A means to what end?

[flynlow]

Hey folks,

 

Well, I am in the same situation as many of you on this site and realize I am not the only one dealing the issues I am about to discuss. Ok here it goes. I am 28 no college as I devoted my time and energy(money) into building my flying career. I have about 900 hrs of fixed wing time and about 50 hours in helos. I was like many and hooked from my first helicopter training flight. After working many dead end low paying fixed wing jobs I am seriously considering going into helos. The thing I am having trouble swallowing is, yes I LOVE to fly, but at what point does one's love for flying just not be enough to endure years of bullshit in the forms of no money/dead end jobs. I realize I am close to breaking into the airline world but is being gone 15 days out of every month really considered a great job? Sleeping in cheap hotels gets old, believe me! So is life better in the helicopter world? Ok so let's say I did decide to do this, get my CFI make peanuts for a year maybe two. Then what? Does anyone have any personal experience in the GOM? Is the quality of life decent there or is this just another stepping stone? You see where I am going with this..So after the GOM there Life Flight etc etc. It almost seems one would be better to get a great paying job ie: medicine, psychology, counciling whatever, then buy a damn helicopter and fly for fun. Have a gotten into a field full of "well if I can just get that next job".. I got news for everyone, if I would have invested the time, money, energy and tears into medicine as I did flying I could buy a damn jet ranger right now!! If I sound bitter I apologize it just seems that this industry has us by the nuts because of the passion we have for flying. At this point, to me $50,000 dollars a year doesnt sound that damn rewarding knowing what lies ahead. The other aspect i forgot to address is how many times one needs to move to go and chase these "stepping stone" jobs all over the country. Ever try a long distance relationship? I could write a book about them. Well in closing I hope someone reads this and can set me straight and tell me all my sacrifices are for good reason because at this point I just dont know!

 

 

Cheers

 

Isaiah

[helonorth]

If you go to the utility/offshore threads, you can get an idea what the GOM is like. I know what

you are saying, but it seems like you already have a lot invested in aviation. I have gone the

helo route and often wish I went airplanes. The bad thing about helicopters is that you will

never make that much. Where I work, a 20 year vet tops out at 78K. Not bad money, but

after 20 years you would be an airline captain making at least double that amount. Away

from home a lot, yes. Do you want to go back to instructing for at least a year? I barely

kept from starving the first time. The airport Marriot beats a trailer in Louisiana any day.

Do your time with the regionals, get on with a major and don't look back.

[Gomer Pylot]

You're pretty much right. If Uncle Sam had taught me more marketable skills, I would have been much better off, but I'm doing what I know. The young kids on here don't have a clue, nor do most of the older guys having midlife crises. Flying helicopters isn't that rewarding a career in most cases, and it is never financially rewarding. It's a job, a way to make a living, but it's not glorious and never will be. The fun lasts for awhile, but not forever. After the novelty wears off, and getting up a 4AM day after day gets to be a grind, it's just another meciocre-paying job, and every time you change jobs the pay goes down, not up. Think long and hard about getting into this, because it's not glamorous, it's not cool, and it's not high-paying. Chicks don't jump into your arms because you're a helicopter pilot, and wives don't all stay around to put up with all the crap. It's easy to be starry-eyed about flying, but the cold hard truth is that it ain't all it's cracked up to be. It's better than lots of jobs I can think of, but far worse than many more I could think of.

[propwasher]

Helonorth is right - your potential top end for earnings in fixed-wing is much higher than rotary-wing. You'll have to eat ramen noodles for a few years but it'll be worth it when you land a job with a major. Even after all the paycuts and bankrupcies of the past few years a Captain at a major earns 2 or 3 times what an experienced helo pilot earns. He's gone 14 days per month (but so is a helicopter pilot in many jobs) He sleeps in his own hotel room, not a trailer. He has fantastic travel benefits. He has a 401K, medical insurance, profit sharing, and perhaps a pension. His training is some of the best in the world. Maintenance is top-notch, and he flys in airconditioned comfort. He doesn't have to scud-run at night trying to land at an accident scene. He doesn't carry around overweight smelly boudreauxs who earn more than he does. He doesn't fly airsick tourists all day long in the heat of the canyon. He can live anywhere in the world and commute to his base for free. He is held to very high standards by his company and his fellow pilots. But - and there's always a but............

 

 

 

 

scroll on down:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HE CAN'T HOVER!

[flynlow]

Keepin coming guys..tons of insight...greatly greatly appreciated!!!

[500pilot]

Gomer Pylot is spot on about this industry. Many people go into this with blinders on thinking how great it is to fly helicopters. Others have midlife crisis and are tired of the daily grind in an office. The problem is one day IT WILL BECOME A JOB. When it does you will try to educate others about the ups and downs just like some of the more experienced ones do.

