Commercial Flight experience

[Helihead]

Ok the way I read the FAR says you need this

 

 

© For a helicopter rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must log at least 150 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

 

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in helicopters.

 

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least --

 

(i) 35 hours in helicopters; and

 

(ii) 10 hours in cross-country flight in helicopters.

 

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part that includes at least --

 

(i) 10 hours of instrument training in an aircraft;

 

(ii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

 

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(iv) 3 hours in a helicopter in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.

 

(4) 10 hours of solo flight in a helicopter on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part, which includes at least --

 

(i) One cross-country flight with landings at a minimum of three points, with one segment consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MY QUESTOIN IS...

 

Do I need to do the solo and x-country over again... I dont read it like that, I already have that experience what would matter if I had it pre private or not ( I mean the solo and x-country parts of it)This is what they are telling me here, I have to fly another 10 solo and the x-country that I did before doesnt count ) people at this place are telling me I need to do it again, are they milking me out for money or do I really need to fly the 10 solo again and do all the x country post private??

[BlackHwk27]

You do need to do it again. You must meet those requirements as a private pilot. Otherwise, people could just apply directly for a commercial rating before getting a private pilot rating.

 

The idea is you've been flying as a rated pilot, so you're meeting the requirements having been a pilot, and not just a student pilot.

[kodoz]

as a pilot

 

MY QUESTOIN IS...

 

Do I need to do the solo and x-country over again... I dont read it like that, I already have that experience what would matter if I had it pre private or not ( I mean the solo and x-country parts of it)This is what they are telling me here, I have to fly another 10 solo and the x-country that I did before doesnt count ) people at this place are telling me I need to do it again, are they milking me out for money or do I really need to fly the 10 solo again and do all the x country post private??

 

Yeah, you need to do it again. I think the phrase "as a pilot" is key; also, read the definitions (61.1)...those will help you figure it out. Convincing yourself of what you do and don't need is the only way you can be sure you're not getting milked (or to figure out when you have been milked).

--c

[rick1128]

The flight experience you got as a student pilot counts towards the commercial. 'As a pilot' includes student pilot. The reg is written that way because of pilots getting add-on ratings.

[rotormandan]

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part that includes at least --

 

 

(4) 10 hours of solo flight in a helicopter on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part, which includes at least --

 

 

This part applies to flight proficiency requirements for a commercial rating. The solo and cross countries you did as a student pilot were part of the flight proficienty requirements for a private rating as listed in §61.107((3). Even though they are repeats, it requires you do them again. I hope this helps.

Edited June 29, 2008 by rotormandan

[permison]

Call your local FSDO. You'll get 3 different opinions from 2 people here. (just to throw in mine) I don't think you need to redo those flights. But your local FSDO will be able to get the final answer. Make sure you keep the name of the person at the FSDO you speak with.

Good luck

[Oil Pilot]

I'm with rotormandan on this one. You need those flights to satisfy the requirements of 61.127.

 

Why does it matter anyway unless you've already gone all the way through your training and failed to satisfy requirements that you should have known. If you're just starting your commercial training, this should not be an issue. You can't say they're trying to milk you for extra money unless you've already got the 100 PIC and have failed to meet those requirements and they are now saying you need to go do that.

 

If the last part is true, it represents a failure on both the student and the instructor.

 

Sidenote: When I was an instructor, I saw WAY too many people who just expect their instructor to hold their hand all the way through and spoonfeed them exactly what they are supposed to be doing. As a candidate to become a professional pilot, people need to take more interest in what is and is not required of them and insure that their training covers everything. I can somewhat understand people taking a private for recreational reasons, but professional pilots need to know what is required of them.

[Helihead]

I'm with rotormandan on this one. You need those flights to satisfy the requirements of 61.127.

 

Why does it matter anyway unless you've already gone all the way through your training and failed to satisfy requirements that you should have known. If you're just starting your commercial training, this should not be an issue. You can't say they're trying to milk you for extra money unless you've already got the 100 PIC and have failed to meet those requirements and they are now saying you need to go do that.

 

If the last part is true, it represents a failure on both the student and the instructor.

 

Sidenote: When I was an instructor, I saw WAY too many people who just expect their instructor to hold their hand all the way through and spoonfeed them exactly what they are supposed to be doing. As a candidate to become a professional pilot, people need to take more interest in what is and is not required of them and insure that their training covers everything. I can somewhat understand people taking a private for recreational reasons, but professional pilots need to know what is required of them.

