Leaving a helicopter with engine and rotor engaged

[H-43]

Not to add fuel to the fire but in some ways I agree with Arcus.  It is quite easy to be on the outside looking in at a situation and pronounce it quite dangerous.  Unless you have had a job that required leaving the helicopter running with rotors turning I would say there is no reason to do it.  But in many cases when done safely it is useful.  It is all in what you are used to.

[delorean]

In EMS it's normal to get out with the blades turning.  I don't do it that often, but on night scenes, I'll hop out with my portable spotlight to check for wires.

 

A lot of other pilots will assist the crew with the loading of the patient.  We're instructed not to by corporate, but some still do (because if we jam a finger or hurt our back, who's going to fly the patient out??)  I'll open the doors for them and turn O2, but I don't touch the stretcher--also because there's patient goo on it.

 

BO and BK guys have an arm that comes folds down from the door frame and clips on the top of the cyclic plus a strap for the collective.  That helicopter isn't going anywhere.

 

I would never do it in the R22s or R44Astros.  With the bungee cord setup in the control system, the cyclic gets pulled off center easily.  Then, that big weight on the center bar pulls it over the rest of the way.

 

Remember, frictions have to be set that you can still overpower them in an emergency.  So you can never have them truly "locked" down unless you have another means.

 

Hope this helps!

 

-Jonathan

[skullcap]

In Canada, if my mind remembers accurately, you may get out of the aircraft with rotors turning as long as you don't leave the aircraft "unattended" which most view as being under the rotor disc.  Hot fuelling by yourself is not allowed unless someone competent is at the controls.  

 

If hotfuelling is required, then I try to hotfuel only every other refuelling unless a bunch of insensitive mediums are hoveing about waiting to get fuelled up. This has been a very wise thing to do as it allows time to check fluid levels and cargo hook manual release cable on Astar while slinging, something any wise Astar driver will do religiously.

 

Have no problem with getting out if the situation warrants it, yes even if just for practical reason, such as to piss.  Better to fly with empy bladder and be comfortable than try to land offlevel with knees together.  Can think of many reasons to stay in aircraft, such as wind and pad conditions.  Not a real big deal if common sense dictates.  Getting out of a running 205 on log pad while at 100 % is not wise and have seen the results.

 

Having no night time in 25 years the thought of checking around with my spotlight "after" landing gives me a queazy feeling though,,,,sorry.

 

sc

[MD900 Explorer]

I have just come back from NZ, and noticed that it seemed to be a very common thing over there.  God love them.   I saw a JR and an astar, doing it.  The astar seemed more happy with it that the ageing 2B JR.

 

Regards

 

MD  ::bowdown::

[Tex]

I heard a guy read somewhere that someone brother's, girlfriend's, sister's Uncle saw a DVD of a video where the pilot stepped from from a helicopter which was in Auto Hover near a pinnacle, and gave it a big shove, it moved out a couple of feet before obediently returning to its original position for him to get back in again.

 

::potty::

[skullcap]

Well I heard this guy somewhere actually believed that story and is seriously thinking about trying it. But, this guy was going to get it on 8mm tape to have it on record.  Check out CNN tomorrow.

 

sc

[FOG]

This pratice was actually taught when I went through WOFT. Flight idle, frictioned down take care of bussiness.

[Hawkdriver]

Fancy seeing another Socnetter here Lancer33!

 

The combat readiness center would have a heart attack if they were teaching to leave to the aircraft with blades turning. Times sure have changed there for sure!

[FOG]

Yeah, I'm sure the training has changed substantially. After we soloed at Wolters we would fly around the local AO and practice landings at designated "LZ's". Leave it idle and grab a smoke.

 

Good to see you here.

[Guest]

Read Below:

 

An old instructor of mine.....still flying S-76's too.  

 

NTSB Identification: LAX01FA252.

