Hillsboro Aviation or Precision??

Heliboss · April 25, 2008

I’m looking for a school in the Portland area where I can pursue privet to CFII. I have narrowed my search to Hillsboro and Precision. I have visited both and I’m having trouble deciding which one is for me and my future career.

Initially I am more attracted to Precision. Their operation is smaller than Hillsboro’s and seems more personal. Of course that can be good and bad depending on how well you get along with everybody, but personally smaller is what I prefer when it comes to training.

Precision’s airstrip is also personally owned and appears to have limited traffic. I’m not sure if this is an issue or not. I like the idea of training in a relaxed environment away from a FAA control tower, but worry that limited exposure to controlled airports / airspace could present problems in the future. In addition Precision exclusively uses Schweitzer and this is where my greatest concern lies.

While I have no burning desire to fly the R22, and in truth I feel more comfortable sitting in the 300C a lot of schools have the 22s and my understanding is you need 200 total hrs in the R22 to instruct in it?? Not sure how many hours you need as PIC. So it seems to me to instruct in one you would have to spend the majority of your own training in one?

So ultimately how much if at all would flying only in the Schweitzer limit me when it comes to finding a CFI/CFII job? Obviously I would want to work where I trained but if for some reason that was not an option. How would I fair? How are people doing finding jobs as instructors in just the Schweitzer?

Thanks guys

rick1128 · April 25, 2008

Hillsboro Aviation or Precision??

I’m looking for a school in the Portland area where I can pursue privet to CFII. I have narrowed my search to Hillsboro and Precision. I have visited both and I’m having trouble deciding which one is for me and my future career.

Initially I am more attracted to Precision. Their operation is smaller than Hillsboro’s and seems more personal. Of course that can be good and bad depending on how well you get along with everybody, but personally smaller is what I prefer when it comes to training.

Precision’s airstrip is also personally owned and appears to have limited traffic. I’m not sure if this is an issue or not. I like the idea of training in a relaxed environment away from a FAA control tower, but worry that limited exposure to controlled airports / airspace could present problems in the future. In addition Precision exclusively uses Schweitzer and this is where my greatest concern lies.

While I have no burning desire to fly the R22, and in truth I feel more comfortable sitting in the 300C a lot of schools have the 22s and my understanding is you need 200 total hrs in the R22 to instruct in it?? Not sure how many hours you need as PIC. So it seems to me to instruct in one you would have to spend the majority of your own training in one?

So ultimately how much if at all would flying only in the Schweitzer limit me when it comes to finding a CFI/CFII job? Obviously I would want to work where I trained but if for some reason that was not an option. How would I fair? How are people doing finding jobs as instructors in just the Schweitzer?

Thanks guys

As long as you are willing to move, training in a Schweitzer should not present a major road block. I know of one pilot who did all his training in an Enstrom in SE Texas. He is presently instructing in SW Colorado in Enstroms. So it can be done. I did my Commercial add-on and CFI at Precision and was reasonably happy with them. Like all schools, they tend to hire their graduates first. A plus is that they have a good reputation in the industry. Two of my former instructors moved on to turbine jobs.

I did look at Hillsboro. My major issues with them were they seemed more interested in the foreign (full time) students, then people like myself, who could only do it part time. Also they quoted an hourly rate, then when you agreed that you liked the rate, they would hit you with a fuel surcharge. Which actually made Precision's rates about the same as Hillboro's.

I did have some issues at Precision. Communications with the students could stand some improvement. Also the way they scheduled their helicopters, could leave students without helicopters due to maintenance coming due on a weekend.

Dennis, the owner is a DPE for all the ratings. The FAA requires that the initial CFI checkride be done by an FAA inspector. However, since the checkride again requires full down autos, the Feds normally will just observe the ride. Precision also uses Mark a locally based EMS pilot as a DPE. Both are excellent examiners, and I have learned much during my rides with them.

As for busy airports, They will take you into Salem and Hillsboro which are tower controlled airports and Portland Int'l which is a Class B airport. so don't worry about that, you will get enough ATC experience. Plus if you hang around the airport enough, you will also meet some of Precision's utility pilots and get some real life information.

Just remember, this is school. Your real learning starts when you get your first job.

The folks at Precision are quite friendly. I have run into Dennis and his wife at two different Heliexpo's and they remembered me and made a point to say hello.