 

 

I have a fixed wing rating and hold enough PIC for the commercial, all i need is a 2 hour dual night x-country, and 5 night solo hours, and a solo x-country of 2 hour with at least a 50nm straight line distance and a landing at three points (in a helicopter) the rest I already did.... unless I "have to do it again for the commercial" flight stuff which I think would not make sense, experience is experience. I will ask the FSDO, and you are right you cant count on your instructor to hold your hand, I know from experience.... My instructor was going to let me count all my landings at other airports as x-country... and I was like hmm does this sound familiar needs to be 25 nm or more to count for a rating, and he was like oh yeah, anyway had to fly more because of that, and I did an add on and he thought I needed way more hours than I did and when I finally said something he was like "show me where it says that you only need 20 dual and 10 solo for an add on", and I was like are you kidding me?... bam FARaim 20hr dual 10 solo. I think I have wasted at least 4,000$ so far, and that took away from some of My PIC time in a Helicopter so I think it may have cost me much more than that. This is why I asked this question, some people that have taught me did not know the rules, and it put my confidence level with the rest much lower that what it used to be. I am going to ask the FSDO. if they say I have to do it again, I might find one that reads it different and do my check ride in that area.

[Jeff]

MY QUESTOIN IS...

 

Do I need to do the solo and x-country over again... I dont read it like that, I already have that experience what would matter if I had it pre private or not ( I mean the solo and x-country parts of it)This is what they are telling me here, I have to fly another 10 solo and the x-country that I did before doesnt count ) people at this place are telling me I need to do it again, are they milking me out for money or do I really need to fly the 10 solo again and do all the x country post private??

 

You need to meet the requirements listed. Do NOT read anything into the regulations that is not there. For example, when the regulation says, "... as a pilot," it means as a "pilot" not as a navigator, flight engineer, crew chief, etc. You do, however, need to consider the hierarchy of the paragraphs. For instance, you need 10 hours of XC in helicopters; that 10 hours needs to be as pilot in command. So any dual XC you have prior to being a Private Pilot cannot count because as a non-rated pilot, you cannot log PIC time except when solo.

 

For your dual long XC for Private, if that meets the requirements for Commercial, then it counts for Commercial. That applies to all your dual XCs.

 

The regulation says...

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part that includes at least --

 

(i) 10 hours of instrument training in an aircraft;

 

(ii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

 

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(iv) 3 hours in a helicopter in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.

 

Those hours only add up to 17. Chances are that the other three hours you got while training for your Private Certificate. If not then you'll need another three hours of dual on areas of operation that were not covered. And if I were you, I'd get the 10 hours of instrument time in a helicopter with a CFII so it counts toward your instrument rating. And do it in an IFR-equipped helicopter so you can get the most out of it.

 

Bottom line is this.... Either the instructors at your flight school do not understand the regulation, or they're counting on you to not understand them. Good Luck.

 

~Jeff

[helonorth]

Jeff is correct. You don't have to do anything "over" or repeat training. You just have to

meet the requirements for the rating. End of story.

[Helihead]

Those hours only add up to 17. Chances are that the other three hours you got while training for your Private Certificate. If not then you'll need another three hours of dual on areas of operation that were not covered. And if I were you, I'd get the 10 hours of instrument time in a helicopter with a CFII so it counts toward your instrument rating. And do it in an IFR-equipped helicopter so you can get the most out of it.

 

Bottom line is this.... Either the instructors at your flight school do not understand the regulation, or they're counting on you to not understand them. Good Luck.

 

~Jeff

 

I am gitting my instrument rating... only 7 or so hours left before a Check ride for that. And you said the cross country that was dual during my Private doesn't count. What about My Dual x-country that was done through instrument,

 

I was logging PIC then. So will thoes x-countries count? I was logging PIC since I was the sole manipulator of the controls you mentioned something about it haveing to be solo... where does it say that???

 

Jeff " You do, however, need to consider the hierarchy of the paragraphs. For instance, you need 10 hours of XC in helicopters; that 10 hours needs to be as pilot in command. So any dual XC you have prior to being a Private Pilot cannot count because as a non-rated pilot, you cannot log PIC time except when solo."?

