Something to watch out for!

Darren Hughes · August 17, 2009

So I was finishing up a 3 flight Instrument Proficiency Check yesterday for a guy who has about 700 hours instructing in a Schweizer and only 15 in a R22. It's been a while since he had been flying as he is working outside the industry for the past 6 years, but he's thinking of getting back in.

His instrument flying sucked on the first flight, but yours would too after a 6 year break. We got him back to Instrument check ride standard after only 3 flights which was impressive, and I was prepared to sign off the IPC. At the end of the last flight he mentioned that he wanted to do a few VFR maneuvers. Generally I try to stay away from this kind of thing after an instrument flight, but on this one I obliged.

As we were going around the pattern for the second time, he mentioned that he'd like to do an auto or 2. So we extended the crosswind and downwind while I gave him a briefing on the maneuver. Everything from entry, to being established, to the flare, and finally the power recovery. As we came around on final he set himself up to enter, and I covered the controls. He rolled off the throttle, added right pedal and gentle aft cyclic, all very smooth I might add. The only problem.....He forgot to LOWER the collective!. Or so I thought. I waited for him to lower collective. About a half a second went by and the RPM was passing through 97%, low rotor RPM horn came on and collective was no lower, 90%...collective was no lower. It was at this point that I lowered the collective myself and applied aft cyclic while rolling on the throttle. The lowest point the RPM reached during the maneuver was about 85% or less before they started to come back up. On a warm day that's not were you want to be. Although I've heard horror stories from my friends about the RPM being quite a bit lower, but it still scared the BAJESUS outta me!!

So what was the problem? Why did this guy do what he did? Where did I go wrong with this whole thing? I've come up with my own conclusion, but feel free to add to it, rip me a new one if you think it's needed!

First off, my once hard and fast rule of not practicing VFR maneuvers after 1.3 hours under the hood should have been upheld. People just aren't in the right frame of mind to do autos and the likes after instrument flying. We should have landed, shut down for 30 minutes, and then went up to do them.

Second, during that break on the ground, we would have got a much better briefing done than in the cockpit. The guy said to me afterwards, that in the Schweizer if you enter an auto like in a robbie, by lowering collective before rolling off the throttle, or even lowering and rolling off simultaneously, you risk an overspeed. His plan was to roll off the throttle, wait a second and then lower collective. But even after that second had passed and we were saying "bye bye" to 90% he still wasn't lowering. Maybe he was startled by the horn coming on so soon compared to the Schweizer. With a break on the ground with a full briefing we would have covered the entry more than once and he would have been in a better frame of mind as to what to do in the R22.

It would also have been a good idea for me to demo an auto for him, but I didn't think this was needed as he had around the same amount of flight time as myself.

Lastly, one of the larger errors I made was not to address the differences between the 2 aircraft. I would like to think that I would have covered that to some degree had we briefed on the ground prior to the maneuver.

There was nobody more at fault during this incident than me, the instructor who failed to properly brief the maneuver. I figure I'll write about this here as this business is a learn as you go kinda business, so better others learn the easy way instead of the hard.

kodoz · August 17, 2009

Good post, lots of valid points. I'll let others with more experience talk about the difference in the 2 aircraft. They auto differently, but the first step is always smoothly lowering the collective. In the 269/300s that I've flown, you adjust the throttle so there is a needle split, but in the Robbie we're usually rolling up against the detent (altho I don't think that's necessary). For me, the biggest difference that I have had trouble adjusting to is the nose-down sight picture in the 269/300.

And below 90%...scares the hell out of me just thinking about that.

Helopilt · August 17, 2009

I too, have the same rule #1 - no VFR mnvrs after an instrument flight. I've had similar experiences like yours and adopted this rule as well.

Okay, now when practicing autos in either of these aircraft, collective comes down then throttle goes off. Giving yourself an engine failure is a different mnvr. I also think it is much easier to overspeed the Robbie than the 300, so quite possibly the student was just making up an excuse for his/her actions? Sometimes there is no explanation and they make something up.....

I've had several students that would cut the throttle before dropping the collective just because....well I really don't know why, nor did they. Same thing with punching left pedal instead of right, it happens. But when this does happen drop the collective immediately. Never hesitate.

I will also add, when giving engine failures, the procedure should be for the instructor - chop it, and drop it. Never wait for the student to get the collective down. If they push it down faster than you, you will know and they are entering properly.

And to kodoz - I agree the throttle against detent in the 22 probably not necessary depending where it is idling. I usually check and make sure ERPM is at least @70% once auto is established and adjust throttle accordingly.

choppedair · August 17, 2009

I don't think the problem is much due to VFR work after IFR work. I have frequently broken up IFR flights by doing a couple of autos after an approach, or a simulated engine failure under the hood, or just after removing the hood on approach or transition to the missed approach.

