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$120 per hour Turbine time

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I heard there is a company going to rent mini 500 turbines Now the L-500 for 120 per hour wet anyone know about this or anyone going to do it?

 

Why fly a mini 500 when you can fly a 206 JetRanger for $150/ hour ?

Edited by Goldy

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Are we talking about the Mini 500? Those things scare me honestly. I don't know of anyone East of the River but here in LA there are several places you can do this in a 206 as Goldy pointed out.

 

 

JD

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I heard there is a company going to rent mini 500 turbines Now the L-500 for 120 per hour wet anyone know about this or anyone going to do it?

 

 

How can a company rent you an experiemental helicopter? And why would anyone rent a helicopter that isn't type accepted?

 

RW

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Where can I get the 206 for $150? Phone number and contact name would be great.

 

Thanks

Jerry

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Where can I get the 206 for $150? Phone number and contact name would be great.

 

Thanks

Jerry

 

Yes, I would like some 206 time at that price as well.

 

RW

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I know there is a loop hole on the Sport Pilot ratings for training that allows you to rent an experimental for flight training, but Helicopters are not included in the Sport Pilot rating. Unless something has changed lately in the FAR's???? The EAA has this loop hole listed on their website. I don't remember the number anymore sorry, would have to do the research again.

 

Is the mini considered an Ultra Light??

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I know there is a loop hole on the Sport Pilot ratings for training that allows you to rent an experimental for flight training, but Helicopters are not included in the Sport Pilot rating. Unless something has changed lately in the FAR's???? The EAA has this loop hole listed on their website. I don't remember the number anymore sorry, would have to do the research again.

 

Is the mini considered an Ultra Light??

 

You are correct, you can not get a Sport Pilot rating for "Rotorcraft Helicopter". And the Mini 500 isn't and ultra light aircraft.

Even if it were possible to rent a "Turbine Mini 500" for time building what would be the point? It's a single seat machine, why would a potential employer be interested in single seat turbine time? <_<

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It doesnt say anywere in my logbook "how many seats are in the a/c".... its turbine time. its a helicopter. i've talked to a few people. they dont care how you get the hours, just get them and come fly for em...

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http://www.heliclass.com/

 

Not $150 but I suspect something like this is what Goldy is talking about.

 

Actually that is exactly WHO I was talking about !!!! I know several pilots which have flown with him and have been very happy with the real world experience. Looks like the price is 170 now...oh well, somebody has to pay for the $100/barrell oil world we live in.

 

Goldy

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You can use an experimental for training (ie rent it) only for type specific or transition training. For example, you could use a Rotorway Exec to train certified helicopter pilots (PPL or better) to fly the Rotorway Exec. This allows the owner of the plane to charge for rent as well as instruction. This was a special waiver the FAA gave in response to the EAA's request. I had heard this waiver was going to be replaced by a permanent rewrite of the FARs.

 

I researched this extensively a year and a half ago when I was considering building or buying an experimental airplane. I figured I could really make it work financially if I could give flight training in it in addition to my own personal flying. Alas, this was not to be.

 

Here is an EAA article on it. Read the second to last paragraph.

 

Flight Instruction in an Experimental/Amateur-Built Aircraft

 

Am I allowed to receive flight Instruction in an Experimental /Amateur -Built aircraft?

 

The short answer is yes, you can receive flight training in an amateur-built aircraft. However, there are some issues that may limit this opportunity.

 

First, the aircraft in question must have already completed it’s flight test phase (called “phase one operations”). Phase one is usually either the first 25 or 40 hours of operation, depending on what engine/prop combination is installed. During phase one operations, only the pilot can be in the aircraft, so no dual flight instruction could take place in the aircraft during this time.Assuming that the aircraft has completed phase one operations and has been moved into phase two (normal) operations, flight training in the aircraft would be allowed. The next issue is finding a CFI (certified flight instructor) who is willing to provide primary training in the homebuilt aircraft in question. Not all CFI’s are willing to give instruction in homebuilt aircraft.

 

Another issue is whether the aircraft in question meets all the requirements of training for the license or rating sought. For private pilot certificates and above, there are requirements for night and instrument training, as well as radio navigation, so the aircraft used for training must be equipped for these operations. If the amateur-built aircraft does not have the appropriate equipment, a second aircraft will have to be used for those portions of the training. Splitting your training between two aircraft will certainly add additional hours to the flight training but will provide the added benefit of experiencing more than one aircraft’s flight characteristics.

 

The next thing to consider is the practical test (checkride). This is governed by 14 CFR 61.45, which states that the applicant must present a standard, limited, or primary category aircraft for the practical test. However, this regulation also allows the Designated Pilot Examiner (DPE) the discretion to administer the test in an Experimental-Amateur Built aircraft. Some DPE’s are not willing to give a practical test in an amateur-built aircraft, so you may have to find an aircraft acceptable to the DPE in which to take your checkride. Also, the aircraft used for the checkride must be equipped to perform all the tasks listed in the Practical Test Standards for the license or rating sought. Depending on the level of equipment in your homebuilt, you may end up taking your checkride in the aircraft in which you did your night and instrument training

 

As a practical matter, you will only be able to do your primary training in a homebuilt that you own. This is due to the fact that the operating limitations (which are issued as a part of the aircraft’s airworthiness certificate) for a homebuilt prohibit the carriage of persons or property for compensation or hire. This means that the owner of a homebuilt aircraft cannot rent the aircraft to you, as that would constitute carrying a person for compensation or hire.