 

Thanks for helping me out I still have a few questions, but I think I have a much better understanding thanks to everyones help, I just do not want to pay for hours I really do not need, and dont want anyone else to waste there money if they are up to par on flying and other knowlege skills.

[jehh]

MY QUESTOIN IS...

 

Do I need to do the solo and x-country over again... I dont read it like that, I already have that experience what would matter if I had it pre private or not ( I mean the solo and x-country parts of it)This is what they are telling me here, I have to fly another 10 solo and the x-country that I did before doesnt count ) people at this place are telling me I need to do it again, are they milking me out for money or do I really need to fly the 10 solo again and do all the x country post private??

 

For the commercial, you need 20 hours of dual instruction and 10 hours of solo flight that is not related to any other ratings.

 

Why? Because those have to be accomplished "on the areas of operation listed in §61.127".

 

All of the other time can be accomplished during other ratings, such as the private and instrument, but you must have 20 hours of dual instruction, post private, VFR, and 10 hours of solo flight, post private, to qualify for the commercial certificate.

 

If someone from a FSDO tells you otherwise, get it in writing...

[Jeff]

I am gitting my instrument rating... only 7 or so hours left before a Check ride for that. And you said the cross country that was dual during my Private doesn't count. What about My Dual x-country that was done through instrument,

 

I was logging PIC then. So will thoes x-countries count? I was logging PIC since I was the sole manipulator of the controls you mentioned something about it haveing to be solo... where does it say that???

 

Jeff " You do, however, need to consider the hierarchy of the paragraphs. For instance, you need 10 hours of XC in helicopters; that 10 hours needs to be as pilot in command. So any dual XC you have prior to being a Private Pilot cannot count because as a non-rated pilot, you cannot log PIC time except when solo."?

 

Thanks for helping me out I still have a few questions, but I think I have a much better understanding thanks to everyones help, I just do not want to pay for hours I really do not need, and dont want anyone else to waste there money if they are up to par on flying and other knowlege skills.

 

Helihead,

 

If you are logging XC time as PIC, whether it is also dual or not, then that counts anywhere PIC XC time is required. There may be a caveat or two in the regulation, however, such as "solo XC" or where the regs specify a XC distance other than the standard 25+ NM. So if the regs require a particular XC to be SOLO, then you must be SOLO in the aircraft.

 

Jeff

[Jeff]

For the commercial, you need 20 hours of dual instruction and 10 hours of solo flight that is not related to any other ratings.

 

Why? Because those have to be accomplished "on the areas of operation listed in §61.127".

 

All of the other time can be accomplished during other ratings, such as the private and instrument, but you must have 20 hours of dual instruction, post private, VFR, and 10 hours of solo flight, post private, to qualify for the commercial certificate.

 

If someone from a FSDO tells you otherwise, get it in writing...

 

I think you're wrong. 61.107 and 61.127 are virtually the same. One difference is 61.127((3)(ix) Special Operations. That is not in 61.107 for Private. And there is no mention in 61.127 of night operations like there is in 61.107. So what are you going to spend time teaching a Commercial applicant about preflight procedures that he/she doesn't already know from Private training? The point is that if someone logged ground and flight instruction in preflight procedures for their Private, then it is logged and meets the requirements of both 61.107 AND 61.127 at the same time. Nothing in 61.127 says or implies that no other logged instruction should count. I'm not saying that you shouldn't teach any of the duplicated topics, just that 20 hours is not required on the whole list in 61.127 if those topics were already logged.

 

~Jeff

 

P.S. The requirements for an Instrument Airplane rating used to be 125 TT and 50 hours XC "after the Private Pilot Certificate" was obtained. So the FAA will word regs that way if it is their intent.

[captkirkyota]

I think you're wrong. 61.107 and 61.127 are virtually the same. One difference is 61.127((3)(ix) Special Operations. That is not in 61.107 for Private. And there is no mention in 61.127 of night operations like there is in 61.107. So what are you going to spend time teaching a Commercial applicant about preflight procedures that he/she doesn't already know from Private training? The point is that if someone logged ground and flight instruction in preflight procedures for their Private, then it is logged and meets the requirements of both 61.107 AND 61.127 at the same time. Nothing in 61.127 says or implies that no other logged instruction should count. I'm not saying that you shouldn't teach any of the duplicated topics, just that 20 hours is not required on the whole list in 61.127 if those topics were already logged.

