rotor stall

[rotorchic]

With all the discussion about rotor stall in a r22, do I have to worry about it with a governor. A friend of mine told me dynamic rollovers happen alot in r22's. Here husband has a Bell 47, he says r 22's are death traps. Oh she also said when you roll over, you burn to death in 3 seconds. I like taking lessons but I don't like hearing negative stuff like this. Is she just naive about these helicopters? Or what!

[Brent]

With all the discussion about rotor stall in a r22, do I have to worry about it with a governor. A friend of mine told me dynamic rollovers happen alot in r22's. Here husband has a Bell 47, he says r 22's are death traps. Oh she also said when you roll over, you burn to death in 3 seconds. I like taking lessons but I don't like hearing negative stuff like this. Is she just naive about these helicopters? Or what!

 

 

Maybe her husband is only capable of flying a Bell 47 and dont listen to her about any thing to do with helicopters as she does not seem to know much about them and if they were death traps Robinson(including R44) would not be the biggest selling helicopters in the world. Any machine is a death trap if not operated correctly. Keep flying and enjoy it.

[Goldy]

With all the discussion about rotor stall in a r22, do I have to worry about it with a governor. A friend of mine told me dynamic rollovers happen alot in r22's. Here husband has a Bell 47, he says r 22's are death traps. Oh she also said when you roll over, you burn to death in 3 seconds. I like taking lessons but I don't like hearing negative stuff like this. Is she just naive about these helicopters? Or what!

 

 

Rotorchic- The R22 has a fairly high number of accidents for several reasons...most involve the high level of pilot training...you would expect the ship that does the most pilot training would probably have the highest incidence of accidents, right ?

 

Now to your original question. Do a search on www.ntsb.gov and see what kind of accidents helo's get into..I dont think the R22 has any higher incidence of roll overs per hour of training than other types of birds. As far as the rotor stall...the governor does a really great job of keeping up your rotor RPM, you should always be double checking it during your visual scans...where the rotor could stall is during an auto...if you do all the wrong things, instead of the right ones.

 

I love the Bell 47, it has a much wider skid so maybe not as prone to roll overs, it has a much larger rotor system, so auto's are really easy. It has hydraulic controls, it too has its issues though...it has no warning when hydraulics are going out, until you feel it and the aircraft becomes almost impossible to control...most have wood blades...that has never thrilled me. Many of the controls are pulleys and cables instead of bellcranks...take a look at the undercarriage of one and you will see all the exposed cables. That doesnt make it a terrible unsafe bird...just a different one.

 

If I were you, I would be reading up. As far as I am concerned, the greatest danger in a R22 is carb ice, if you are not familiar with the icing problems, temp sensor location issues, etc. then read up on those. I have only experienced it once, and was lucky to catch the decreased power sensation in time. But now, I watch that instrument like a hawk, and will pull carb heat religiously. When I started flying R22's back in 1986, I didnt even know where the carb heat was !

 

Every bird has its strengths and weaknesses. As a pilot it is YOUR responsibility to learn each of those weaknesses/ differences and how to deal with them. If you have not checked out Robinsons website, take a look at it, and read each safety notice carefully. If you havent read the other thread about roll overs, go here :http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/helicopterforum/index.php?showtopic=4643

 

Meanwhile, keep flying safe.

 

Good luck on your training.....Goldy

[PA Pilot]

With all the discussion about rotor stall in a r22, do I have to worry about it with a governor.[/quote

You have to worry about it in most helicopters. The governor in Robinsons works fine. The danger is that if you get in really high density altitude, you can end up pulling excessive pitch because the engine is producing all the power it can. You can also get into a low RPM rotor stall in a botched auto, but that can happen in any helicopter.

A friend of mine told me dynamic rollovers happen alot in r22's. Here husband has a Bell 47, he says r 22's are death traps. Oh she also said when you roll over, you burn to death in 3 seconds. I like taking lessons but I don't like hearing negative stuff like this. Is she just naive about these helicopters? Or what!

Or what!

 

First of all, you are likely to walk away from most dynamic rollovers (unless you fall off a building, like the R44 in Indonesia). They do happen in training, which may be more CFI error than anything else.

 

People who have never flown Robinsons like to call them death traps. That's basically nonsense. Consider two things:

 

1. Robinson churns out something like 800 ships a year. Schweizer and Enstrom turn out dozens. If Robonsons are so bad, why do they outsell other piston helicopters by something like 50 to 1?

 

2. The leading cause of fatal accidents in Robinsons has nothing to do with their flight characteristics! It's flying into wires and other obstacles. The second biggest cause is wx related accidents.

 

Seems like everytime I get into a conversation with turbine pilots (after they see I fly a R22 and an R44), they tell me how they learned to fly in an R22, how they have a bunch of hours instructing in Robinsons, and how great they think they are.

 

Pay attention to the SFAR 73 awareness training and you will be fine. They're great helicopters!

[Gomer Pylot]

Robinsons do seem to have more rollover accidents than most other types, and those are mostly caused by low-time students touching down while moving sideways or backwards. It's not the fault of the helicopter, it's the fault of the pilot, and the reason the Robbie has more accidents is because it has more students and low-timers flying it. The Robinson also has a lot of accidents during autorotation practice, because it does LOTS of autorotations, most of them done by students, with relatively low-time CFIs monitoring them. You'll also find that low-end Cessnas have a lot of accidents, because they're flown by students and low-time pilots. Properly flown, Cessnas and Robinsons are perfectly fine aircraft. I see few, if any, cases of Robinsons burning, and I don't think they would burn any more easily than any other type, especially the Bell 47 with the gas tanks mounted where they are, easily punctured during any rollover.

 

Any aircraft can kill you if you can't control it, just as any car can kill you. If you're that scared of it, you need to quit right now, before you waste all your time and money.