 

Finally, you need to make sure you can properly insure the aircraft for primary training (including solo). Depending on the aircraft, insurance may not be available for an owner that is not yet a certificated pilot. Even if you can acquire aircraft insurance as a student pilot, this may or may not be cost-effective. You’ll have to balance the cost of this insurance against the cost of renting an available training aircraft from your local FBO (Fixed Base Operator). Note that even if you rent an aircraft from an FBO it is strongly recommend that you carry non-owner insurance (often called “renter’s insurance”) to protect you in the event of an accident. The insurance premium for your homebuilt will probably drop considerably once you get your pilot certificate and a few hours of experience in your logbook.

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Actually that is exactly WHO I was talking about !!!! I know several pilots which have flown with him and have been very happy with the real world experience. Looks like the price is 170 now...oh well, somebody has to pay for the $100/barrell oil world we live in.

 

Goldy

 

Hi

 

I fly for HeliClass actually

 

The rates are legit, and as stated we have many happy and satisfied pilots...if you are interested tell them Capt. Kirk referred you!

 

Now there is also another time building offer for rated pilots in Southern California as well...

Taken directly from the Pacific Flyer:

JET RANGER flight time, $155 per hr.

Great opportunity to build valuable turbine time and experience.

Rated pilots please call Bill (714) 334-0027

Years ago I flew more than a few shifts with this group as well and am confident in recommending them as well.

 

Got any questions? ask away...

 

Best Regards,

Capt. Kirk

post-11998-1199515250_thumb.jpg

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Hi

 

I fly for HeliClass actually

 

The rates are legit, and as stated we have many happy and satisfied pilots...if you are interested tell them Capt. Kirk referred you!

 

Now there is also another time building offer for rated pilots in Southern California as well...

Taken directly from the Pacific Flyer:

JET RANGER flight time, $155 per hr.

Great opportunity to build valuable turbine time and experience.

Rated pilots please call Bill (714) 334-0027

Years ago I flew more than a few shifts with this group as well and am confident in recommending them as well.

 

Got any questions? ask away...

 

Best Regards,

Capt. Kirk

 

 

Try the $100 per hour program at www.R22.us as www.HelicopterAcademy.com has 13 helicopters in programs that are $100 an hour and they've done this for years and are a RHC Service Center in Ft Lauderdale with Three full time mechanics and have a good reputation

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...

Capt. Kirk

 

"Capt. Kirk" & "Commander Chuck".... is there some sort of secret military organization for helo pilots in LA??

 

:)

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How can it even be legal for a Private pilot to act as pilot of command of an revenue producing A/C carrying passengers?

 

He cannot

 

FAR 61.113

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (B) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.

 

(B) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:

 

(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and

 

(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.

 

© A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

 

(d) A private pilot may act as pilot in command of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event flight described in §91.146, if the sponsor and pilot comply with the requirements of §91.146.

 

(e) A private pilot may be reimbursed for aircraft operating expenses that are directly related to search and location operations, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees, and the operation is sanctioned and under the direction and control of:

 

(1) A local, State, or Federal agency; or

 

(2) An organization that conducts search and location operations.

 

(f) A private pilot who is an aircraft salesman and who has at least 200 hours of logged flight time may demonstrate an aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer.

 

(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of §61.69 may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.

Edited by 67november

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How can it even be legal for a Private pilot to act as pilot of command of an revenue producing A/C carrying passengers?

 

 

I was thinking the same thing however I see the loopholes above.

 

I still think it's crazy that you pay to do work that you should get payed to do(however in this instance it is the only legal way for them to do it). Another reason why pay in the helicopter world is so dismal.

 

Another variation of "Ill fly for free to get hours".

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I was thinking the same thing however I see the loopholes above.

 

Another variation of "Ill fly for free to get hours".

 

How can you make that claim? As a private pilot the only way to get flight experience is to pay for it. What difference does it make if the flight time is in a Robbie or 206? Unless their program is based on "come along for the ride and don't touch the flight controls" this is quite beneficial to us low timers. Everybody talks about "paying your dues," it really should be "paying for your experience," until you land that first job, it is what you are doing anyway.

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How can you make that claim? As a private pilot the only way to get flight experience is to pay for it. What difference does it make if the flight time is in a Robbie or 206? Unless their program is based on "come along for the ride and don't touch the flight controls" this is quite beneficial to us low timers. Everybody talks about "paying your dues," it really should be "paying for your experience," until you land that first job, it is what you are doing anyway.