 

~Jeff

 

P.S. The requirements for an Instrument Airplane rating used to be 125 TT and 50 hours XC "after the Private Pilot Certificate" was obtained. So the FAA will word regs that way if it is their intent.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you Jeff...

 

The way I read it, it breaks down like so....

150 hrs required total for a commercial. ( yes robbies get 200, but for heli in gen it is 150 )

Minus 50 hrs crdit one can get in a sim under airplane

so 100 hrs , minus 35 hrs credit for helo sim one can take,

so we are now down to a NEED of 65 more hrs in a heli

65 - 35 hrs (c)(2)(i), - 10hrs x-country(c)(ii) = 20 hrs left , which is what 61.129 (c)(3) starts of with, and then breaks it down as such, in accordance with sect. 61.127((3)

20 - 10 hrs instr. = 10 hrs left is all you need for your required proficiency and or experience.

10 hrs - 2 hrs day vfr x-country, - 2 hrs night vfr x-country = 6 hrs left

(4) 10 hours of solo, (however you got it in the FLIGHT PROFICIENCY portion of .127 , so if you 5 hrs solo in prvt that counts, because right under this 10 hrs section it the 10 hrs break down as follows...)

a x-country, ( no hrs specified this time ) that is 50 nm w/3 landings and

5 hrs night vfr ( which has to be solo as it is a subpart of the 10 hrs solo )

So back to our 6 hrs left, fly 5 solo night vfr, then if you can squeeze in a 50 nm round robin trip w/3 landings, which is totally possible, you could get all your requirements as laid out. More than likely though you'll either go over a few hours, or have less sim time and could then more easily get done in exactly the 50/35 hrs breakdown for heli's.

Because section 61.129 (c)(3) specifies in accordance with 61.127((3), which is just a proficiency section, which just means you have to have done those things at some point in your flying career, you can then count the PIC stuff from your private training.

As long as you do all this w/in a 60 day period, you can skip the 3 hrs in prep. part.

At least that is how it appears to read to me after reading it like 9 times to really make sure.

Leave it to the Gov. to way over complicate things, trying to cover all bases with all the legalese garble-dee-goop and still make it not completely clear beyond any doubt.

[rotorrodent]

Ok the way I read the FAR says you need this

 

 

© For a helicopter rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must log at least 150 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

 

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in helicopters.

 

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least --

 

(i) 35 hours in helicopters; and

 

(ii) 10 hours in cross-country flight in helicopters.

 

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part that includes at least --

 

(i) 10 hours of instrument training in an aircraft;

 

(ii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

 

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(iv) 3 hours in a helicopter in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.

 

(4) 10 hours of solo flight in a helicopter on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part, which includes at least --

 

(i) One cross-country flight with landings at a minimum of three points, with one segment consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MY QUESTOIN IS...

 

Do I need to do the solo and x-country over again... I dont read it like that, I already have that experience what would matter if I had it pre private or not ( I mean the solo and x-country parts of it)This is what they are telling me here, I have to fly another 10 solo and the x-country that I did before doesnt count ) people at this place are telling me I need to do it again, are they milking me out for money or do I really need to fly the 10 solo again and do all the x country post private??

 

I am in the same situation as you. This is how I understand it to be.

 

The philosophy of the commercial is to "add" experience to your already achieved Private license if that is your case. If you finished your private with the times of some 20hrs dual and 10 solo (xc included etc), you are going to need another 20 hrs total helicopter, and 25 hrs PIC helicopter time. So then, how do you plan to achieve the additional 25 hrs PIC? Go fly some more xc! Now prelicensed pilots (students) flying solo means they are under the direction of their CFI. Post licensed pilots flying solo means just that, solo! In other words, paragraph 4 (i & ii) solo xc and night are to be done without anyone with you so that you learn how to manage your operation without any assistance. Now to the point.

 

If you already did the requirements of paragraph 3 (i,ii,iii) during your private, the requirement is filled. I did the same thing. I flew all of my Private xc requirements based upon commercial specs. (over and above what was required). This is how they allow for commercial add-ons for fixed wing pilots without stopping for the private add-on. All that is really necessary now is to fill the requirement of 35 hrs PIC helicopter and 50 hrs TT Helicopter.

