franknyc Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) I only have a few hours and my cfi is willing to teach for $20-$25/hr if we buy the r-22/Schweizer 300 A 3-4 way partnership would be ideal. Edited April 19, 2008 by franknyc Quote
shotzy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) I only have a few hours and my cfi is willing to teach for $20-$25/hr if we buy the r-22. A 3-4 way partnership would be ideal. I might be interested but I have a couple of questions first. How much are you looking to put in towards the purchase. How much are the R-22's going for? Are you thinking new or used? Are you thinking leasing, financing or buying cash? What is the operating costs of flying the helicopter? ex gas per flight hour. Where would it be kept? Do you have to rent a spot? How much is maintenence and scheduled services? How much extra do you have available for unexpected repair costs. How much is insurance? Who name would it be in and how much liabilty do they have if one of the partners crashes and hurts someone? I am sure there are many more. But this is a good start for now. Edited April 18, 2008 by shotzy Quote
franknyc Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 I'm looking at used with approx. 1000-1200 left before overhaul. It can be kept in Farmingdale LI or NJ (close to the city) Price would be about 100-120K 4 way partnership would come out to 250-300 hours per partner, over 2 years. Hangar and insurance for two years would be approx. 45KMaintenance here and there about 10K re-sale of the craft would net us about 50K Fuel 15k Total cost would be: 190K. Minus resale: 140K This would come out to $116-$140 per hour. Quote
shotzy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 I'm looking at used with approx. 1000-1200 left before overhaul. It can be kept in Farmingdale LI or NJ (close to the city) Price would be about 100-120K Do you have one in mind or are you just estimating? 4 way partnership would come out to 250-300 hours per partner, over 2 years. Hangar and insurance for two years would be approx. 45KMaintenance here and there about 10K Have you contacted the insurance company and airports and gotten quotes? And what kind of liability does everyone have if one of the partners has an accident and kills someone. Hopefully wont happen but you never know. re-sale of the craft would net us about 50KFuel 15k At $3.50 a gallon that would net us ~ 4300 gallons. Whats is the gallon per hour rate on the R22? Total cost would be: 190K. Minus resale: 140KThis would come out to $116-$140 per hour. This assumes that we have nothing break or get damaged. While four guys with no flying experience learn to fly on it. Quote
freebird1401 Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Sounds like you researched some but where can you buy 100LL for $3.50 a gallon in NY? Last time I checked it was $5.15 and going up, at a fuel burn of 6gph @ 1200 hrs it's more like$37000 and change. Good luck Quote
freebird1401 Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 I was out at Republic airport last year and there were two NYPD officers, Tom and another fellow that had a R22 and a flight school, I dont know if they are still there but it may be cheaper to look into flying with them. Quote
franknyc Posted April 19, 2008 Author Posted April 19, 2008 After more research, I'm now leaning towards the Schweizer 300. Quote
me shakes fist Posted April 19, 2008 Posted April 19, 2008 I was out at Republic airport last year and there were two NYPD officers, Tom and another fellow that had a R22 and a flight school, I dont know if they are still there but it may be cheaper to look into flying with them.That would be Long Island Helicopter and the other fellow you speak of would be Dominick. He wasn't NYPD he was a State Trooper and he disappeared with my money as well as other students' and instructors' money. Needless to say Long Island Helicopter is no more. There is a new school there now, Republic Helicopter, that Tom is flying with. They've got a very nice new Beta II. Quote
franknyc Posted April 19, 2008 Author Posted April 19, 2008 That would be Long Island Helicopter and the other fellow you speak of would be Dominick. He wasn't NYPD he was a State Trooper and he disappeared with my money as well as other students' and instructors' money. Needless to say Long Island Helicopter is no more. There is a new school there now, Republic Helicopter, that Tom is flying with. They've got a very nice new Beta II. I tried looking them up. No luck. No website and they don't come up on any searches for "republic helicopter." IM/post the contact info if you have; thanks- Quote
jehh Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 Hangar and insurance for two years would be approx. 45K That is reasonable... if you're ok with Pathfinder insurance and its limits... Maintenance here and there about 10K For 1000 hours of flying? You must be joking... On average, you'll spend at least $30/hr for maintenance, more depending on what you break while flying it. One bad over speed can cost you $50K... re-sale of the craft would net us about 50K That is about right Fuel 15k For what? 1,000 hours of flying? The R-22 burns 8 gal/hr, at $6/gal that works out to $48/hr, or $48,000 for fuel In no case would $15K buy you gas for 1,000 hours of flying, unless you know where to get gas for $2/gal... Total cost would be: 190K. Minus resale: 140K This would come out to $116-$140 per hour. DOCs on an R-22 run about $120/hr, not including buying it, hangering it, or insuring it... You won't be flying it for 1,000 hours for anything close to those prices... If you fly 500 hours a year, budget $200/hr to fly it. Fly less and it costs more, but it doesn't get a lot cheaper flying more than 500 hours a year. Quote
franknyc Posted April 20, 2008 Author Posted April 20, 2008 That is reasonable... if you're ok with Pathfinder insurance and its limits... For 1000 hours of flying? You must be joking... On average, you'll spend at least $30/hr for maintenance, more depending on what you break while flying it. One bad over speed can cost you $50K... That is about right For what? 1,000 hours of flying? The R-22 burns 8 gal/hr, at $6/gal that works out to $48/hr, or $48,000 for fuel In no case would $15K buy you gas for 1,000 hours of flying, unless you know where to get gas for $2/gal... DOCs on an R-22 run about $120/hr, not including buying it, hangering it, or insuring it... You won't be flying it for 1,000 hours for anything close to those prices... If you fly 500 hours a year, budget $200/hr to fly it. Fly less and it costs more, but it doesn't get a lot cheaper flying more than 500 hours a year. It seems that my initial estimate were low on some end. The most frustrating part thus far has been trying to get insurance quotes (I'd like to have a few to choose from) only 1 company has decided to return my call. The insurance might be a bit cheaper on the Schweizer though. Quote
Crusty Old Dude Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 That is reasonable... if you're ok with Pathfinder insurance and its limits... For 1000 hours of flying? You must be joking... On average, you'll spend at least $30/hr for maintenance, more depending on what you break while flying it. One bad over speed can cost you $50K... That is about right For what? 1,000 hours of flying? The R-22 burns 8 gal/hr, at $6/gal that works out to $48/hr, or $48,000 for fuel In no case would $15K buy you gas for 1,000 hours of flying, unless you know where to get gas for $2/gal... DOCs on an R-22 run about $120/hr, not including buying it, hangering it, or insuring it... You won't be flying it for 1,000 hours for anything close to those prices... If you fly 500 hours a year, budget $200/hr to fly it. Fly less and it costs more, but it doesn't get a lot cheaper flying more than 500 hours a year.I'm glad this thread came up...I've heard Cessna types talk about doing this tandem thing, primarily in hopes of saving money in the long run. To me, it seems that every time I read this thread, more and more $$ comes up. I talked to Chris Gularte of Specialized Heli in Watsonville about this very topic. His statement: "Anyone who runs a small training business in helicopters knows the margins are about 3%." He went on to say any business model preaching more than a 3% margin over total expenses is not sustainable. So what does that mean to you? They are just keeping the lights on and doing something they love to do. Plus your flight school takes all the liability. I'd say reconsider the flight schools in your area. Quote
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