The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Public Inquiries

14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation

Accident occurred Saturday, July 21, 2001 in Los Angeles, CA

Probable Cause Approval Date: 10/24/2002

Aircraft: Sikorsky S-76A, registration: N769BB

Injuries: 1 Minor.

The pilot got out of the helicopter with the engines running and the rotors turning to check on the security of a cabin door, and the unmanned helicopter began moving on the helipad and rolled over. The pilot had completed a nightime, helicopter, air taxi flight, and was preparing to depart the elevated helipad to reposition the helicopter to the operator's base. After deplaning his passengers the pilot returned to the cockpit and was preparing to depart when he noticed a door unsecured indication on the instrument panel for the left cabin door. The passengers had deplaned through the right-hand door and the left door annunciation had not been on during the inbound flight. He thought one of the passengers might have released the left door latch inadvertently while preparing to deplane. He idled the engines and exited the cockpit to check the door. He reclosed the door and returned to the cockpit; however, the door open annunciation came on again. He recalled leaving the cockpit "2 or 3 times" to deal with the door and said he was "frustrated with it." He did not recall retarding the engine power control levers to ground idle before leaving the cockpit the final time. While out of the cockpit, the wheel-equipped helicopter started to move as the pilot was returning to the cockpit. He recalled it was moving toward the edge of the helipad. He returned to the cockpit; however, before he could regain control there was a confusing sequence of events and the next thing he knew the helicopter was on its side. The pilot reported there were no mechanical discrepancies with the helicopter up to the time of the event. He remarked that it was very light [weight] with no one else on board. On the deck of the helipad there was a tire skid pattern consistent with a dynamic rollover event. The engine power control levers were found in the "fly" position.

 

 

 

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

 

The failure of the pilot to reduce the engine power control levers to ground idle prior to leaving the helicopter, resulting in the unmanned helicopter moving on the helipad and performing a dynamic rollover.

[VRef]

Done many times a day in the longline production enviroment.

[cowken]

On 10/20/2004 at 3:21 AM, flingwing206 said:

I voted in the "not likely" catagory because under most circumstances, anytime the rotors are turning fast enough to cause harm, a pilot should be at the controls - even with real control locks, stuff happens - fuel control units fail, hydraulics get a mind of their own, whatever.

 

However, a time may come - imagine you are alone at the controls and here comes running a bunch of unsupervised kids - do you start a shutdown and hope that in the two to five minutes it takes for the rotors to stop nobody finds the tail rotor, or do you take it to ground idle, lock the controls, and make the scene safe?

You're asking a rhetorical question, surely.

[Inthegreen]

Well done Cowken, resurrecting an 18 year old thread!  I might as well respond, since I'm here.

There are many cases where I and others have done this and other cases when you would not.

Conditions:

1. aircraft on stable ground

2. aircraft at ground idle with controls locked or frictioned down

3. no hazard to people or property

Some cases where you might do it:

• Landing to attach a long line - you're generally out in the bush and it's a very quick operation
• Landing in a remote or harsh location - Shutting down the engine here you risk not being able to start it again for battery, fuel manifold, ignitor, start circuit issues.  In extreme hot or cold, this could cost you your life. (Some old jet rangers have a hole drilled in the solenoid in the battery compartment with a piece of electrical tape over it for just this problem.  Someone would hold down the contractor while you nervously started the engine with a weak battery)
• Remote refueling - doing a job away from base and you get stuck, job also not completed, because the aircraft won't start again.
• Probably many more similar situations

 

When don't you do it:

• With any non-participating people around
• Just for your convenience or being lazy

Edited August 6, 2022 by Inthegreen

[Wally]

HEMS remote lz on a remote highway with limited people on scene. Say, in the Blue Ridge or a national forest when an alternate pickup may be too distant. Have a starter failure, battery, whatever- you have just blocked impeded a significant artery.

Mountain highway 2-lane scene, landed on a pullover, starter/gen shaft failed and mechanic hours away. Fortunately, there was room for one safe lane with somebody controlling traffic at each end.

Or refueling on a one ship pad.