 

 

It's not benificial.

 

There are tour pilots out there who make scratch because of things like this. It's not benificial because when you have enough hours to get a job, YOUR pay will be jack because someone is paying to do what you trained to do. The company make money from the customer to give them a tour and you pay to fly them, so yea for the company, it's a win-win situation. That's marketing savy for sure. Kudos to them.

 

I think it's the same way when people pay to ferry someone else's helicopter.

 

Honestly, I don't know how the hell you afford to become rated in helicopters on the civilian side anyway. You borrow truckloads of cash at high rates then accept paying for work to then in turn accept piss poor wages because someone below you is always willing to do that. 40-60-80 thousand dollars to get your ticket to only turn out 20k a year living off noodles with 10 years time on the job is crazy. So no I don't have an answer for you on the civilian side other then instructing.

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It's not benificial.

 

There are tour pilots out there who make scratch because of things like this. It's not benificial because when you have enough hours to get a job, YOUR pay will be jack because someone is paying to do what you trained to do. The company make money from the customer to give them a tour and you pay to fly them, so yea for the company, it's a win-win situation.

 

Hi Hawk - I don't follow - the company pays a pilot probably according to market, right? So why would a pilot earn less doing this if the company MAY at some point in the yr have another pilot PAYING the company extra money to fly for hrs? It doesn't effect the pilot salary. The company hiring the tour co. is still paying the same price, so this extra $$ the helo co. will earn by renting out its 2nd seat is just gravy, no? So, how does that negatively effect the pilot for hire? How is his / her salary reduced by having a 2nd fly along? I'm not in the "running a helo business" so maybe I am missing something.

 

Honestly, I don't know how the hell you afford to become rated in helicopters on the civilian side anyway. You borrow truckloads of cash at high rates then accept paying for work to then in turn accept piss poor wages because someone below you is always willing to do that. 40-60-80 thousand dollars to get your ticket to only turn out 20k a year living off noodles with 10 years time on the job is crazy. So no I don't have an answer for you on the civilian side other then instructing.

Man, if the military would take 40-somethings as helo pilots, I'd be there before I finish typing this sente... (But luckily, I only fly for fun, anyway).

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Hi Hawk - I don't follow - the company pays a pilot probably according to market, right? So why would a pilot earn less doing this if the company MAY at some point in the yr have another pilot PAYING the company extra money to fly for hrs? It doesn't effect the pilot salary. The company hiring the tour co. is still paying the same price, so this extra $$ the helo co. will earn by renting out its 2nd seat is just gravy, no? So, how does that negatively effect the pilot for hire? How is his / her salary reduced by having a 2nd fly along? I'm not in the "running a helo business" so maybe I am missing something.

 

Maybe I am missing it. I read it as the person was paying to do the flying and it wasnt just a ride along. Which also begs to say, if that is the case, just what experience are you getting as a ride along. You arent logging PIC time and you are wiggling the sticks. Other then asorbing what is going on that is just as bad.

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Maybe I am missing it. I read it as the person was paying to do the flying and it wasnt just a ride along. Which also begs to say, if that is the case, just what experience are you getting as a ride along. You arent logging PIC time and you are wiggling the sticks. Other then asorbing what is going on that is just as bad.

 

No, that's how I read it, too. You fly & pay for the privilege to fly. You do log PIC time, but with the "loophole" that you CAN do this & act as PIC in commercial flight under FAR 61.113 © (the money that the pilot is paying to be the pilot in the 2nd seat ($120/hr or whatever) I assume is used to cover this section - "A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees"). (I did this in LA for a day for fun once, where I paid an hrly rate (I assume my "p/r share" to fly, I logged PIC when I had controls & it wasn't dual because the other pilot was not a CFI).

 

My question was, even if this is the case, how does that effect another pilot getting a job or depress the salary of other pilots?? The 'ride along' option (& its extra money) is not something that a commercial company can count on to be there, so any effort to pay a pilot less than market because it is relying on this 'extra money' would be stupid.

 

So, I guess my question is to not only you but to others who make this argument that it depresses/hurts professional pilot salaries. I can see it in ferrying, like you mentioned, but for selling turbine time like this co. does or others??

 

But I understand where you ask, "just what experience" are you getting. When I did it, I had already some turbine time, so I had the feel of it a bit, & we did practice OGE, pinnacle landings, patterns, max performance t/o, steep approach, off-airport landings, etc... So we DID do things where I learned something, but this sort of flying is not to get 'real training' in a turbine. This was as if I was going out to rent an R22 to just do some flying for the day.

Edited by klas

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I think you guys are twisting the facts here a bit. First off..no students, rated helo pilots only. Second, the pilot is a CFI, third, you don't ride along..you fly, fourth, most of these ships are owned by the pilot and leased at an hourly rate to the station. The extra money goes to that pilot quite often, or to the owner of the aircraft. In no case is the pilot making less because of the other pilot on board.

 

The Part 61 conflicts have been argued on VR for years.

 

Goldy

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