My Country Does Not License Pilots

[Mikemv]

To all but especially CFI Applicants and CFI's! A quick story, being, in the early 70's I was going for my Aiplane CFI check ride. I was warned by the guys that tested the day before that when the FAA Inspector asks me for my medical and my license not to produce my pilot certificate and medical certificate or I would be BUSTED! I should produce my drivers license and med certificate because as a CFI Applicant I was expected to know that the USA does not license its pilots. We are all Certificated Airman! I never forgot this. Once, after hiring a new Chief Helicopter pilot for our Flight School, he started printing up costs for training programs including PPL and CPL. I asked him what those letters meant and he looked at me like I was crazy or stupid. I then explained we offered PPC and CPC Courses. He thought that I was nit picking but went along with me. We (not me) all use the word license but it is technically incorrect. CFI's should apply the Law of Primacy and teach it correctly from the first time and always. Another story, but true. Coming thru US Customs at Ft. Lauderdale, I asked the Customs Agent if I should fill out the forms truthfully and correctly. He said"Of Course, Yes". So where our US Gov. form says License number, I wrote in None then US Pilot Certificate #-------. When a law enforcement officer asks me for my pilots license, I politely tell them that my country does not license its pilots. Then show him my pilots certificate. My point is not to be difficult with Gov. people but for all new pilots working toward their CFI Rating not to get caught on this point. Be respectful, but DO teach it correctly. Also, know all the level of Certificates. Good Luck in your progress to CFI, Mike

[rick1128]

Coming thru US Customs at Ft. Lauderdale, I asked the Customs Agent if I should fill out the forms truthfully and correctly. He said"Of Course, Yes". So where our US Gov. form says License number, I wrote in None then US Pilot Certificate #-------. When a law enforcement officer asks me for my pilots license, I politely tell them that my country does not license its pilots. Then show him my pilots certificate. My point is not to be difficult with Gov. people but for all new pilots working toward their CFI Rating not to get caught on this point. Be respectful, but DO teach it correctly. Also, know all the level of Certificates. Good Luck in your progress to CFI, Mike

 

You were lucky. CBP personnel do not have ANY real training, but are authorized to enforce any and all FAR's. And the tend to do so with a vengeance. Even though they have no training they think they know it all and will MAKE sure you know it. And you will pay the price.

 

What is really bizarre, is that if you discuss this with most FAA inspectors, they are not aware of this and try to convince you that the CBP personnel are only checking ID's. RIGHT!

[me shakes fist]

What's the difference between having a license and a certificate?

[Mikemv]

What's the difference between having a license and a certificate?

 

MSF, the difference is "The FAA does not issue a license to ANY pilot! We are all Certificated Airmen!" After reading a lot of the slop in terminology here and realizing that pilots to be, student pilots and some Private and Commercial Pilots are reading this and will be driven to become CFI's, my point was to be correct in what we do. Build habit patterns that create good "Attention to Details". Being a sloppy pilot or overlooking things will not be a good training habit to build on to be a Safe & Professional Pilot. I was not meaning to correct everyone but to make a point to have great attention to detail! Even FAA Inspectors will ask to see your license? What do they really mean? I had one POI for our 135 Ops always ask to see our Trip Tickets. I asked him what the heck he was asking for because no place will you find Trip Tickets in Ops Specs or FAR's? What he wanted was Weight & Balance Cals/Records/Mainifests for our flights. "Oh", they are only required for multi-engine aircraft I would tell him & having a B206, AS350, B206L & B407 we did not have Trip Tickets. "Duh" that is CORRECT he would say! Forget that I asked. When all of you take an Oral during a Check ride, be correct with your terminology, CFI's teach your students correctly.

 

As to my first post, Customs people at Ft. Laud were always OK to deal with, not A-hos.

 

To all, fly Safe, Mike

[Jeff]

Did you know it is illegal to fly an aircraft in Ohio? If you read the Ohio Revised Code (ORC 4561.11(A)) you will find that it requires on to have an "aviator's license" issued by the "civil aeronautics administration". Failure to comply can result in a fine of up to $500 and jail time of up to 90 days. This is not an antiquated law, either. The effective date of the law is Jan. 1, 2004! I don't need to explain this because it is painfully obvious that it is impossible to comply with this state law.

 

Jeff

[Jeff]

What's the difference between having a license and a certificate?

 

 

A certificate is a document serving as evidence or as written testimony, as of status, qualifications, privileges, or the truth of something. Whereas a license is formal permission from a governmental authority to do something. States feel that they have to give us permission to drive, but the federal government feels that we are free to fly as long as we have a certificate saying we're qualified. That is also why the State can suspend your driver license through administrative action, but the FAA must go through due process to take away your pilot certificate.

 

Personally, I think some of the training and currency methods we have in aviation could be applied to driving. If done properly, could dramatically increase driver safety. Afterall, driving accidents, like flying accidents, are mostly caused by driver (pilot) error. Better driver training would help tremendously with highway safety. ... but that's another forum.

 

Jeff

[me shakes fist]

Mikemv, I understood that part of your post. What I was asking was more along the lines of terminology. Up until now, I just thought of "airman certificate" or "pilot license" as different ways to say the same thing. In other words, I was asking what is a license and what is a certificate as it relates to be able to do something like pilot a helicopter or drive a car. Jeff answered my question, though, so thanks to both of you!

 

By the way, I'm a student getting ready for my private check ride so this is definitely useful information for me!

[PhotoFlyer]

License:

1 a: permission to act b: freedom of action

2 a: a permission granted by competent authority to engage in a business or occupation or in an activity otherwise unlawful

 

Certificate:

1: a document containing a certified statement especially as to the truth of something; specifically : a document certifying that one has fulfilled the requirements of and may practice in a field

 

 

To be technical, (unless state law says otherwise) you do not need a pilot's certificate to fly legally. Thus, the term license would be inappropriate for this use.

[jet trash]

This discussion comes up about every 2 or 3 years.

 

Continue with the dead horse beating.............

[joker]

I actually think the main point of discussion is whether the word 'license' can be used as both a noun and a verb.

 

Joker

 

P.S

Just remember that most of the rest of the world issue pilot Licences though. I believe that even ICAO collectively terms all such documents as 'Licenses'. So I wouldn't go barging around civil aviation authorities around the world trying to change them.

 

The simplest thing is 'when in Rome....' If the US want them called certificates, I'll oblige. If your customs officers don't know the difference, and ask me for my pilot's licence, I'll also oblige. I'm not going to t lose any sleep over the issue though.

 

Hmmm....I wonder how many other countries issue certificates.

 

I guess it could be argued that by definition, that little card I have in my flight bag is both a pilot's licence and a pilot certficate!

 

Joker

[Mikemv]

Wow, how can people still be missing the point? This post was not about "License or Certificate". Those terms were used to show an example of incorrect terminology. The point of all this as stated in post #4 is to have new students/pilots/CFI's build habit patterns that are correct with good attention to details to be safe throughout their helo flying carreers! As far as "beating a dead horse", many readers here now were not in tune with any of this 2 to 3 years ago! Best to All, Fly Safe, Mike