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New GI Bill passed


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I also had this exact same question. I spent a few hours the other day "googling" as much as I could about the new GI Bill but never found anything about flight training. Of interest though, was that depending on certain peoples situations, the "old" GI Bill works out to be better than the "new" GI Bill. I plan on using my GI Bill for helicopter training sometime this year, but if I found out the new GI Bill would pay me a housing allowance while still paying 60% after PPL, I would be inclined to wait for the changes.

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I never did understand the 60% rule... much less not paying for the private. Since you cannot obtain a commercial certificate without a private, why not pay for both?

 

Sigh... Our government in action. I'm not for handouts and welfare, but this is neither. These are benefits earned by men and women who served their country. In my opinion, they should not be spread out over time like this, but rather be a fixed amount of money that can be used at whatever school the vet wants to use them at.

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I think the GOV doesn't want to pay for the private because what they really want to do is help provide payment assistance for those seeking flying as a career path. If they did pay for the private then a lot more would be training but perhaps just to do it and not as a career path.

 

Either that or they are just cheap.

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It is official I just got the e-mail today, stating that Bush signed the New GI Bill in to law this morning. I have exhausted google search and still can not find any new information on what it will do for those of us who want to use it for flight trainging. Please if you have any info on this post a reply!

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The New GI Bill was passed today, but the benefits cannot be used until August 1, 2009. They're saying that it can be used just like the current benefit so flight training is included. Whether or not the payout is gonna change or any private license payment will be included is beyond me. Sounds like they're taking good care of us next year. Might be a good idea to wait it out and hopefully make a little more money for the dream. Check out http://www.gibill.va.gov/ for the latest info.

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I just found out I have 2.5 years left on my reserve G.I. bill. I filled out the application on-line and was wandering if you can use this for any flight school. I used my G.I. bill for paramedic school years ago and it sure helped out. I hope the 60% is for reserves as well as active duty. This almost seems to good to be true.

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Don't know how the updated GI Bill will change things beginning in August 2009, but I am using my GI bill now for flight training (fixed wing). I used it for my Instrument rating and should be finishing up my Commercial Single Engine license soon, to be followed by my Commercial Multi, CFI, CFII and MEI.

 

My GI Bill (Chapter 30) was earned on active duty so I'm not sure what changes for a Reservist (which is what I am now), as in earned GI Bill under the Reserve system (part-time, no active duty). When attending a regular college full-time, you are allowed a certain amount of money per month (let's say $1,200). When you use GI Bill for flight traing (beyond your Private), the VA will reimburse you 60% of your eligible expenses each month. When you have been reimbursed the amount of money that is equivalent to one month of full-time GI Bill payments (in this scenario $1,200), your months of remaining GI Bill funding is reduced by one month.

 

In other words, if you start out being eligible for $1,200 a month for 36 months (of payments, not the 10 year time limitation after leaving active duty) and in the first month of using your benefits you have $2,000 worth of eligible expenses, the VA will reimburse you $1,200 (60% of $2,000), and you will have 35 months of full-time payments left to use for flight training or other education. Hopefully I didn't muddy the waters too much.

 

When I have contacted the VA ref. the amount of remaining benefits on my GI Bill, they gave me the number of months and days of eligibility, which multiplied by the reimbursement rate at the time, would give me the total dollar amount that I could still get reimbursed. That figure is useful when I plan my helicopter add-on ratings in terms of what I will end up paying out of pocket entirely vs. what I will eventually get reimbursed.

 

The new GI Bill that is coming out in 2009 is also adding a hefty monthly stipend for living expenses for full-time students. I'm assuming that will be paid directly to the student, so if you are enrolled in an accredited aviation program that qualified you for the stipend, you could apply that money to flight training as well. I'm looking forward to finding out the exact details of the new program.

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The Stars and Stripes had an article in the paper today and it stated that the new GI Bill can NOT be used on vocational schools, only for an Associates degree and up. I don't know how this relates to flight training????

 

Another interesting thing about the New GI Bill is that the maximum payout for tuition is capped at whatever the most expensive state school happens to be. So if the new bill does happen to be good for flight training than the compensation is different for each state. If one lives in a state that has a low state tuition, than they would get less than somebody with a higher state tuition. It would be worth moving halfway across the country to go to flight school if the compensation/payent covered more of the training costs in another state.

 

The big question is, Does the new GI Bill cover flight trainng?