Edited April 25, 2008 by rick1128

Ty_Burlingham · April 26, 2008

I know those are the two bigger names around the Portland area, but don't over look the smaller schools around; like Sunset Helicopters. It's located in Aurora, aircraft being used are a Schweizer 300 C, MD 500, and a Bell-206. I personally have around 500 hours in a R-22/R-44, and I wish that I would have flown a schweizer more, mostly becuase it's a real working helicopter.

It's in your best interest to go to as many schools as you can, sit down and talk with them, and go with the one that your most comfortable with. Rule number one is, if you don't feel secure, you won't learn! Anyway, thats my 2 cents, good luck with finding a school that fits you!

C.R.O. · April 27, 2008

It's hard when a person asks "Either A. or B.", really because everyone is different.

I looked at both, as well as others, but those two were the two I placed most emphasis on. I visited both, and asked people in the industry their opinions of both.

I ended up at Hillsboro, and I am glad I did because I feel that it's a better school for me. That's not to say it's going to be the "better school" for everyone, but it is for me.

I felt that Hillsboro was a better fit for my part-time availability, which was 3-4 times per week, and so far it has worked very well. I am almost done with my commercial, and should finish the program in July, so it will be just right at 12 months from start to finish.

There are a lot of foreign students, but I have never had any issue regarding that, and have personally never seen them get any special advantage or treatment over domestic students. In fact, the domestic students have the opportunity to fly out of the Troutdale facility, which has more patterns.

As for busy airports, They will take you into Salem and Hillsboro which are tower controlled airports and Portland Int'l which is a Class B airport. so don't worry about that, you will get enough ATC experience.

Class Charlie.

Edited April 27, 2008 by C.R.O.

tattooed · April 27, 2008

I agree with comments above...schools are different, people are different, and your personal needs and learning style may match one school and not the other. I'd go visit all of them, and talk to students as well. You will hear a different story often when you talk to students.

I have been at Hillsboro since November. I'm almost done with my PVT (been a LONG road due to bad weather and my work schedule), but well worth it. I love Hillsboro. Been a great school for me. I enjoy having alot of students around me as I learn things from everyone. There are many different instructors...some good, some bad, some awesome...all with different experiences and backgrounds.....and there's such a wealth of information available.

I am in the same boat as CRO...I work part time, so I can only be at the airport a few times a week, and my instructor has been very understanding and flexible with my "creative" work schedule.

Personally, I am really enjoying the "International Flavor" we have with all the international students....I have many new friends, most of them German, and it's quite a friendly family! I have no problem hooking up with people for small study groups.

Edited April 27, 2008 by tattooed

skier · April 27, 2008

I know for helicopter, this may not be much of an issue since taxiing is flying, but with fixed wing, I've found I like untowered airports more for training as there is less time spent on the ground.

When looking for a place to rent aircraft where I am now (upstate, NY), I started at a class C airport. It was too much for me. I found a class D airport and have been renting from them recently. For my private training 4 years ago I went to a few class C and class D airports and regularly flew through class B airspace, but after my private I avoided them (I like the smaller airports more). After about 5-10 hours flying out of the class D airport, I've finally started to feel comfortable with towers again.

My friend got his private at the class C airport I mentioned above. The smallest airport he has flown to had about a 5000 foot long runway. He is very comfortable at controlled airport, but not very comfortable at uncontrolled airports.

The main point I'm trying to make is that I wouldn't worry too much about what type of airport you're flying out of. At the end of your training you may end up being more comfortable at one type of airport than the other, but you will understand both enough to fly safely from either.

ToTall · April 27, 2008

Heliboss

I do have to agree with Ty.

I went to HAI and its a good school but if you wanna go trough the factory flying.

I think that a small flight school will give you a more feeling of the "real world" flying

and as soon as you have you private you can rent a helicopter and take you folks with

you on a flight.

And a small school will not charge you for everything but then again you need to find

a school and instructors that you like.

Good luck and welcome to the fun of flying helicopters.

TT

tattooed · April 28, 2008

I respectfully and politely disagree with ToTall & skier.

In regards to Towered vs Non-towered: Personally, I'd rather learn at a towered, safe airport like HIO. You may only need to spend at extra minute on the ground waiting for clearance...not a big deal. For your 1st flights, your instructor does those calls, and you listen and learn. No big deal. Talking to tower is easy. They are there to help you and keep you safe. They are also very nice people. I have visted our tower, and it was a great learning experience. Also, learning at a towered airport will make you that much more comfortable with radio. Frankly, I am more comfortable talking to ATC than unicom! At least I know exactly what to say, and someone will talk back to me and tell me what to do.