 

As for the night time, unlicensed students are not allowed to fly solo at night. You only get dual training for night pre-private. Once licensed, you now must go do your 5 hrs night and 10 circuits solo. So now that leaves you with 20 hrs to go as PIC. Go fly xc's, take a friend with you, get some experience doing just that. Commercial flying is about flying someone from A to B. Pretend you are a commercial pilot and you are taking your friend to lunch at a nearby airport (50nm).

 

Bottom line, if you have already done the solo xc (50nm) or more, you are done! If you only flew the private xc (25nm). You will have to do it again for 50nm!

 

Hope that helps.

 

Cheers

Rotorrodent

[jehh]

I think you're wrong. 61.107 and 61.127 are virtually the same.

 

Maybe so, maybe not... that is my opinion. I don't issue or revoke certificates, so my opinion doesn't count for much.

 

You or I can read it anyway we want, it is the FAA's opinion that really counts.

 

I do know what our FSDO and DPEs require, and they do require that you have 20 dual, 10 solo, post private VFR training. That is why I advised anyone who hears otherwise to get it in writing, because a phone call won't be a defense to a certificate action.

 

For what it is worth, if anyone DOES get it in writing, please post it here...

[JDHelicopterPilot]

A few things I see here on this thread I would like to clear up a little.

 

Below are the minimum total and PIC flight time reqirements. This is pretty simple.

 

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in helicopters.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least --

(i) 35 hours in helicopters; and

(ii) 10 hours in cross-country flight in helicopters. (this can include XC time from your Private)

 

That means you can use fight time from ANY powered aircraft but at least 50 must be in helicopters. All PIC time can be used reguardless of when you got it, but 35 must be in helicopters. You need 10 hours of XC time in helicopters. Again, it doesn't matter when you got it.

 

When stated that for a commerical rating you need 20 hours of training in the areas of 61.127 the FAA means all of it. Yes, that includes preflights and postflights. It doesn't matter if you got training already durring your private training in these areas. This is in addition to that training.

 

(3) For a rotorcraft category rating with a helicopter class rating:

(i) Preflight preparation;

(ii) Preflight procedures;

(iii) Airport and heliport operations;

(iv) Hovering maneuvers;

(v) Takeoffs, landings, and go-arounds;

(vi) Performance maneuvers;

(vii) Navigation;

(viii) Emergency operations;

(ix) Special operations; and

(x) Postflight procedures.

 

Of those 20 hours of training, you must also do the following:

 

(i) 10 hours of instrument training in an aircraft (note it says aircraft not helicopter).

 

(ii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

 

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(iv) 3 hours in a helicopter in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.

 

Solo: (Yes post Private)

(4) 10 hours of solo flight in a helicopter on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part, which includes at least—

 

(i) One cross-country flight with landings at a minimum of three points, with one segment consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern).

 

There is no way around it. You have to do it.

 

Another side note, student pilots(Pre-Private) CAN solo at night, they just need a simple endorsement from their CFI.

 

JD

Edited June 30, 2008 by JDHelicopterPilot

[rotorrodent]

Maybe so, maybe not... that is my opinion. I don't issue or revoke certificates, so my opinion doesn't count for much.

 

You or I can read it anyway we want, it is the FAA's opinion that really counts.

 

I do know what our FSDO and DPEs require, and they do require that you have 20 dual, 10 solo, post private VFR training. That is why I advised anyone who hears otherwise to get it in writing, because a phone call won't be a defense to a certificate action.

 

For what it is worth, if anyone DOES get it in writing, please post it here...

 

Don't quite agree...for a fixed wing pilot to do a Commercial add-on, are you saying that he needs 20hrs dual (Private) + 20hrs Dual (Commercial)? That isn't what really happens.

 

I believe your scenario is for ab initio pilots who have only flown helicopters Private up to their Commercial?

 

However, on the other hand, Commercial Dual Training is more refined and has more precision than the Private does. Tolerances are tighter so if that takes another 20 hrs dual to perfect then you are correct. What is required vs. what is needed for proficiency are two different animals aren't they?

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent

[captkirkyota]

A few things I see here on this thread I would like to clear up a little.

 

Below are the minimum total and PIC flight time reqirements. This is pretty simple.

