Silver State ships for sale.

[FlyNHighNFast]

Check out the listing at Sky Helicopters A lot of them are run out, but there are some great time builders in there, if you can get a loan for one.

[HeloJunkie]

Check out the listing at Sky Helicopters A lot of them are run out, but there are some great time builders in there, if you can get a loan for one.

 

 

Also, RHC does not appear to be sitting around holding on to the old Silver State ships in its inventory. Yesterday afternoon a brand new R22 in Silver State livery with a SH tail number was delivered to Civic Helicopters in Carlsbad (KCRQ) for use there to pick up the slack caused by an influx of new students (maybe even from Silver State)! How apropos.

[freebird1401]

From the web site:

 

Each helicopter will undergo an annual inspection at our facility as part of the sale.

 

792SH 3723 4049.3 350.7 $68,811

816SH 3764 3112.7 1287.3 $133,405

832SH 3796 2856 1544 $151,108

833SH 3797 3046.5 1353.5 $137,970

 

So as i understand it I will pay the price listed on the web site and that is to include a annual inspection by a Robinson service center?

Is this another one of Jerry's Scams, there is NO WAY anyone can guarantee a price before doing the job. BEWARE BEWARE BEWARE

If you are interested in this SCAM do not give any money before a complete check by YOUR mechanic.

[adam32]

From the web site:

 

Each helicopter will undergo an annual inspection at our facility as part of the sale.

 

792SH 3723 4049.3 350.7 $68,811

816SH 3764 3112.7 1287.3 $133,405

832SH 3796 2856 1544 $151,108

833SH 3797 3046.5 1353.5 $137,970

 

So as i understand it I will pay the price listed on the web site and that is to include a annual inspection by a Robinson service center?

Is this another one of Jerry's Scams, there is NO WAY anyone can guarantee a price before doing the job. BEWARE BEWARE BEWARE

If you are interested in this SCAM do not give any money before a complete check by YOUR mechanic.

 

Nope not a scam by Jerry, he has nothing to do with the sales (as far as I know). The trustee, lawyers, and broker (Sky) are trying to figure everything out. As of yesterday, they are going to do an annual, then price them and put them up for sale. They just haven't updated the website yet. There are about 6 of them that I have my eye on, so I've been in contact with Sky for the last couple of weeks.

Edited April 5, 2008 by adam32

[Witch]

Can someone loan me $60,000?

 

Pleeeeezzzzzeeeeeeeee.

 

Later

[greals]

A quick sum shows that the prices all work out at a zero hour R22 being valued at $196,350 and devalued by $68.97 per hour on the Hobbs.

 

Not being too familiar with the current used R22 market how does the zero hour value rate and is the depreciation figure pretty much on the mark??

 

Greals

[Goldy]

As of yesterday, they are going to do an annual, then price them and put them up for sale. They just haven't updated the website yet. There are about 6 of them that I have my eye on, so I've been in contact with Sky for the last couple of weeks.

 

I've sent an email over to Sky, but no response yet. So, does that mean the price currently shown is going to increase based on what they find doing an annual? If so, thats not the way I read their website..of course it says they will do the annual, it doesnt say who is paying for it.

 

Personally, I would either get a worn out ship ready for OH or a real low timer. However I still think the ships are a bit overpriced for the market. Look at this one as an example:

459SH 4034 2379.9 2020.1 $ 183,943 250XL, audio panel, vertical card compass, digital clock, ELT

 

I bought a BII a few months ago, also with 2000 remaining, however it was brand new with 200 total time, not 2379 hours ! It also had more options, better GPS, Turn/bank, artificail horizon, etc..and I paid 175K in the open market. So a ship like 459SH in my mind is worth more like 160 than 185. But I guess that is just my opinion.

 

I havent seen the list shrink either, just more R22's for sale..I say keep waiting !

 

Witch- What the heck would 60K buy you ?

[adam32]

I've sent an email over to Sky, but no response yet. So, does that mean the price currently shown is going to increase based on what they find doing an annual? If so, thats not the way I read their website..of course it says they will do the annual, it doesnt say who is paying for it.