 

Don't think you will be home every night. Helicopters were meant to go were people can't go. That means spending the night in a trailer or motel. EMS is one of the few jobs that you stay home but for the work you do the pay sucks. The pay for this industry sucks in general. I've heard the argument that it you make the same amount in an office and are hate it but spend 8 hours in a helicopter and see how you feel. After the day is over you won't even want to look at a helicopter.

 

A typical 14 hour duty day is the equivalent of 24 hours in an office if you consider the wear it takes in the body. Now just think you have to do it all over again in 10 hours. If you get 8 hours of sleep that leaves just 2 hours to get from the airport to wherever you are staying, eat, watch TV, shower and get back to the airport. Not much time and not much rest. Now do that 7-14 days in a row. Just think about the monotony of flying the same people to the same places over and over and over and over again just takeoff, straight and level land. Thats it. Maybe program the GPS listen to the radio over the ADF but nothing else. Now think about doing this while sitting in the same position for those full 8 hours. Ever drive a car on a long trip and just get bored with the same thing? What happens? You get tired. Unfortunately you don't have the luxury of pulling over so you have to do anything to fight that feeling.

 

This is what flying is. And that is the way it should be. BORING. I hope to always have a boring flight because that is a safe flight. No chip lights, no caution/warning lights, nothing to tell me my aircraft is broken. If you find it to boring and try to do something different thats when an accident happens. This is what flying is. Helicopters just seem glamorous but they won't make you rich and they won't get you laid.

 

Many people say they just want to make enough to live without to much sacrifice and see 50-60k as a ton of money. Guess what, for what we do its not. Who wants to work for twenty years and see their pay only go up 20 thousand in that time. Your not even covering inflation. What is being offered is no where near what should be paid. I keep seeing EMS gigs offering 49k to fly. WTF? To put yourself in that danger and make that little is robbery. But there is always a steady stream of pilots willing to take that job thinking it will be a stepping stone to something better. You then have to ask yourself what is better? When is the job not going to be a stepping stone?

 

Another drawback is the lack of places to work as a helicopter pilot. Most jobs for us are sparsely located or are located in places where no one wants to live. This means you have to commute and not be home at night with the family. If you finally find a job in a place you like what happens if the company goes tits up? Now you have to find a job somewhere else which means moving the family again and hope its somewhere you like. At least in fix wing jobs are everywhere which means you have a much better chance of getting a job someplace where you want to live.

 

I might come off here as an old disgruntled pilot but I'm not. I've just been flying for many years and have seen lots of things happen in this industry. I will admit things have gotten better over the last several years but are still not where they should be. I enjoy flying and am lucky enough to have a job that pays great and allows me to be home every night. I am one of the lucky ones. Not many jobs like this are out there and many many pilots are still trying to find that job. I have done many things in this industry so I can say that there isn't much else I want to do ( I really want to fly the AW139 though) but I still look to the future. One failed medical, one bad year from my company and its over. I need to find something else. I always fear that day will come. My biggest regret is not finishing college. Luckily I am still young so I am now working on college and also getting my fixed wing ratings. This way I am more marketable and can maybe retire if the college thing works out.

 

I tell this to all future pilots out there. Flight schools sell the glamour but need to tell the whole story. I love this industry but hate it at the same time. You have already got your fix wing and lots of time. You should be at the Regionals by now. Suck it up fly the regionals and move on to a better fix wing job. Then if you still want to fly helicopters you can afford to get those ratings. With all your fix wing time you will actually be more marketable. The grass is not always greener on this side of the fence.

 

My 2cts. Good Luck.

[DanceswithCyclic]

Thanks for the 'behind the curtain' peek. You are absolutely correct about schools selling the glamour. Some day, long in the future, I'll remember this post and say 'Yep, ain't changed much since then.' Then finish my pre-flight in the dark and climb aboard.

[Helix]

I don't think it matters what you get into for a career, after 20 years it will be a job. The people having the mid-life crisis and changing careers may not be on the wrong track, whatever it takes to keep life interesting. On the other hand (I should have ran in the primaries) it does suck how the industry uses the romantic side of flying to keep the cheap labor coming, supply and demand. It doesn't take much research on the net to find forums for any job out there and get the real life view from people working them. There are a lot of variables, age, family, income, etc. Try to be smart about it, but don't shrivel up at one place your entire life if it isn't doing it for you. This could be a mindless rant, it's late...

