Safety Pilots

rotormandan · July 10, 2008

So a fellow instructor found an interesting idea on logging time as a safety pilot while surfing the net. I'm curious what y'all think.

So for the instrument currency requirements of 61.57 one must do 6 inst. appr. w/in the past 6 months in simulated inst. or actual. Part 91.109 says in order to so hood time in VFR conditions a safety pilot (PIC current in category, class, and type if req.) must occupy the other seat. 61.55 states that if acting as a safety pilot to meet 91.109 req. you may log SIC time.

Here's where it gets tricky:

Part 1.1 PIC def. states that PIC is final authority for safety and operation of flight.

Part 61.51(e) states that to you may log PIC when you are the "sole manipulator of the controls."

Does this mean that while the pilot is under the hood the both pilots may log PIC?

Pilot: Is sole manipulator of the controls.

Safety Pilot: Is responsible for the safety of the flight.

Assuming both pilots have a private and are PIC current in category, class, and type if required(R22 or R44 SFAR included), this seems like a great way for instrument students to share the cost of flt. time while both logging PIC cross country time.

I intend to ask our examiner and give the local FSDO a call when I get a chance but I'm curious as to what y'all think.

Gomer Pylot · July 10, 2008

You have to decide before the flight who the PIC is going to be. The PIC must be qualified and current in the aircraft in order to act in that capacity. So in theory, if both pilots are current and qualified in the aircraft, then the safety pilot can be the PIC, the final authority for everything concerning the flight, and the pilot getting currency only flies the aircraft, and can log pilot time while manipulating the controls. This has been discussed ad nauseum on various internet forums. I think it's a dodgy way to build time, and I've never done it, but it appears to be legal. It's your logbook.

jehh · July 12, 2008

It is perfectly legal, and I don't think it is dodgy at all...

The primary issue is that you can only do so much of it before your flying skill shows it... If you have 5,000 hours, of which 200 hours is safety pilot time, no one will notice or care. If you have 500 hours and 200 hours is safety pilot time, it will show up in your skill level (or lack of such)

Fly Safe!

Jeff · July 12, 2008

If you are a safety pilot and have agreed to be the PIC--BEWARE! You are the PIC, which means YOU are responsible. If your buddy flying under the hood violates airspace or commits some other sort of infraction of the FAR's, then YOU will take the heat for it. In my opinion, you are much better off to let the pilot under the hood be the PIC, and you just sit there and watch out for other aircraft. You can still log the time as SIC, Helicopter, Total Time, XC (if it's XC), etc.; but your only responsibility is to watch out for traffic. If you're an instructor, that's a different story.

~Jeff

jehh · July 13, 2008

Jeff,

The only issue with your suggestion is that should something happen, it will be up to the FAA inspector to determine who was PIC. Verbal agreements are of limited value to them.

Besides, it hardly matters, they can violate all the pilots with access to the cockpit if they so choose, so you might as well get the PIC time.

Jeff · July 13, 2008

Jeff,

The only issue with your suggestion is that should something happen, it will be up to the FAA inspector to determine who was PIC. Verbal agreements are of limited value to them.

Besides, it hardly matters, they can violate all the pilots with access to the cockpit if they so choose, so you might as well get the PIC time.

I read an article in AOPA pilot recently about that very thing, except I think the NTSB had something to do with it (not sure). In the article, there were two pilots in the cockpit. One was the PIC and the other wasn't. At some point in the flight, the PIC violated airspace or a clearance or something to the point the FAA took enforcement action against them. It was determined that the non-PIC pilot at one point during the flight had used the flight controls, and he was determined to be the PIC. There's more to the story, but that's a brief summation of it.

The point obviously is to CYA.

~Jeff

rotormandan · July 13, 2008

Definately a good point. Might be a good idea to make sure your able to be PIC even if you're planning on SIC in case FAA gets involved. Making sure that as a safety pilot you understand the instruments enough to know where you are (bring a sectional) so you don't bust airspace and that you understand radios enough so clearances don't get busted. Another thought to that is if one is going to log PIC they should be able to perform those duties, including your own preflight as well, and being profieient in the other seat so in case something does happen and he/she needs to take the controls they should have the ability to control any manouver in that seat as well. Might be smart to get a couple hours in the other seat before agreeing to fly that seat as a safety pilot.

rotormandan · July 13, 2008

I think that this would be a great cheap way for someone to meet those 50 pic x-country req for an inst rating. Or a way to build time to meet the 200 hr sfar req to instruct or the 300 hr insurance req. I'm sure if one just completed their training at a school then they probably know someone else attending the instrument course at that school and could offer to pay 1/2 price.