 

Personally, I would either get a worn out ship ready for OH or a real low timer. However I still think the ships are a bit overpriced for the market. Look at this one as an example:

459SH 4034 2379.9 2020.1 $ 183,943 250XL, audio panel, vertical card compass, digital clock, ELT

 

I bought a BII a few months ago, also with 2000 remaining, however it was brand new with 200 total time, not 2379 hours ! It also had more options, better GPS, Turn/bank, artificail horizon, etc..and I paid 175K in the open market. So a ship like 459SH in my mind is worth more like 160 than 185. But I guess that is just my opinion.

 

I havent seen the list shrink either, just more R22's for sale..I say keep waiting !

 

Witch- What the heck would 60K buy you ?

 

The haven't actually sold any yet. I think they have moved 119 or so to Skys base. They are going to try and start doing annuals this weekend. The annual will be included in the price of the ship. She told me to call back beginning of the week to see what they have figured out for sure. She said the trustee and lawyers have changed everything a few times, and shes just trying to get everything figured out too. Sky has been pretty good at getting back to my e-mails, so I'm sure you will get a response soon.

[freebird1401]

I keep getting this feeling that something isn't right, so far I have heard Sky has all these buyers lined up and was waiting for the Attorneys to release them, then they were released and no buyers so far? If I was a buyer I would be down there picking out the helicopter I want. Why can't the helicopters be bought AS-IS, WHERE-IS, Remember SSH maintenance was poor to lousy,(they killed a instructor due to maintenance) and I would want my mechanic to do the annual not someone who has a financial interest in moving helicopters(Sky). According to this web site Sky is a small operation, maybe they bit off more than they can chew.

[Goldy]

Freebird- While I dont know people at SKY, I know people that know people at SKY ! From what I have heard, I am perfectly fine with them doing the annual. I don't think there are people lined up to buy 125 used R22's.....not at the listed prices.

[freebird1401]

Freebird- While I dont know people at SKY, I know people that know people at SKY ! From what I have heard, I am perfectly fine with them doing the annual. I don't think there are people lined up to buy 125 used R22's.....not at the listed prices.

 

I have nothing personal against Sky, all I'm saying is this does not sound like the way you liquidate 100+ helicopters. Sky is in it to make money and there is nothing wrong with that, I just got the feeling that Orix wanted to sell the helicopters as quick as possible and I guarantee this is not the way to do it.

[Witch]

Witch- What the heck would 60K buy you ?

Well, I kinda figured I could get one of the timed out ones for $40k, and use the other $20k to rebuild it. I then would lease it to my school for a little less than what they rent, and pocket the money, until the insurance and maintenance bills show up.

 

Kind of a pipe dream I guess.

 

Later

[Copterpilot213]

I keep getting this feeling that something isn't right, so far I have heard Sky has all these buyers lined up and was waiting for the Attorneys to release them, then they were released and no buyers so far? If I was a buyer I would be down there picking out the helicopter I want. Why can't the helicopters be bought AS-IS, WHERE-IS, Remember SSH maintenance was poor to lousy,(they killed a instructor due to maintenance) and I would want my mechanic to do the annual not someone who has a financial interest in moving helicopters(Sky). According to this web site Sky is a small operation, maybe they bit off more than they can chew.

 

 

That was the maintenance at one specific location. You can't just make a blanket statement like that (well you can... but...), SSH mechanics are working all over the nation at other places now and I'm sure a lot of them are very professional and good at what they do.

 

I do see what your saying though, if I were buying one of the ships for sale I'd have an A&P I know and trust do a thorough check before purchase.

[ADRidge]

Well, I kinda figured I could get one of the timed out ones for $40k, and use the other $20k to rebuild it. I then would lease it to my school for a little less than what they rent, and pocket the money, until the insurance and maintenance bills show up.

 

Kind of a pipe dream I guess.

 

Later

 

You can get a robbie OH'ed for 20 grand?! We need to talk....

[Eggbeater]

That was the maintenance at one specific location. You can't just make a blanket statement like that (well you can... but...), SSH mechanics are working all over the nation at other places now and I'm sure a lot of them are very professional and good at what they do.

 

I do see what your saying though, if I were buying one of the ships for sale I'd have an A&P I know and trust do a thorough check before purchase.

 

The problem seemed evenly split between the maintenance worker's improper re-assembly and the lack of oversight and adequate staffing at the Silver State location. To quote the NTSB report:

 

"The company was understaffed with maintenance personnel. According to the company's maintenance quality control program, any maintenance completed on a helicopter was to be inspected by another mechanic. A review of the program revealed that the mechanics were not following the program, and the company was not providing oversight and enforcing the program."