I think the problem is that the student isn't current (especially in an R22), and it was a spur of the moment idea it sounds like. It would have been a good idea for you to take the controls, let him relax and adjust his eyes, and demonstrate an auto to get his head back in the game first. Then make sure he is clear on the procedure and give him a go at it.

helicopterdan · August 18, 2009

You know, I've noticed that a lot of guys when flying with an instructor kind of let their gaurd down. They think that because they are with an instructor that if something goes wrong, the instructor will just take over and make everything ok again.

Not good.

rotorrodent · August 18, 2009

As we were going around the pattern for the second time, he mentioned that he'd like to do an auto or 2. So we extended the crosswind and downwind while I gave him a briefing on the maneuver. Everything from entry, to being established, to the flare, and finally the power recovery. As we came around on final he set himself up to enter, and I covered the controls. He rolled off the throttle, added right pedal and gentle aft cyclic, all very smooth I might add. The only problem.....He forgot to LOWER the collective!. Or so I thought. I waited for him to lower collective. About a half a second went by and the RPM was passing through 97%, low rotor RPM horn came on and collective was no lower, 90%...collective was no lower. It was at this point that I lowered the collective myself and applied aft cyclic while rolling on the throttle. The lowest point the RPM reached during the maneuver was about 85% or less before they started to come back up. On a warm day that's not were you want to be. Although I've heard horror stories from my friends about the RPM being quite a bit lower, but it still scared the BAJESUS outta me!!

Nothing wrong doing VFR manuevers after an IPC. However, it should have been briefed up in preflight operations. Flying and briefing kind of oppose one another and make for a rush job out of everything. As for the auto itself? Maybe the guy was thinking "engine failure" first by rolling off, then brain-f**rted the rest.

Perhaps in preflight briefing, you could have asked that when we finish the required IPC maneuvers, is there anything else you would like to cover. Then you could brief in detail to refresh his memory of the auto procedure.

In the aviation community both fixed wing and rotary, a vast majority of pilot contributed accidents are a result of "improper procedure". Spell it out in briefing, step 1,2,3,4 down right aft roll off (split needles) etc...

The instructor oft times becomes the student not by choice but by unexpected student actions. Glad to hear that you quickly solved the delemma and recovered to tell about it!

Cheers

Rotorrodent

Darren Hughes · August 19, 2009

Cheers for all the replies so far. I think we can all agree that briefing on the ground before the maneuvers is the best & safest way to operate.

I'm not sure exactly where I picked up my "No VFR maneuvers just after hood time" rule. I know I've heard it said from multiple sources since before I started instructing. I see some of you agree with it and some of you don't. The reason it makes sense to me is that instrument flying and visual flying are very different, with respect to what you concentrate on. When I'm flying on instruments I'm totally engrossed in the panel. As long as I keep all those gauges right by constantly checking & cross checking I'll not get CFIT or do something stupid that would get me killed or worse, have ATC yell at me!!! The only outside variable I'm really paying attention to is wind direction. When flying visual, even as an instructor with a guy under the hood beside me, I'm "outside the aircraft" so to speak, looking for traffic, and watching for forced landing sites and the angles I'd be taking into them should the worst happen. My mind is more capable of the hand eye coordination required for VFR maneuvers.

I do have my guys practice auto's while under the hood, with a power recovery at altitude. I'm not saying that I or anyone else wouldn't be able to handle a VFR emergency if it arose while under the hood. But if it is just a training flight, why take on with the added risk when it's not needed on an instrument flight.

C of G · August 19, 2009

I'm not saying that I or anyone else wouldn't be able to handle a VFR emergency if it arose while under the hood.

What's a VFR emergency? I'm kidding of course, because everyone knows emergencies don't care about visibility. The only one I know that is limited to VFR is IIMC.

choppedair · August 20, 2009

In my opinion, you need to be comfortable with the transition from IFR to VFR, whatever the maneuvers.

I would sometimes cut the throttle when they are under the hood, and rip their hood off 1000 agl and see where they go and how they handle the transition. Some people just lose it and end up at 35 knots and have no idea where they are going to land.

Or what about being able to break out of the clouds and make your way to a hospital, etc. All good training if you ask me. It's a good way to break up the monotony, vector them out to an off airport or something and work on VFR stuff occasionally. Not all IFR flying is going to be IMC 100% of the time all the way down to minimums.

TscottN · August 20, 2009

I have just over 1000 hours instructing in the 300c now.. and I can tell you that you never roll off the throttle first. Drop the collective slowly and steadly then adjust the throttle for about 2000 Erpms. If you roll the throttle off first or anytime during the manuver into the detent you are just asking for trouble. 2k erpms is fine to similate the manuver which is all yo are doing. There should never ever be a need to chop the throttle off at anytime.