 

Thoughts?

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The Stars and Stripes had an article in the paper today. The big question is, Does the new GI Bill cover flight trainng?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

This was taken from the VA website's, Frequently Asked Questions....I'll believe the VA site over the stars and stripes..

 

Former USAF, mechanic

 

VA.gov

 

 

Information about the Post-9/11 GI Bill

 

What does the Post-9/11 GI Bill cover?

 

Approved training under The Post-9/11 GI Bill includes graduate and undergraduate degrees, and vocational/technical training. All training programs must be offered by an institution of higher learning and approved for purposes of chapter 30. Additionally, tutorial assistance, and licensing and certification test reimbursement are approved under the Post- 9/11 GI Bill.

 

If you are also eligible for chapter 30, 1606 or 1607, you may be eligible to pursue training for on-the-job training, apprenticeship, correspondence, flight and preparatory courses under the Post-9/11 GI Bill.

 

Back to Frequently Asked Questions

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Thanks for that link

 

 

 

 

 

This was taken from the VA website's, Frequently Asked Questions....I'll believe the VA site over the stars and stripes..

 

Former USAF, mechanic

 

VA.gov

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I just found out I have 2.5 years left on my reserve G.I. bill. I filled out the application on-line and was wandering if you can use this for any flight school. I used my G.I. bill for paramedic school years ago and it sure helped out. I hope the 60% is for reserves as well as active duty. This almost seems to good to be true.

 

 

Hey Rat!

 

Where did you go to find out how much GI bill you had left? I curious myself!

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Hey Rat!

 

Where did you go to find out how much GI bill you had left? I curious myself!

Put in the paper work for eligibility with the VA - takes about a month and they'll tell you how much benefit you have left. You'll need to do it before you use it anyways.

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So I was actually googling the topic as well and came across this forum. I have emailed the VA and asked them this question we all want to know as well and still have not gotten a response. I have done about as much research as I possibly can on this topic but I guess we're just going to have to wait it out. I have read every clip of every article posted about flight training and the new GI bill and haven't found specifics. I do want to ask Parafiddle a question, how did the VA reimburse you for your instrument rating? I just finished up my private pilot course and am thinking about starting my instrument rating soon (depending on the outcome of the new gi bill) and was wondering how you paid for it. Did you pay for the whole course out of pocket and then receive reimbursement after paying for it? Did the VA only give you the approx. $1,200/mo or did they give you 60% of what your costs were for that month? This is a very frustrating subject because I am suppose to seperate in November and was going to go straight to DCA with my private & instrument rating but if this new G.I. bill will cover more of the training expenses, it would probably favor me to wait until Aug. 1st 2009 to continue training. Thanks for the info!!!!

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Mechanic,

 

Thanks for the info, lots of useful reading in there which I can use towards the current G.I. bill and reimbursment of the intstrument rating. Is the post 9/11 going to provide the same benefits for flight training or is it going to change? Thats what I'm really looking for, I don't mind coming out of pocket another couple thousand for the instrument rating, but if the new G.I. bill will cover more of the training costs, then I will wait until Aug 1st 09 to continue on with the commercial, CFI, MEI, etc. ( I know I'm asking the same question the past 10 posts have asked)

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

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Chris,

I only know what is posted on the freq asked questions section of the va site. They don't offer much info at the current time. Keep an eye on the military.com site. They prob will have an article on the new bill changes soon.

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Here you guys go, I will share the wealth with you. I contacted the VA and this is the exact response I got from them:

 

 

"Dear Mr. Elliot,

 

At this time, we have no reason to believe the pay would change because of the new benefit. We are still receiving information about all the specifics for the benefit. Any information not included within the pamphlet is unknown to us. Please keep checking back on our web site for additional information.

 

http://www.gibill.va.gov/S22/S22%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

 

Thank you for contacting the VA.

GS/2245

Education Customer Service"

 

This came straight from the VA so, I guess they are still unsure on the matter as well. As for myself, a little irritated but will start my instrument training ASAP and try to get it knocked out within the last 4 months I have on active duty.

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I am still active duty, 22 years. I have been following the new GI Bill very closely because I didn't sign up (dumb, I know) for the Montgomery GI Bill.

 

I have spoken to the VA also. Flight training is covered in the new Bill. From what I have read, been told by the VA and the career coulselors at my command; is that high cost training such as flight and some other vocations will be paid 100% just like college courses. The payment will be directly too the school, not to the student. Obviously, the max amount can be reached much faster.