[slick1537]

Well, now that silver state is gone, and Sallie mae has stopped offering high risk loans, I do think that we may start seeing less supply within the next 10 years. That is my hope anyway, since I'm a student pilot.

[auto360]

Funny how things that seem so bad to some sound so good to others. Drove over the road for 11 years, truck drivers say the same thing that everyone on here is saying. Bad pay, the horrible places that you have to sleep, time away from family etc. Plus, trucking companies sell the dream of the open road. I suppose most of it is how you veiw life and what you want to get out of it. Sleeping in a mobile home or oil rig even is appealing to me. But sleeping in my 18 wheeler parked outside of a warehouse in the Bronx or La or by railroad tracks in Nebraska is my cup of tea. Just need to figure out what makes you "tick" then do the research on your plan of action. Listen to others advice but only you can have the final answer of what you want.

[rotor_head_spencer]

This is going to sound corny or cliche but I don't really care because I have to say it. Do what makes ya happy and chase your dream. DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. In my opinion, one of the the most important things in life is waking up everyday and being happy with what you are doing. If you wake up in the morning and the first thing that pops into your head is "MAN I don't want to go to work today! Its going to SUCK!" then you need to find something else. Could you make more money flying a bus in the sky? Hell yes. Will it be exciting and give you tons of stories to tell the grandchildren when you are old? Probably not. I have known a lot of FW pilots flying for the airlines and they are about as happy as an accountant stuck in an office all day. Just my observation and opinion, but I wanted to be a pilot for the airlines until I started hanging around a lot of pilots that worked for continental airlines and they sounded a LOT like some of the guys who have posted on this very subject. To me, it is like everything else in life, it is what you make it to be.

 

Oh, and if you need to say that you're a "PILOT" as a pick up line to get laid, then you probably have other problems to worry about. Maybe you should aim for being an airline pilot so you can afford plastic surgery?

[Mike Murphy]

OK...I'll throw in my .02

Flew for 20 yrs in the Navy and the last half of that was definitely a job. I was tired of it. When I retired I had an MBA and went into the govt contracting world as an Information Systems Security Professional getting huge pay raises with each new job. Then I started hating going to work and dealing with a fair number of morons everyday...it just really sucked! Got my helo currency back, took about a 60% pay cut from a 6 figure job and now I'm flying EMS and LOVING IT. I really enjoy getting up to go to work. It has it's moments, like every job, and its fair share of pricks in the industry, like every job...and hell yes we should be paid more but the market is what it is right now.

 

I received an unexpected letter from the mother of a patient I transported thanking God for giving me and the med crew the skills to do what we do and make a difference in people's lives once in awhile. It was a complete surprise and I don't ever expect to get another one of those...that's not why I do this...let the med crews be heros, my job is much more basic than that but I love it. We do serve a purpose; hospitals are 100's of miles apart around here and sometimes a helo is the only thing that can get somebody with a serious injury out of the sand dunes. I do this because I think I'm doing a job that's important and I love flying helicopters. It's never been about the pay, if I want big bucks I'll be a CP or DO somewhere. If this job ever starts to suck, then back to my cubicle and a cushy job that pays way too much I go.

 

Hope that helps.

[Yuki]

Hi Mike,

 

Words of encouragement. Call it mid life crisis, or, lack of excitement in life, or whatever. I am a VP of Product Design and Development in a large Toy company. People think that toys are fun...They are correct, however, the road to make them is not (in short). I am ready for the change and the cut in $$$. One important attribute I kept as a designer and a manager - be positive. Being bitter would not generate any lift. I am going full blast ahead (just started 7 engine hours ago).

 

ThanX again, Yuval.

 

OK...I'll throw in my .02

Flew for 20 yrs in the Navy and the last half of that was definitely a job. I was tired of it. When I retired I had an MBA and went into the govt contracting world as an Information Systems Security Professional getting huge pay raises with each new job. Then I started hating going to work and dealing with a fair number of morons everyday...it just really sucked! Got my helo currency back, took about a 60% pay cut from a 6 figure job and now I'm flying EMS and LOVING IT. I really enjoy getting up to go to work. It has it's moments, like every job, and its fair share of pricks in the industry, like every job...and hell yes we should be paid more but the market is what it is right now.

 

I received an unexpected letter from the mother of a patient I transported thanking God for giving me and the med crew the skills to do what we do and make a difference in people's lives once in awhile. It was a complete surprise and I don't ever expect to get another one of those...that's not why I do this...let the med crews be heros, my job is much more basic than that but I love it. We do serve a purpose; hospitals are 100's of miles apart around here and sometimes a helo is the only thing that can get somebody with a serious injury out of the sand dunes. I do this because I think I'm doing a job that's important and I love flying helicopters. It's never been about the pay, if I want big bucks I'll be a CP or DO somewhere. If this job ever starts to suck, then back to my cubicle and a cushy job that pays way too much I go.