 

The lack of oversight and staffing is one of the most worrying aspects of that accident. Company protocol and oversight are both there to catch the mistakes like the one that happened. Lack of staffing in one area is indicative of possible lack of staffing in multiple locations, and when it comes to your life, it would be better to assume the worst (that all locations had the same lack of oversight/staffing), whether it was true or not.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but it seemed to me that the majority of the blame lay with the company's policies. I think all of us know how easy it is to make a mistake, especially when the pressure is on or we are feeling rushed. Not to say the maintenance doesn't bear responsibility for his actions, but he does in this case share it.

[Copterpilot213]

Good points Eggbeater, I re-read freebird's post and see that it might be more about company policies than mechanics specifically.

 

In general though, no matter who I'd be getting the helicopters from or who owned it previously I'd always have an A&P that I trust look it over.

 

P.S. Also I understand what you were saying freebird, I'd want my mechanic to do the annual as well. Guess it's just part of the deal though, maybe this is how they are making their money in this?

Edited April 7, 2008 by Copterpilot213

[rick1128]

Well, I kinda figured I could get one of the timed out ones for $40k, and use the other $20k to rebuild it. I then would lease it to my school for a little less than what they rent, and pocket the money, until the insurance and maintenance bills show up.

 

Kind of a pipe dream I guess.

 

Later

 

If you are discussing the 2200 hour overhaul. I would refigure. The overhaul kit from Robinson is approx $68500 and can only be purchased by an authorized Robinson service center. Robinson charges $125000 to do the overhaul plus extras. It is my understanding that the tailcone is good for 4400 hours and is considered an extra. The other places I talked with average 100 to 110000 plus extras. Then look what freshly overhauled Robinson's are going for on the open market. It really doesn't make much sense.

[ADRidge]

I dunno, comparing prices, with overhaul at 100k, some of those birds would save you about 20-40k.

[rick1128]

I dunno, comparing prices, with overhaul at 100k, some of those birds would save you about 20-40k.

 

Looking through Trade-A-Plane I am finding R22Betas of around the same age bracket running 150 to 165K with fresh or fairly fresh overhauls. The prices that Sky and BK agent are asking are running 45 to 55K for a runout. So I don't believe you will save that much. Personally I believe that their asking price is way out of line, but as is proven every day on Ebay, there are enough people out there willing to pay too much that it might work for them. Also keep in mind that like any inspection that you may get nasty surprises.

[ironranger]

If you are discussing the 2200 hour overhaul. I would refigure. The overhaul kit from Robinson is approx $68500 and can only be purchased by an authorized Robinson service center. Robinson charges $125000 to do the overhaul plus extras. It is my understanding that the tailcone is good for 4400 hours and is considered an extra. The other places I talked with average 100 to 110000 plus extras. Then look what freshly overhauled Robinson's are going for on the open market. It really doesn't make much sense.

 

On top of that overhaul kit you have to add an additional 25k for an exchange engine. I guess there is something about getting a good deal at someone elses expense (the ssh students) that rubs me wrong. Maybe I would think differently if the money from the sale would help out the students but I don't think it will.

 

ironranger

[adam32]

On top of that overhaul kit you have to add an additional 25k for an exchange engine. I guess there is something about getting a good deal at someone elses expense (the ssh students) that rubs me wrong. Maybe I would think differently if the money from the sale would help out the students but I don't think it will.

 

ironranger

 

I don't think any of the money will make it to the students either. It would be nice if it does.

[Witch]

Maybe the students ought to get the helicopters as compensation?

 

Oh, as for the overhaul, like I said-pipe dream.

 

Later

[Goldy]

Maybe the students ought to get the helicopters as compensation?

 

Oh, as for the overhaul, like I said-pipe dream.

 

Later

 

 

Geez, checkbook in hand and I can't get a simple email responded to. Maybe thats why they still have most of them for sale after a month.

[adam32]

Geez, checkbook in hand and I can't get a simple email responded to. Maybe thats why they still have most of them for sale after a month.

 

 

I can't believe that. They responded to me every time. Just give Connie a call. She's answered every time I've called and we usually end up talking for like 20-30 minutes. I haven't talked with her in about 2 weeks though, so I'm not sure what it happening with them now.

[DieselBoy]

Just give them a call. I believe they are giving them fresh Annuals before they sell them, so it will take a while to move them. Some might have been disassembled for transportation too.