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I have had some unproductive conversations with folks in regards to

 

1) exactly what an MEL really is....sounds backwards to me. and ....

 

2) that there IS or ISN'T an MEL for the R22.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone able to clarify?

Edited by tattooed
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2. The R22 has no MEL.

 

Actually, not so. In order for an operator to develop a MEL there has to be a master MEL for that type. MMELs can be found at www.opspecs.com. The links on the homepage don't seem to be working, so here is a direct link to the list of rotorcraft MMELs. http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/Final/rotorcraft/

 

Near the bottom is R-44,R-22 R1.doc, which leads to the MMEL for the 22/44. Any operator can take the MMEL, modify it for the aircraft in question, and submit to the FAA for approval. The reason you don't see them in part 91 operations is because 91.213 makes it unnecessary. It should also be noted that the 300 has no MMEL listed.

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Actually, not so. In order for an operator to develop a MEL there has to be a master MEL for that type. MMELs can be found at www.opspecs.com. The links on the homepage don't seem to be working, so here is a direct link to the list of rotorcraft MMELs. http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/Final/rotorcraft/

 

Near the bottom is R-44,R-22 R1.doc, which leads to the MMEL for the 22/44. Any operator can take the MMEL, modify it for the aircraft in question, and submit to the FAA for approval. The reason you don't see them in part 91 operations is because 91.213 makes it unnecessary. It should also be noted that the 300 has no MMEL listed.

 

Okay, so the question wasn't about MMELs. Thanks for the link though, some good info there.

 

As for the MEL, how many operators out there have realistically gone to the trouble of getting one for an R22?

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I don't know about other operators, and we don't run the 22 or 44, but if you had a 22 on a 135 certificate it could be helpful. Not much on a 22 that can be in-op, but it might come in handy. My understanding is that if you didn't have the MEL and something broke (135) then it is grounded. The PIC isn't given the authority to determine airworthiness for in-op equipment under 135. I could be way off here, but I'm sure somebody will chime in if I am.

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Anyone able to clarify?

 

Basically you have two different ways you can determine if you can fly with something inoperative. When you use the MEL you can only fly if that specific piece of equipment is listed as something you can fly without, along with whatever precautions or actions you have to take. An example would be saying you can fly with a fuel guage inoperative provided you fill main and aux tanks to capacity and fly no longer than 2.3 hours. If you are operating a fleet of complex aircraft the MEL gives you consistency - if the condition isn't listed, you can't fly. Under 91.213 which is what most smaller operations operate under, you basically can fly as long as the inop equipment is not necessary for safety of flight. So if your GPS is broken you can pull the circuit breaker, tie wrap it open and stick an "INOP" label on the face of the GPS and you're good to go. As is PhotoFlyer posted there is an MMEL for the R22/44.

 

MEL = What can be broke

91.213 = What must work

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VERY helpful info!!! Thank you!!!!

 

I was initially told there is no MEL for R22's.....but what I am gathering is that there is an MMEL for R22/R44 (thanks for link), but there are no MELs for each individual tail #. Correct?

 

 

 

 

Another question from my review "When is an MEL required?"

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I have had some unproductive conversations with folks in regards to

 

1) exactly what an MEL really is....sounds backwards to me. and ....

 

2) that there IS or ISN'T an MEL for the R22.

 

Anyone able to clarify?

 

 

Basically everyone else has hit it already, It's a document the tells you what can be broke for you to still fly. To get one, you must have a Master MEL (MMEL) for your type of aircraft. You'll go through and pick and choose what you want to fly with broke, and submit that to the FAA. They will either deny it saying as to why, so you have to go back and redo it, or will issue you a LOA (Letter of authorization) allowing you to use it. The complete package, LOA, MMEL, Preamble, and MEL stay in the aircraft and are now considered a STC (Suplimental Type Certificate) Allowing that specific helicopter to fly with that specific MEL. If something is broken that is not on the MEL, you can not fly! 91.213 does not apply to the heli now. You must use the MEL. It will not transfer if you sell the chopper, and you can always give it back to the FAA and not use it, however you would then have to go back through the proccess to get it back. There is something known as a Fleet MEL so you don't have to apply to the FAA for every single aircraft you want the MEL on, but it will have to include each tail number on the LOA, otherwise whoever is left out is now 91.213, and it's a little harder proccess.

