Instrument Rating

[mikeconti]

I just completed ten hours of instrument flight needed to obtain my Commercial Rating. I am unsure at this time if I want to use the R22 instrument trainer currently available to me for my Instrument Rating. I have searched high and low for an instrument ship (helicopter) that I feel will prepare me for real world instrument conditions. What are my options? The consensus leans towards IFR training in a fixed wing aircraft, however I hold no fixed wing ratings and cannot afford to waste time/money building hours in an airplane. Also, I had planned on using the 20 hours of approved simulator time but cannot find Helicopter Sims in my area (New York City/Long Island). My question: What should be my main concern while learning instrument flight in a helicopter? I want to be proficient. What are employers looking for in an Instrument Rated Commercial Pilot.

[me shakes fist]

Also, I had planned on using the 20 hours of approved simulator time but cannot find Helicopter Sims in my area (New York City/Long Island).

According to their site, Helicopter Flight Training out at MacArthur Airport has a simulator. I've never been there or flown with them so I can't comment on quality. I've actually been trying to get in contact with them to start my instrument training, but they won't return my calls or email. Where did you do those 10 hours of instrument?

[Ian888]

I just completed ten hours of instrument flight needed to obtain my Commercial Rating. I am unsure at this time if I want to use the R22 instrument trainer currently available to me for my Instrument Rating. I have searched high and low for an instrument ship (helicopter) that I feel will prepare me for real world instrument conditions. What are my options? The consensus leans towards IFR training in a fixed wing aircraft, however I hold no fixed wing ratings and cannot afford to waste time/money building hours in an airplane. Also, I had planned on using the 20 hours of approved simulator time but cannot find Helicopter Sims in my area (New York City/Long Island). My question: What should be my main concern while learning instrument flight in a helicopter? I want to be proficient. What are employers looking for in an Instrument Rated Commercial Pilot.

 

If you don't mind a little cross country time I can recommend "Northeast helicopters" of Ellington, CT. They have an excellent record of helicopter instrument training. The last I heard they had a good simulator.

Ian.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

There are not a whole lot of companies doing actual instrument flying. Where will you find some that do? Some EMS programs operate Single Pilot IFR. The other large sector flying IFR would be in the Gulf of Mexico. Other corporate flight departments may also fly IFR.

 

If IFR flying is something you are really interested in then I would recommend getting your CFII and flight instruct as much as you can to instrument students. Most instrument programs at flight schools will use either the R-22, R-44 or the S300CBi. The R-44 is a good ship to learn in. It's the most stable of the 4 listed. They may also use a non-motion simulator as well for you to learn basics and procedures. After flight instructing you can go to the Gulf and bid your way into a S76 or simular IFR aircraft as a SIC then upgrade to Captain after you gain expierance. Then you'll be able to builf IFR time.

 

If you are not interested in hard core IFR flying and just want to fly VFR(most common) then just get your CFII and flight instruct. Then you can move on when you are ready.

 

Employers just want you to have your instrument rating in case you do end up in the soup then you will have that training to fall back on. When you get hired for a Part 135 job, they will train you and do some IFR flying. Mostly just to train you on how to get out of a bad situation should you get in the clouds. If the aircraft they place you in has a full IFR panel, they may even train you again to do some IFR approaches.

 

So, don't worry too much about actual IFR time for training. Just do your instrument training and you'll be fine. Just make sure to keep it current. That is easy to do though.

 

I didn't go down to the Gulf and fly only VFR. However, I am looking to get into EMS in the future and I haven't ruled out the IFR programs. I am fixed wing rated and am going to add on my instrument rating. I'll then be able to get some actual IFR time and balance my resume out a little bit. That is something else to think about. You don't have to do it right away. It is not as expensive as you think to add on.

[heligirl03]

I just finished my full 40hrs of Instrument in the R22. The ship matters less than the knowledge at this point. No one is going to put you full IMC based on your 40hrs of training, they are going to check you out in whatever you will be flying for them when you get there, and you'll no doubt have at least 2k more hours by then anyway. The R22 is a squirrely little bugger to hold on an ILS but it gets the job done and is cost-effective....the only reason to choose another ship for training would be necessity, e.g. weight or availability. IFR training is tedious and headache-producing but in the end I loved it and wouldn't change a thing. Enjoy!!

[rick1128]

You will find that the instrument training will make you a more precise helicopter pilot. That and long line experience/training. I fly both FW and RW and found that the helicopter instrument training also positively affected my FW instrument flying. Many companies want their pilots to have this rating as it is a contract requirement for many of the contract they hold and/or bid. Some of the large oil companies (Chevron, Shell, etc.)have take careful looks at the helicopter accidents that have effected their operations (their own and contract helicopters) and made policy changes on their helicopter operations. multi engine, turbine IFR helicopters, two IFR pilots, and so on. And other companies are taking notice. Personally I believe that in the near future, you will start seeing requirements for Helicopter ATPs increase at a much high rate.