I also feel alot safer when I have tower watching over my shoulder. I don't trust them 100% to keep me out of harms way...that is my job...but they do increase your margin of safety. Knowing what I know now, I am SOOOOO glad I am training at a busy, towered airport.

Ingards to "factory" school: I'm still not sure what people mean by that....but I admit I have nothing to compare to. (ToTall may have had a different experience than I). I think SSH was more that way, but I don't get that at all with HAI. You are paired up with a single instructor (but are free to fly with other CFI's if needed/disired...which I recommend highly) and your instructor taylors your training to YOU. I do not feel rushed. I have become friends with my CFI, and I respect him immensely. Other than the lastest wx issues, we have lots of areas to fly, many local airports to go practice at, and our infamous "West Practice Area" to do maneuvers at 2000'.

We have lots of different helicopters to schedule...everyone eventually finds their favorites...I certainly have mine.

The staff is friendly, and I don't feel like I'm being "nickle and dimed". Fees are all printed in your "packet" you receive when you meet the admissions director (who, by the way, is such a great guy...been around and is super friendly). I admittedly buy all my books on Amazon or eBay for a fraction of the cost. And yes, HAI lets you take friends/family once you are...I believe...10 hours beyond your PVT, or you can just rent a/c and go. Alot of people do their solo x/c time in commercial with a buddy. Heck, that is how I got hooked on the school...went with a friend on his x/c trip, and within a month, I had my loan and was ready to go!

Like I said, go visit schools, and make your choiced based on what you are comfortable with. If you are interested, I would be happy to meet you and introduce you to HAI people. I'm sure CRO would be happy to help as well. There are quite a few HAI people on this forum. All good folk.

I am really looking forward to finishing up the program and becoming a CFI. I plan to stay with HAI for awhile if I can. I'm very comfortable there.

C.R.O. · April 28, 2008

I'm sure CRO would be happy to help as well.

Yup. I would be more than willing to help out and show someone around the school, and introduce them around. It really is a good group of people out there right now.

I also disagree with the "pilot factory" comments I have heard before. It just hasn't been my experience.

Each CFI has a different teaching style, which is tweaked to each students learning style. I know that my primary CFI teaches me a little different than he teaches another student.

Is the course structured? Ofcourse. Most of us are doing 141 which means that flights are done in a specific order. That is the nature of doing a 141 course. But, students could go Part 61 instead, and actually, during commercial, that's what most of us do. I liked 141 for my Private rating, but 61 works better for commercial.

Conor

ben_davenport · April 28, 2008

Heliboss,

I will weigh in with my obviously biased opinion. (I trained and now work as instructor at Precision.) I don't think that the towered vs. non-towered airport issue is very important. As tattooed mentioned, once you learn to talk to tower it is easy and it is nice to have someone watching out for you. It's an important skill to have. It is an equally important skill to be able to communicate at non-towered airports. This is also easy once you know what to say and what to look for.

As you know, we fly out of our own little airport and traffic is rarely an issue. We can do pretty much what we want and adjust our pattern as we please. As Rick said, when we need to get to a busy, towered airport we have three nearby that we fly to on a regular basis.

I don't want to get into an R-22 vs. S300C debate, but the 300C is more powerful and it allows us to land in and get out of tighter spots. We also offer longline training in the 300 and 500. There are not very many schools that offer this type of training.

As everyone else mentioned, go where you feel comfortable and get along with the staff. That is the most important aspect of getting good training. I remember sitting down the C.R.O. and talking to him about training. I am sorry that he didn't choose us, but I am happy that he did find the right fit for his training needs. The Portland area is a great place to fly and all the schools in this area provide high quality training.

Good luck and I hope to see you flying soon.

Ben

rick1128 · April 28, 2008

Precision is also a Part 141 school. Most 141 schools are not 'pilot factories'. However, Part 141 doesn't give you some of the flexibility that Part 61 training gives you. In many areas that lack can make it difficult for the student to progress under Part 141. You are not permitted to skip phases and then go back and do them. The lessons need to be done in order. While Part 141 requires phase checks, many Part 61 schools do them also. It is a good practice.

As for a towered airport being safer than a non-towered airport. I have had more close calls at towered airports than I have had a non-towered airports. Also at HIO guess who they have in the tower? That's right student (trainee) controllers.