 

Hope that helps.

[zemogman]

A means to what end... This is a great question !!

 

At this point I am contemplating NOT continuing to CPL after getting my PPL. I have NOT been flying helos for years (I'm only soloing at this point) but I've been around everyday life for a while.

 

I believe, like some others in this post, that it is relative to your situation in life. For me, the pay cut to CFI does not work, Re-location doesn't work, Commercial Pilot pay (in general) is less than what I've been making for the last 8 years. This is MY situation and it helps form MY current decision.

 

However, the dream to fly is coming true for me... My first solo was amazing and I expect the others to be awesome too. Maybe it will be a blessing to fly for recreational purposes and NOT career purposes as originally planned... I don't know. For now... the industry is what it is !!! It sucks that helo pilots don't make great money, maybe that will change some day...

 

I can see how anything interesting can become just a job, but I also believe attitude and commitmnent can make the difference. If not, most of us would never make it thru marraige...much less flight school !!

 

Mando

[Wally]

Hey folks,

 

Well, I am in the same situation as many of you on this site and realize I am not the only one dealing the issues I am about to discuss. Ok here it goes. I am 28 no college as I devoted my time and energy(money) into building my flying career. I have about 900 hrs of fixed wing time and about 50 hours in helos. I was like many and hooked from my first helicopter training flight. After working many dead end low paying fixed wing jobs I am seriously considering going into helos. The thing I am having trouble swallowing is, yes I LOVE to fly, but at what point does one's love for flying just not be enough to endure years of bullshit in the forms of no money/dead end jobs. I realize I am close to breaking into the airline world but is being gone 15 days out of every month really considered a great job? Sleeping in cheap hotels gets old, believe me! So is life better in the helicopter world? Ok so let's say I did decide to do this, get my CFI make peanuts for a year maybe two. Then what? Does anyone have any personal experience in the GOM? Is the quality of life decent there or is this just another stepping stone? You see where I am going with this..So after the GOM there Life Flight etc etc. It almost seems one would be better to get a great paying job ie: medicine, psychology, counciling whatever, then buy a damn helicopter and fly for fun. Have a gotten into a field full of "well if I can just get that next job".. I got news for everyone, if I would have invested the time, money, energy and tears into medicine as I did flying I could buy a damn jet ranger right now!! If I sound bitter I apologize it just seems that this industry has us by the nuts because of the passion we have for flying. At this point, to me $50,000 dollars a year doesnt sound that damn rewarding knowing what lies ahead. The other aspect i forgot to address is how many times one needs to move to go and chase these "stepping stone" jobs all over the country. Ever try a long distance relationship? I could write a book about them. Well in closing I hope someone reads this and can set me straight and tell me all my sacrifices are for good reason because at this point I just dont know!

 

 

Cheers

 

Isaiah

 

"The thing I am having trouble swallowing is, yes I LOVE to fly, but at what point does one's love for flying just not be enough to endure years of bullshit in the forms of no money/dead end jobs."

You answered your own question, now face it- when it's not worth it, it's not worth it- quit and do something else. Change what you can if it helps you, accept what you can't, or do something else. If you're not a hundred per cent in this line of work, you're going to start scrimping, then shamming, and pretty soon you're in big trouble. Why die unhappy?

 

"I realize I am close to breaking into the airline world but is being gone 15 days out of every month really considered a great job? Sleeping in cheap hotels gets old, believe me! So is life better in the helicopter world?"

Different, yes, but better???

Helo jobs seem to start higher, that wears pretty thin the second or third time you "start". Helo guys never make as much as 121 flag carrier captains traditionally make, but neither do "121 flag carrier captains"- anymore. The gap's narrower, but will probably never close. Of course, that's 1% of the 1%...

You might not be sleeping in "cheap hotels" much as a helo pilot. As previously posted, helicopters are used to go places most folks don't go, which means there usually won't be any kind of hotel, cheap or otherwise. Barracks, some decent, some not so much, or cheap hotels when you're around civilization. Yes, there are jobs you can work from a conventional home situation- CFI; ENG; law enforcement; EMS. Pick one, go after it, and enjoy.

 

P.S. You can stop beating yourself up about medicine, at least. My wife's a physician, they're the newly indentured to the "health care crisis", and it's getting worse, as anything does when the government starts "fixing it". I heard an established physician say he made $23K last year. That's right: twenty-three thousand dollars for 19+ years of education and training. Think you're bitter?

Edited February 12, 2008 by Wally