 

One question that no one knows the answer to is weather or not housing will be paid for non-traditional schools, such as flight schools.

 

The Bill is law, but there are a lot of loose ends yet to be addressed. In in the long run it is goning to be a tremenous benefit!

 

Good luck to the rest of you Vets out there, God Bless America!

 

Brad

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I never did understand the 60% rule... much less not paying for the private. Since you cannot obtain a commercial certificate without a private, why not pay for both?

 

The not paying for private rating falls under the personnel enrichment courses, like painting with water colors or pottery etc... 60% is just their way of cheating us on a payout in my opinion. If memory serves, correspondence courses only pays 55% go figure. I had to pay $1200 bucks to get that benefit, post 84' vet. The earlier vets had to pay nothing from my understanding.

 

Later

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I am still active duty, 22 years. I have been following the new GI Bill very closely because I didn't sign up (dumb, I know) for the Montgomery GI Bill.

 

I have spoken to the VA also. Flight training is covered in the new Bill. From what I have read, been told by the VA and the career coulselors at my command; is that high cost training such as flight and some other vocations will be paid 100% just like college courses. The payment will be directly too the school, not to the student. Obviously, the max amount can be reached much faster.

 

One question that no one knows the answer to is weather or not housing will be paid for non-traditional schools, such as flight schools.

 

The Bill is law, but there are a lot of loose ends yet to be addressed. In in the long run it is goning to be a tremenous benefit!

 

Good luck to the rest of you Vets out there, God Bless America!

 

Brad

 

Brad,

 

That is a little disturbing hearing that the VA told you 100% of training costs will be covered and they told me that the amount should not change. I am also wondering whether or not the E-5 BAH based on location for housing will be included for flight training. From what I've read I'm sure that it will but who knows. If they do pay for 100% of training costs I wonder if they will implement the "max state tuition" rule. If they only pay the highest annual state tuition rates, that would be exausted in a month (depending on location) for flight training. Guess we'll wait in see, in the meantime I enrolled in the instrument course and wont waste my time waiting for the VA to decide what they're going to pay.

 

Chris

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I suspect the VA doesn't yet know, they have a year to get it worked out after all...

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I would suspect that the VA might be getting Vocational Flight Training and College Level Flight Training confused? I bet the percentages stay the same and only the max per month is increased…. And maybe a housing stipend added.

 

jmo

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I don't know if anyone here is interested but here is a subsection of Chapter 33 (The New GI Bill) that was signed into law on June 30th. The VA still needs to have their lawyers interpret it as they see fit, however it seems kind of cut and dry to me, I will explain some of the sections indicated afterwards. So here it is:

 

`( i ) Flight Training- ( 1 ) Educational assistance is payable under this chapter for a program of education consisting of flight training as follows:

 

`( A ) Courses of flight training approved under section 3860A( b ) of this title.

 

`( B ) Flight training meeting the requirements of section 3034( d ) of this title.

 

`( 2 ) Paragraphs ( 2 ) and ( 4 ) of section 3032( e ) of this title shall apply with respect to the availability of educational assistance under this chapter for pursuit of flight training covered by paragraph ( 1 ).

 

`( 3 ) The educational assistance payable under this chapter to an individual for pursuit of a program of education consisting of flight training covered by paragraph ( 1 ) is the amounts as follows:

 

`( A ) The amount equal to the lesser of--

 

`( i ) the established charge which similarly circumstances nonveterans enrolled in the program would be required to pay; or

 

`( ii ) the maximum amount that would be payable to the individual for the program of education under paragraph ( 1 )( A ) of subsection ( c ), or under the provisions of paragraphs ( 2 ) through ( 7 ) of subsection ( c ) applicable to the individual, for the program of education if the individual were entitled to amounts for the program of education under subsection ( c ) rather than this subsection.

 

`( B ) A housing stipend in an amount equal to the amount of the appropriately reduced amount of monthly stipend for housing otherwise payable to the individual under subsection ( c ).

 

`( C ) A monthly stipend in an amount equal to the monthly equivalent of the appropriately reduced amount of the yearly stipend for books, supplies, equipment, and other educational costs otherwise payable to the individual under subsection ( c ).

 

`( 4 ) The nature and amount of the tuition, fees, and other expenses constituting the established charge for a program of flight training under this subsection shall be determined in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Secretary.

 

`( 5 ) Payment of the amounts payable under paragraph ( 3 ) for pursuit of a program of flight training shall be made on a monthly basis.

 

`( 6 ) For each month for which amounts are paid an individual under this subsection, the entitlement of the individual to educational assistance under this chapter shall be charged at the rate of one month for each such month.

 

 

So here's a break down of the unclear portions of this excerpt:

 

- Section 3860A( b ) and 3034( d ) are sections under Chapter 30 (The old GI Bill) that state the conditions that flight training must meet to qualify for benefits and the flight schools that are approved (FAR 141 Schools)

 

- Section ( i )( 2 )( A )( ii ) is the big one. Maybe someone else can interpret this better, but from my understanding ( 1 )( A ) says that you are allowed the "maximum in-state tuition", just depends on what state you're in. I did some research and it appears that Montana has the highest tuition cap around $13K a year. However, it also says this, "...if the individual were entitled to amounts for the program of education under subsection © rather than this subsection." This leads me to believe that if you were doing an Aviation Degree, that is when you would get the MAX in-state tuition, otherwise you would be entitled to the amount that "equally circumstanced non-veterans would pay". If it were interpreted this way they would probably say that you're inelligible for the cost of the private license but would pay for the rest, roughly $50K, which would be GREAT!!

 

- It appears that you would get your housing stipend and yearly book allowance, the question is, "what is considered full time to the VA, for flight school?"

 

The rest is kind of up for interpretation. I'm not a professional when it comes to law so maybe someone out there with experience in law can shed some light on this. I am considering getting out of the Air Force to pursue my dream of being a helicopter pilot, but I want to make certain my wife and I are financially stable when we do it. I have 2 and a half years left on my tour here in Germany and I am considering going to school at Upper Limit Aviation in Salt Lake City, UT, Hillsboro Aviation in Hillsboro, OR, or Northern Skies Aviation in Laurel, MT. All of this is hinging on the availability of my benefits from the VA so you can see why this information is important to me and many others like me. I really don't want to run myself $40,000 into debt; however, if it means that I get to fly for the rest of my life, I will.

 

If anyone would like to read the rest of Chapter 33 (Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2007 or S.22) you can find it on http://thomas.loc.gov. You can also find information on Chapter 30 (The Old GI Bill) there or on http://www.gibill.va.gov, additionally you can find a list of approved flight schools by state and by program through the GI bill homepage.

 

I hope that this information helps all of you and you don't see the legal aspect of this post as a waste of space. It effects all of of us in some way or another. And it gives us the knowledge to combat the VA if they try to short us on our benefits just because we elect to pursue our education and career path through unconventional means such as flight training and correspondence courses. The way I see it, all of us that are eligible for VA benefits have earned them in some way, shape or form. These bills have been signed into law for a reason and it's up to us to be educated enough to fight, for not only our own benefits but the benefits of others to come. Don't get me wrong, this new GI Bill is great, but the VA has a history of twisting things in their favor and being stubborn when it comes to benefits. This is mostly because the purpose of the GI Bill is to recruit, not to provide; they make it look really good on paper, then when it comes time pay up they bring out the "hidden law" that alleviates their responsibility to a certain degree.

 

Well it's time for me to get off my high horse, anyway take this information for what it's worth, I think we're going to need it when August 1st, 2009 rolls around and the VA comes up with it's own law. If any of you hear anything more, lets keep this post going I have been all over the internet trying to find information on this stuff for the past 2 weeks, i think it will be nice for other aspiring pilots to be able to find all of their information in one centralized location.

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`( A ) The amount equal to the lesser of--

 

`( i ) the established charge which similarly circumstances nonveterans enrolled in the program would be required to pay; or

 

`( ii ) the maximum amount that would be payable to the individual for the program of education under paragraph ( 1 )( A ) of subsection ( c ), or under the provisions of paragraphs ( 2 ) through ( 7 ) of subsection ( c ) applicable to the individual, for the program of education if the individual were entitled to amounts for the program of education under subsection ( c ) rather than this subsection.

 

I think the key words there are "The amount equal to the lesser of"

 

So if your flight traing is cheaper than the maximum rate for the state then that's all you get because that's the established charge for nonvets. And if your flight training is more expensive than the maximum rate for the state, you'll get the max for the state.

 

Which depending on where you live may be a pretty good deal.

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