As for some of the smaller schools like Applebee and the folks down at Aurora, keep in mind that many schools have only one trainer, so when it goes down for maintenance, you're SOL. Also many of these schools only teach the Private, Commercial and CFI. The do not do the Instrument and CFII training. More and more the Instrument rating is becoming a mandatory rating.

aclark79 · April 28, 2008

Precision is also a Part 141 school. Most 141 schools are not 'pilot factories'. However, Part 141 doesn't give you some of the flexibility that Part 61 training gives you. In many areas that lack can make it difficult for the student to progress under Part 141. You are not permitted to skip phases and then go back and do them. The lessons need to be done in order. While Part 141 requires phase checks, many Part 61 schools do them also. It is a good practice.

I don't get involved in the 'what school is better debate' since I'm clearly biased, as an employee of Hillsboro. I've worked at a small 61 school in Long Island NY and I've worked at a large 141/61 school in Oregon and I know which one I perfer.

Regarding the inflexibility of 141, its just not true. Lessons are meant to be done in order, but it is possible to deviate from the order. All the instructor has to do is place a deviation request in front of the chief. I've never seen a deviation turned down. The sylabus then follows the path that the deviation states. For example, lesson 8 might be a cross country but weather is preventing you from leaving the airport... you put in a request to move on and come back to it, problem solved.

Regarding the structure... funny enough, when I was at a 61 school my boss had me teach the 141 sylabus... essentially following the same lessons I would have followed if I had been 141, just without as much paperwork.

The 141 sylabus is set up in an inteligent and rational progression that has worked for hundreds of pilots, for the few needing a deviation its done without issue.

Go visit the schools again, talk to the students and see what they say, as long as you make your choice and feel good about it you'll be at the right school.

C.R.O. · April 28, 2008

I remember sitting down the C.R.O. and talking to him about training. I am sorry that he didn't choose us, but I am happy that he did find the right fit for his training needs. The Portland area is a great place to fly and all the schools in this area provide high quality training.

Ben

Yeah, I remember sitting down with you, and I was very impressed with Precision's operation.

As mentioned before, I felt that Hillsboro was a better choice for me, but that doesn't mean that it will be the best choice for everyone. Each person needs to make that decision based on their situation, needs, learning style and personality.

It's a tough decision for anyone when they are picking a school, especially when you have two schools very close by that both have solid reputations within the industry. It's a good situation really.

BTW, go ahead and call me Conor. When I signed up here years ago, I just used my initials, but if I had the choice, I would switch the name to just Conor.

Heliboss · April 29, 2008

Thanks for all the great feed back guys.

I agree this is a good situation to have, two good schools that I can’t decide between.

I’m very concerned about finding work when I finish. In some ways I feel like I’m jumping the gun a bit, but career is important. More specifically how does the job market look for R22 vs. 300 instructors? I’m not looking for the typical which is a better trainer argument but more of your personal experiences looking for CFI/CFII in the R22 or 300.

Thanks

C.R.O. · April 29, 2008

I’m very concerned about finding work when I finish. In some ways I feel like I’m jumping the gun a bit, but career is important. More specifically how does the job market look for R22 vs. 300 instructors? I’m not looking for the typical which is a better trainer argument but more of your personal experiences looking for CFI/CFII in the R22 or 300.

Thanks

I can't give you an honest answer regarding the job market between the R-22 and the 300, so I won't even try. But, I will tell you that according to Robinson Helicopter, they are putting out 5 R-44's for every R-22 going out the door.

So it might be a good idea to add the R-44 into this discussion as well, if you are looking at a marketability standpoint.

Conor

tattooed · April 29, 2008

Me, I'm going for answer D) ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Guess I need a bigger loan.

Edited April 29, 2008 by tattooed

ToTall · April 29, 2008

I do have the experience regarding 22 via 300 and if you are looking to get a job as a CFI right away u have to choose the 22 even that 300 is a better trainer and choose a school where you most likely get a job.

The helicopter industry is a industry with a lot of talk and little action so learn one thing as soon as possible that you should believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

I wish you luck in your future job and have fun during training.

TT

relyon · April 30, 2008

Regarding the inflexibility of 141, its just not true. Lessons are meant to be done in order, but it is possible to deviate from the order. All the instructor has to do is place a deviation request in front of the chief. I've never seen a deviation turned down. The sylabus then follows the path that the deviation states. For example, lesson 8 might be a cross country but weather is preventing you from leaving the airport... you put in a request to move on and come back to it, problem solved.