 

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in helicopters.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least --

(i) 35 hours in helicopters; and

(ii) 10 hours in cross-country flight in helicopters. (this can include XC time from your Private)

 

That means you can use fight time from ANY powered aircraft but at least 50 must be in helicopters. All PIC time can be used reguardless of when you got it, but 35 must be in helicopters. You need 10 hours of XC time in helicopters. Again, it doesn't matter when you got it.

 

When stated that for a commerical rating you need 20 hours of training in the areas of 61.127 the FAA means all of it. Yes, that includes preflights and postflights. It doesn't matter if you got training already durring your private training in these areas. This is in addition to that training.

 

(3) For a rotorcraft category rating with a helicopter class rating:

(i) Preflight preparation;

(ii) Preflight procedures;

(iii) Airport and heliport operations;

(iv) Hovering maneuvers;

(v) Takeoffs, landings, and go-arounds;

(vi) Performance maneuvers;

(vii) Navigation;

(viii) Emergency operations;

(ix) Special operations; and

(x) Postflight procedures.

 

Of those 20 hours of training, you must also do the following:

 

(i) 10 hours of instrument training in an aircraft (note it says aircraft not helicopter).

 

(ii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

 

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a helicopter in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(iv) 3 hours in a helicopter in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.

 

Solo: (Yes post Private)

(4) 10 hours of solo flight in a helicopter on the areas of operation listed in §61.127((3) of this part, which includes at least—

 

(i) One cross-country flight with landings at a minimum of three points, with one segment consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

 

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern).

 

There is no way around it. You have to do it.

 

Another side note, student pilots(Pre-Private) CAN solo at night, they just need a simple endorsement from their CFI.

 

JD

I think you might not be quite right on one single potion, that is the 10 hrs solo POST private, they way it reads, if you got 5 hrs solo during private, you'll only need to do 5 more hours solo post private for a total of 10 hours solo when you go for your comm. check ride. That's the way it reads to me and more than one of my flight instructors at my school.

It sure would ne nice if an official FAA person would clarify this for sure.

[jehh]

Don't quite agree...for a fixed wing pilot to do a Commercial add-on, are you saying that he needs 20hrs dual (Private) + 20hrs Dual (Commercial)?

 

If he want the private first, then the commercial, he needs more than that. He needs 20 dual, 10 solo (private), then 20 dual, 10 solo (commercial), for a total of 60 hours.

 

If he wants to go directly to the commercial, then he needs 20 dual, 35 solo (35 hours PIC requirement), for a total of 55 hours.

[rotorrodent]

Another side note, student pilots(Pre-Private) CAN solo at night, they just need a simple endorsement from their CFI.

 

JD

 

I agree they can. I did not mean to imply that Students flying at night was against FAR's. They are not. Just need 5 miles visibility and CFi endorsement. However, many schools have policies not allowing students to fly at night for safety reasons or for insurance reasons.

 

I wasn't very clear on that was I?

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent

[jehh]

The way I read it, it breaks down like so....

150 hrs required total for a commercial. ( yes robbies get 200, but for heli in gen it is 150 )

 

Actually, you only need 150 hours of flight time for a commercial in a Robinson R-22 or R-44. You don't even need 200 hours to pass a CFI checkride. You're thinking of the requirements of SFAR 73, which do require 200 hours of helicopter flight time to be able to teach in the R-22 or R-44.

 

At least that is how it appears to read to me after reading it like 9 times to really make sure.

 

As I said, our opinion doesn't count, the FAA's does.

 

Leave it to the Gov. to way over complicate things, trying to cover all bases with all the legalese garble-dee-goop and still make it not completely clear beyond any doubt.

 

In this, we agree completely... :D

[jehh]

A few things I see here on this thread I would like to clear up a little.

 

*snip*

 

There is no way around it. You have to do it.

 

Thanks for posting that and saving me the trouble of typing it up.

[rotorrodent]

If he want the private first, then the commercial, he needs more than that. He needs 20 dual, 10 solo (private), then 20 dual, 10 solo (commercial), for a total of 60 hours.

 

If he wants to go directly to the commercial, then he needs 20 dual, 35 solo (35 hours PIC requirement), for a total of 55 hours.

 

Makes sense.....for a pilot who has a gadzillion hours in aircraft, 20 hrs dual and 35hrs PIC makes sense for Commercial add-on. But for someone with a total time of 0 hours, there will be a great deal of training involved.

 

Thanks for setting me straight on that.

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent