindeli]

Bored kids = mischievious kids! Get that kid a job somewhere.

[brushfire21]

I loved the video, reminded me of a pic of a hanger with a large aircraft (think 747 or something like that, possibly military) and the hanger was filled with foam, only thing you could see was the rear tailfin sticking out of the foam!

 

For todays trivia answer, halon extinguishing agents work on the chemical reaction leg of the fire tetrahedron. It breaks the uninhibited chain reaction between the fuel and the oxidizer that is causing the rapid oxidation (fire) of the material involved. It does not smother or remove the oxidizer/oxygen, but it wiggles in and spreads them apart basically. In metals or fuels that have an oxidizer incased within the fuel, smothering the fuel doesn't work, so you have to either cool or stop the chain reaction.

 

Reading the above comments about foam, I figured I would stick my head out on the chopping board and clarify a few things. If someone else has a beef with anything here, bring it on and we can discuss it further, and maybe I can pick up a new thing or two as well.

 

The Foam typically used for petroleum fires and arcraft firefighting (AFFF) is similiar, but very different than foam used for wildland and structure fires (Class A Foam). AFFF concrate is injected at a 3% or 6% with water in the hose/plumbing and when mixed with air at the nozzle creates a foam that is sprayed on a Class B fire. Typically these fires are pooling liquids and the foam blanket creates a barrier and "suppress" or "caps" the vapors that burn or reacting with the oxygen in the air. Typically AFFF solution repels hydrocarbons, so as it won't mix with the flammable liquid, and so as to sit on top of the liquid.

 

Class A foam is primarily used as a surface tension reducer so it can get into the fibrous materials of wood or other household fuels, but it can also be used to smother to a degree (remember there is still oxygen inside the bubble structure when it collapses). Class A foam is attracted to hydrocarbons (anything that burns typically), and has long chain polymers that allow the water to intermix or attach directly with hydrocarbons. You really don't want this with AFFF, it will make a BIG mess!

 

With both foams, the bubble structure sticks to the fuel, and as the bubbles collapse, the water/foam contained within is released and is spread onto the fuel for a cooling effect like normal water (and add additional vapor barrier on AFFF fires/liquids). With plain water, it typically hit the material and runs off, making you have to reapply water multiple times. Foam sticks and penetrates.

 

Now that I have bored all of you, I am going to go back to watching the "Deal or No Deal" girls! Have a wonderful evening all, and I look forward to some interesting comments or disccusions here!

[K-38]

[

Reading the above comments about foam, I figured I would stick my head out on the chopping board and clarify a few things. If someone else has a beef with anything here, bring it on and we can discuss it further, and maybe I can pick up a new thing or two as well.

 

Good post. Good info. I stand corrected.

[nbit]

Simple solution - mount the button higher

[tvman345]

Yep, that was North East Philly (PNE) at the Agusta HQ. Second time this year that the foam has gone off. Last time they updated the ATIS with "use caution for blowing foam."

 

-T