Yes, the inflexability is true. There may be an exception procedure but that must be followed as well and that requires yet another process and someone available to approve the deviation. When there is a reason to deviate in Part 61 it's simply done and perhaps noted as such in the student's folder. There is no problem which means there's no problem to solve.

Regarding the structure... funny enough, when I was at a 61 school my boss had me teach the 141 sylabus... essentially following the same lessons I would have followed if I had been 141, just without as much paperwork.

The 141 sylabus is set up in an inteligent and rational progression that has worked for hundreds of pilots, for the few needing a deviation its done without issue.

Teaching Part 61 to a Part 141 syllabus says something and it's not that Part 141 is better. An intelligent and rational learning progression has far more to do with how a given school and/or instructor operates than it does with Part 61 or Part 141. The lack of paperwork is a good thing as well and often frees up the instructor to teach and the student to learn.

In a reputable school with competent instructors, I've never inderstood the advantage to Part 141 for the student. With the possible exception of the instrument rating, rarely are the often quoted minimum hour figures attained at a point where the student is ready to take the practical test. While I realize every case is different and I've not seen it all by far, I know of numerous cases where the structure of a Part 141 progression simply got in the way, usually to the school's and/or instructor's benefit and not the student's.

Bob

aclark79 · May 2, 2008

Yes, the inflexability is true. There may be an exception procedure but that must be followed as well and that requires yet another process and someone available to approve the deviation. When there is a reason to deviate in Part 61 it's simply done and perhaps noted as such in the student's folder. There is no problem which means there's no problem to solve.

I'll agree to disagree . I've never found the need to actually put the deviation in writting to be any kind of issue or limit to my students training. I just don't see it as inflexible. I guess you could say that you have to go through the lessons in order (and that is a kind of inflexibility), but my point about teaching the 141 sylabbus at a 61 school was intended to show that the 141 sylabus (at least at my school), works in the order it is designed. I followed the order there that I follow here even though it wasn't required. The only time I've found a need to deviate was due to weather preventing cross countries. Of course I can also teach item that aren't in the lesson as long as the lesson requierments are met.

Teaching Part 61 to a Part 141 syllabus says something and it's not that Part 141 is better. An intelligent and rational learning progression has far more to do with how a given school and/or instructor operates than it does with Part 61 or Part 141. The lack of paperwork is a good thing as well and often frees up the instructor to teach and the student to learn.

Agreed, teachig the 141 sylabus to 61 students doesn't mean that 141 is better, it means the sylabus your teaching from is better than what most 61 instructors will come up with. Look at most of the instructors in the US teaching helicopter. Excluding the factory schools (Bell, MD etc), most instructors are young and relativly inexperianced. I considered myself to be at a reputable school (when I was 61) and a competent instructor, but without a good sylabus I would have been lost on what to do with my students training. A good 141 sylabus gives the instructor structure and direction. It also forces the instructor to do all the required items, makes sure things aren't forgotten, ensures paperwork is done right, and provides a layer of accountablility within the school by the use of audits, stage checks and final audits.

If I knew of a student who was getting screwed by 141 then I would be upset on thier behalf... I agree that being a 141 school doesn't mean you are a good school for that student, but I do believe that a school is more likely to be good if it is 141 or follows 141 like practices.

Of course even my current 141 school can enroll students as 61, and we do when it makes sense for them... Your right that every case is unique.

IFLY · May 3, 2008

141 schools usually take the GI Bill sooo ... I found a 141 school to help pay for my training

relyon · May 3, 2008

Yes, we can agree to disagree and that's fine as well. I feel you've made numerous sweeping generalizations about flight instructors, training syllabi, flight schools, and Part 61 vs Part 141 programs that I question you have references to support, but I'll not go into that further. One statement caught my eye though:

... I considered myself to be at a reputable school (when I was 61) and a competent instructor, but without a good sylabus I would have been lost on what to do with my students training. ...

This implies to me that, while having trained to be flight instructor, met the aeronautical experience requirements, passed the flight instructor written and practical examinations, and were awarded a flight instructor certificate, you weren't actually ready to instruct. Is that what you meant to state? Am I correct in assuming you know how to direct your student's training without any assistance now (ie. no syllabus, etc.)?

Bob

tattooed · May 3, 2008

Hi Reylon!

Thought I'd pipe in, as it seems peoples reputation/credentials are being questioned.

I am a student at aclark's school....I know him pretty well, and we have numerous mutual friends. He's been with HAI for quite some time, and is our highest time instructor...he is VERY, VERY respected by the other instructors, and trains our CFI's. He's honest, hard working, and just plain fun to be around.