 

MEL's are required for 121 and I believe 135 ops, I'm not so sure on the 135. Also any aircraft requiring a type rating I'm pretty sure is required to have one.

 

I kind of like MEL's sometimes, because it's very clear cut.... Yes you can fly with it broke, or No you can't. 91.213 remember is not just, is it on the 91.205 list? Ok then do I feel safe with it broke. If you actually read the Regs, you are required to make sure it's not required on the Type certificate (It's not just for 12,5k and over aircraft, every aircraft under the sun has one, except experimental.) then Kinds of Operations list in the POH, then 91.205 and Airworthyness Directives. So that is a lot to have to check if you don't have an MEL, so it makes it a little eaiser sometimes.

 

 

Hope that helps.

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VERY helpful info!!! Thank you!!!!

 

I was initially told there is no MEL for R22's.....but what I am gathering is that there is an MMEL for R22/R44 (thanks for link), but there are no MELs for each individual tail #. Correct?

 

 

 

 

Another question from my review "When is an MEL required?"

 

 

 

You almost got it.... .

 

MEL's are issued to individual operators for individual ships. It is possible that there are a few out there. What you were most likely told is that there is no MEL for the R22's that you fly, or that your school operates.

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MEL's are not required for all 135 ops.

 

But some operators choose to use them because, for example:

 

If you are doing tours 135 and a CD player breaks on a helicopter it must be fixed or completely removed if you do not have a MEL. If you do have a MEL, then hopefully it will say that if the CD Player is inop. you may fly as long as it is marked inop and the circuit breaker pulled. I hope this makes sense.

 

This is unlike 91 ops. where as long as the inop. equipment is not list in 91.205, it is up to the pilot and or a mechanic to decide if the ship is airworthy and if he/she would like to fly.

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MEL's are required for 121 and I believe 135 ops, I'm not so sure on the 135. Also any aircraft requiring a type rating I'm pretty sure is required to have one.

 

Actually, MEL's are NOT required by either 121 or 135. It however makes the operation of the aircraft much easier, because you have have inoperative items. You do not see, many SE helicopters with MEL's mostly because the the recent past FAA Washington issued a directive that SE aircraft had to only meet 91.215. An operator gets a copy of the MMEL and develops their procedures, both maintenance and operational, as required. With the exception of interior and convenience items, the operator is not allowed to change the MMEL. They can eliminate items that they do not have. It is not an STC in the true sense of the word as it does not stay with the aircraft, when ownership is transfered. And for 121 and 135 operators it is not an LOA. The document is approved, stamped and reissued to the operator. Part 91 operators, get a LOA that authorizes them to use the MMEL as their MEL.

 

The MEL is normally issued by N number and serial number. However, larger operators generally do Fleet MELs. It makes life for them much easier.

 

As the R22, if there is a MMEL, it is possible that there is a MEL out there somewhere. Don't know why, but it is possible.

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Anyone able to clarify?

But can you clarify for the examiner when he asks you? :huh: ...or make a good go/no-go decision?

 

You might want to have a better answer for the examiner than, "my buddies on Vertical Reference (correctly) told me..." ;)

 

The official reference is:

AC 91-67: Minimum Equipment Requirements for General Aviation Operations Under FAR Part 91. Especially helpful are the pilot Decision Sequence and flow charts (pp. 7-8-9 & 14-15-16-17).

 

Other excellent plain language explanations are:

FAA Safety Team's: Aircraft: Properly Equipped? &

AOPA ASF's: Can we go?: Minimum equipment lists

 

...had to only meet 91.215...

rick1128 - did you mean 91.213?

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