[mikeconti]

Thanks for your responses. I think I'm beginning to understand. It was unclear to me how most operations operate (if you will) and what will be required of me when the time comes. I do plan on getting my CFII eventually; I just want to make sure that I'm learning with the best possible equipment. I guess I was being unrealistic in hoping to see a trainer with state of the art avionics (like some of the newer fixed wing trainers for half the price): I'll make sure to get the most of what is available to me, and absorb everything I can in order to build a strong foundation. Thanks again for the input.

 

Another question, tell me what you think of this: Simulator time; although it is cheeper does it not make more sense to fly all of my required hours (in the helicopter) while building P.I.C. as I go and practice on Flight simulator? Or should I continue with my original plan-find an approved simulator and sit down with the instructor for 20 hours.? Save money-waste time or pay a little more while building hours?

 

Me Shakes Fist- I think we might have bumped into each other a few times last summer. 43Y and 02K in FRG (L.I.H.) those bums!! I heard it through the grapevine that Helicopter Flight Training in ISP will be without a CFII within the next month (not sure how true it is). Islip's simulator is inoperative. That's where I did my hours. Nothing wrong with the helicopter or the Instructors, I was just concerned that it was not fully equipped. (not the case as it turns out).

 

Ian888- Northeast Helicopters has a nice website; I'll have to see for myself.

 

JDHelicopterPilot- Thank you for the advice, It's always good to hear how it is from a seasoned pilot.

 

Heligirl03- Congrats on finishing your 40 instrument hours! Have fun trying to keep that thing on the approach path. I'll take you advice.

 

Rick1128- I've definitely noticed a difference in my flying already. Looking forward to what the future holds!

[Oil Pilot]

At this point, you know how to fly the helicopter. Most simulators I have had the experience of working with are much less forgiving than the actual helicopter and once you can fly one of them, getting back into the helicopter and polishing everything up goes pretty smoothly. Find an approved sim, get your 20 hours, then go finish up in the helicopter.

[me shakes fist]

Me Shakes Fist- I think we might have bumped into each other a few times last summer. 43Y and 02K in FRG (L.I.H.) those bums!! I heard it through the grapevine that Helicopter Flight Training in ISP will be without a CFII within the next month (not sure how true it is). Islip's simulator is inoperative. That's where I did my hours. Nothing wrong with the helicopter or the Instructors, I was just concerned that it was not fully equipped. (not the case as it turns out).

Definitely possible. I did most of my time in 43Y. Then when they took my money and ran I finished up in 02K and got my private on 1/31.

 

I finally got in touch with an instructor at Helicopter Flight Training yesterday who was going to have the CFII call me, but so far nothing. He told me the same thing you heard about the CFII leaving in a month. Hopefully someone else there gets their CFII or they hire another one.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

A simulator is a great tool for IFR training. There really is no point in doing everything in the helicopter.

 

The best way really I think, is to demonstrate a new procedure in the simulator, practice it and then do in the aircraft for real.

 

I am fixed wing rated as well. The reason they can progress faster in avionics is that it is cheaper and easier to do so in a plane. Helicopters are already really expensive to operate. Also the weight issue is there as well. I really did wish we had a glass panel instrument R-22 or R-44 out there for us to do our IFR training. It is the way of the future and I think schools will have to catch up. There is a company that will install a glass panel for the R-44 but it's expensive of course. Some day.

 

In the mean time, you'll be just fine if you do your training in a R-22 or R-44 or the like.

[Node]

As far a a simulator goes its a good bang for your buck. I used a fly it simulator and it was a pain in the but to fly, but great practice. If you can hold that thing steady then even the R22 on the ILS is easy! I did my instrument after my CFI so I did most of my instrument helicopter time (25 hours or so) during my commercial. A lot of schools are going to 44's for instrument trainers so if you plan on teaching instrument in robbies this is the best time to get the 44 hours plus build pic time towards commercial. Thats the best way to maximize your $$. I did 14 hours in the sim ( had little $$ at this point) to get proficient again and then just a couple of flights in the helicopter before the check ride. Worked for me!!

A few other guys flew fixed wing so they could get actual IFR. Actual is good stuff if you can get it, specially for us helo guys (even if it means flying a slab wing ). Good luck!

[v15x]

I don't think Northeast helicopters has a "logable" simulator... They do the IFR training in the R22 and they have a few skinny instructors.