I have never flown with him, but I have friends who have, including one of my best friends who is a former student of his....all speak highly of his skills as a pilot and an instructor.

Hope that makes yah feel better.....and aclark79....don't let your head swell too much when you read this.

aclark79 · May 4, 2008

Yes, we can agree to disagree and that's fine as well. I feel you've made numerous sweeping generalizations about flight instructors, training syllabi, flight schools, and Part 61 vs Part 141 programs that I question you have references to support, but I'll not go into that further. One statement caught my eye though:

This implies to me that, while having trained to be flight instructor, met the aeronautical experience requirements, passed the flight instructor written and practical examinations, and were awarded a flight instructor certificate, you weren't actually ready to instruct. Is that what you meant to state? Am I correct in assuming you know how to direct your student's training without any assistance now (ie. no syllabus, etc.)?

Bob

What I mean Bob, is that like most new instructors who are new to aviation and new to flying, Imy experiance in helicopters was what I had learned in school. I did not have any experiance actually teaching (helicopters) to anyone other than the DPE, the Stage Check Examiner and my CFI from the CFI portion of my flight training. Without a good sylabus I would have done my best, but I know that I did a better job having a stong sylibus to rely on. Thats why my 61 school used the 141 sylabus from the school I trained at. It helped a new and inexperianced instructor (me at the time) to be better at his job. I seriuosly doubt most brand new CFI's are capable of putting together a good training structure on their own. I think I was luckier than most in that I have worked as an instructor before I came to flight school and that helped, but even so I was gratefull for the guidance of the 141 sylabus

Now on to your second part, yes I am a better instructor now than I was 2 years ago when I started instructing. I think 26 out of 27 first try sign offs, over half of those first try were CFI candidates, is a pretty good track record (gold seal on the way). Even now with that experiance level I perfer to use the 141 sylubus developed at my school. Have I ever had to go away from it, yes, for special cases, such as people who come here from other schools and need to be 'finished' but those are the exceptions.

Do you really think a 200 hour pilot with no instruction given is going to be able to put together as good of a course as the pilots who put together a school's 141 program? Maybe its just me, but when I was new I pefered to follow the well laid path of those who had gone before me and done well. Assuredly a good 61 sylabus can be as effective as a good 141 syalbus, I just disagre with your original statement that the 141 sylabus is inflexible.

None of this response is intended to sound like a personal attack and if it does in any way please chaulk it up to the inability to experess body languuge on the internet. I'll assume your comments are meant in the same way.

C.R.O. · May 4, 2008

This implies to me that, while having trained to be flight instructor, met the aeronautical experience requirements, passed the flight instructor written and practical examinations, and were awarded a flight instructor certificate, you weren't actually ready to instruct. Is that what you meant to state? Am I correct in assuming you know how to direct your student's training without any assistance now (ie. no syllabus, etc.)?

Bob

Real life seems to be a bit different than taking an exam, or being rated.

For example, in about 2 weeks, I will be a commercially rated pilot, and while I consider myself to be pretty decent one (for my experience level, but then again, who doesn't?), does that mean that I will be qualified to go out and fly for an EMS company?

Theoretically, yes, but practically, no. And insurance requirements underline that point.

Experience trumps all, and just as a new commercial pilot I will need more experience before I am sent out into the world, a new instructor is still learning to be a better instructor.

What Aaron seems to be saying is that a 141 school, with a set syllabus, and the accountability that goes along with that, helps the student recieving instruction get the most possible, while allowing the instructor to improve as an instructor.

This really has nothing to do with the initial question of Hillsboro vs. Precision, since as you can see, both offer Part 141 and 61, and really, the proper choice is the one that the student makes, and is happy with.

relyon · May 4, 2008

Do you really think a 200 hour pilot with no instruction given is going to be able to put together as good of a course as the pilots who put together a school's 141 program? ...

Yes or no depending on a number of factors. There are some commercially developed resources that can be and often are used as a starting point when developing a given training program. Those are of the same quality regardless of who makes use of them.

None of this response is intended to sound like a personal attack and if it does in any way please chaulk it up to the inability to experess body languuge on the internet. I'll assume your comments are meant in the same way.

Quite correct. I am merely attempting to voice my opinion over this medium as are you, limited as it is. In no way do I mean to imply that you or any other instructor reading or replying to this forum has given less than adequate instruction.

Bob